Spoken like a mature individual. I whole-heartedly agree with Rick on this one.
Should Non-adults be allowed to own/care for OW species
- Thread starter T_DORKUS
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Oh, wow - I'm not gonna read through this whole thread to put my two cents in based of the input of others but I'll just answer the title question. I'm sorry if my post matches any one of the 11 pages of posts.
I personally believe that it's possible that minors can care for OW species, it's really based on experience and not age. Take, for example, the program I'm working on setting up at a local Boys & Girls Club - I'm trying to get an arachnology/entomology program set up so as to give the youth something to do other than get in trouble in a town already biased against the youth and tear down stereotypes and phobias. Said program will not just be aimed at teens but the expected draw will be adolescents who may already be interested in the hobby and this will be the best way for them to develop husbandry skills and respect for the animals that they come in contact with. Point is, with proper education and guidance, I feel, that minors are perfectly capable of learning to be a responsible OW keeper. Of course, it's much like selling a case of beer to an adult at the liquor store - if you don't know them personally, you don't know if they are gonna drink that case on the drive home and then kill someone in an accident but once you've sold them that beer, it's up to them to be responsible with it. I feel like I'm rambling - this comes from the fact that I'm using the laptop in the invert room so I'm under IR light and my mind's not really focused on the computer. Anyways, my opinion, for what it's worth.
I personally believe that it's possible that minors can care for OW species, it's really based on experience and not age. Take, for example, the program I'm working on setting up at a local Boys & Girls Club - I'm trying to get an arachnology/entomology program set up so as to give the youth something to do other than get in trouble in a town already biased against the youth and tear down stereotypes and phobias. Said program will not just be aimed at teens but the expected draw will be adolescents who may already be interested in the hobby and this will be the best way for them to develop husbandry skills and respect for the animals that they come in contact with. Point is, with proper education and guidance, I feel, that minors are perfectly capable of learning to be a responsible OW keeper. Of course, it's much like selling a case of beer to an adult at the liquor store - if you don't know them personally, you don't know if they are gonna drink that case on the drive home and then kill someone in an accident but once you've sold them that beer, it's up to them to be responsible with it. I feel like I'm rambling - this comes from the fact that I'm using the laptop in the invert room so I'm under IR light and my mind's not really focused on the computer. Anyways, my opinion, for what it's worth.
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I came in this thread expecting to vote no, but then I read some of the comments. That got me to thinking back to when I was a kid and dealing with snakes. By the time I was 17, I was bored with the reading part of snake keeping because it was so rare to read about something I didn't already know. By 17 I had already caught a few venomous snakes like a Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen, Sistrurus catenatus catenatus, and Crotalus horridus. I see no reason why a kid into spiders like I was snakes, shouldn't be allowed to own a OW. My vote is yes.
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I feel age has nothing to do with maturity, and many minors are far more capable, intelligent, knowledgable, responsible than adults far older than them. My brothers are more mature than most adults I meet on a daily basis
I wouldn't trust some adults with a common pet like a cat or dog, much less something venemous.
However, there's a limit. Obviously a 5 year old shouldn't have a pokie or H. mac. At least shouldn't be solely responsible for it's care. Although my coworker's nephew goes HUNTING with his 5 year old son!!! Seriously, if some people can trust a child with a freaking rifle, who's to say what they can or can't have or do???? Quite honestly I feel trusting your kid around guns at that age is irresponsible as well....
I wouldn't trust some adults with a common pet like a cat or dog, much less something venemous.
However, there's a limit. Obviously a 5 year old shouldn't have a pokie or H. mac. At least shouldn't be solely responsible for it's care. Although my coworker's nephew goes HUNTING with his 5 year old son!!! Seriously, if some people can trust a child with a freaking rifle, who's to say what they can or can't have or do???? Quite honestly I feel trusting your kid around guns at that age is irresponsible as well....
It all boils down to education. Whether we are dealing with dogs and cats, or tarantulas and guns? Seriously, it's not a trust issue as much as an education issue. If youth are well informed and educated, then there really are no problems. If people do not teach their kids, then there are definitely going to be some issues, trust being one of them.
Anyone who is compitent enough to properly care for a OW species, should have the right to. However, I believe that a adult/guardian should be required to purchase any T irregardless.
I also support that this guy should not touch any T, period ------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAAOb...eature=related
Though, you have to admire how calm he was when he was bit..
I also support that this guy should not touch any T, period ------> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAAOb...eature=related
Though, you have to admire how calm he was when he was bit..
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Ah yes, I remember this old thread.
I still firmly believe that it should not be about age, but judged by the amount of experience someone has.
And by the way, this OW list has grown to 4 large adult female pokies and a large female and a relatively large colony of OBTs.
Go me!
This made me reconsider my point of view.
To all those that voted, "MAYBE"...the law see's things in black and white, not shades of grey.
I was talking to an online dealer about a well known T experts 16 yo daughter that got bit by an adult pokie and spent a week in the hospital. 2 years later she still has some nerve damage in her hand.
I was talking to an online dealer about a well known T experts 16 yo daughter that got bit by an adult pokie and spent a week in the hospital. 2 years later she still has some nerve damage in her hand.
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No
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You don't keep up with American laws, do you? There are a LOT of laws that are "gray". A lot of laws are not clear and left for local law enforcement to "interpret". Even though I voted yes, I fully understand the "maybe" vote.
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The topic post, and the topic question ask nothing of laws. Hence why I voted "maybe." Age and maturity are different, but maturity does correlate with age (IMO) that is--the older someone is, the less likely they are immature. So, speaking as a general rule--your "average kid" should not have an OW T. Exceptions are commonplace however, so ultimately it depends on the individual kid.
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depends on what one says own/care is...
my answer is given in the following scenario:
An 8 year old talks mom who spoils the kid rotten into buying this 'pretty blue tarantula' (yes, a friggin' cobalt blue, pretty much the most aggressive and poisonous old world tarantula out there - ya gotta love Burma) and takes it home, gets nailed by it after school while mom and dad are still at work for the next three hours, let's say the thing dumped a full load into the poor kid, and due to small body mass size and perhaps succeptability to venom (be it bee sting, etc.), stops breathing after a short stint of dibilitating pain. Say he/she was too young to know the danger and do 911, and the 15 year old baby sitter is too busy with the cell phone to notice anything, especially with the TV on and playing with the ipod. OK, so nobody in the uSofA has YET been know to die from a bite from a tarantula, most probably because we have a robust medical system, but others in the world have - and now we've just added our federation of States to the list...
OK, enough with the scare tactics - the answer is NEVER without adult supervision. I mean the cage is one that is able to have a Yale lock on it, and the kid can only watch the critter while the adults are away and have absolutely no access to the key which is kept with the adults at all times. The cage is unlocked ONLY when an adult is there to supervise the feeding, watering, etc. So, the kid 'owns' the thing, and technically 'cares' for it, but in reality this is a cop out as the first time the 'pet' needs something more (bad molt, etc.), it's off to the vet with it - so WHO is actually 'caring' for it?
Final comment: I have nothing but sympathy for the old world tarantula that gets 'owned' by some child that is still figuring out the meaning of life.
We find consulations, we learn tricks with which we deceive ourselves, but the essential thing - the way - we do not find. Listen to the river...
my answer is given in the following scenario:
An 8 year old talks mom who spoils the kid rotten into buying this 'pretty blue tarantula' (yes, a friggin' cobalt blue, pretty much the most aggressive and poisonous old world tarantula out there - ya gotta love Burma) and takes it home, gets nailed by it after school while mom and dad are still at work for the next three hours, let's say the thing dumped a full load into the poor kid, and due to small body mass size and perhaps succeptability to venom (be it bee sting, etc.), stops breathing after a short stint of dibilitating pain. Say he/she was too young to know the danger and do 911, and the 15 year old baby sitter is too busy with the cell phone to notice anything, especially with the TV on and playing with the ipod. OK, so nobody in the uSofA has YET been know to die from a bite from a tarantula, most probably because we have a robust medical system, but others in the world have - and now we've just added our federation of States to the list...
OK, enough with the scare tactics - the answer is NEVER without adult supervision. I mean the cage is one that is able to have a Yale lock on it, and the kid can only watch the critter while the adults are away and have absolutely no access to the key which is kept with the adults at all times. The cage is unlocked ONLY when an adult is there to supervise the feeding, watering, etc. So, the kid 'owns' the thing, and technically 'cares' for it, but in reality this is a cop out as the first time the 'pet' needs something more (bad molt, etc.), it's off to the vet with it - so WHO is actually 'caring' for it?
Final comment: I have nothing but sympathy for the old world tarantula that gets 'owned' by some child that is still figuring out the meaning of life.
We find consulations, we learn tricks with which we deceive ourselves, but the essential thing - the way - we do not find. Listen to the river...
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I voted maybe as well......
I could see a teenager 14-17.....bein' resposible enough....possibly....
An old tarantula buddy of mine raised and bred many thousands of T's.....and he helped me get over my fears { Thanx - Henry }, and his young son.....16
@ the time....would Hold suntigers and Ornamentals sometimes........neither were Ever bitten.......very educated though!
My daughter is almost 10, and she loves the Ornamental beauties......But prefers handling all her T's....mostly Mexican varieties.......I raised Her to respect and Not fear all Creatures......her 3rd word was gecko {"gecca"}.
We have started again w/ a P. Metallica to raise-up.....Mom made us part with Ornata.............Jason
I could see a teenager 14-17.....bein' resposible enough....possibly....
An old tarantula buddy of mine raised and bred many thousands of T's.....and he helped me get over my fears { Thanx - Henry }, and his young son.....16
@ the time....would Hold suntigers and Ornamentals sometimes........neither were Ever bitten.......very educated though!
My daughter is almost 10, and she loves the Ornamental beauties......But prefers handling all her T's....mostly Mexican varieties.......I raised Her to respect and Not fear all Creatures......her 3rd word was gecko {"gecca"}.
We have started again w/ a P. Metallica to raise-up.....Mom made us part with Ornata.............Jason
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It ALL depends on maturity, as someone else said.
As for the 'minors are more susceptible to venom' arguement - it's not age that depicts that, it is size. You can have a very large 12 year old, or a very small adult... either way, it's the size of the body and the immune system attached to it that determine how badly someone is affected by a bite. Turning 18 and becoming an adult does not magically give you any sort of resistence to venom.
Animals have been my passion since I could lift my head up enough to see the world around me. I got my first T as a birthday present when I was 13. Proper research, proper care, and proper respect means I did my best to ensure my safety and the safety of Ituri.
I know PLENTY of 20- and 30-somethings that I won't let anywhere near my Ts because the maturity level to have respect and caution is just not present, nor is the desire to listen to the information needed to keep them and the Ts safe... whereas I find curious children are MUCH more apt to listening to the warnings I give them in regards to being around the tarantulas.
As for the 'minors are more susceptible to venom' arguement - it's not age that depicts that, it is size. You can have a very large 12 year old, or a very small adult... either way, it's the size of the body and the immune system attached to it that determine how badly someone is affected by a bite. Turning 18 and becoming an adult does not magically give you any sort of resistence to venom.
Animals have been my passion since I could lift my head up enough to see the world around me. I got my first T as a birthday present when I was 13. Proper research, proper care, and proper respect means I did my best to ensure my safety and the safety of Ituri.
I know PLENTY of 20- and 30-somethings that I won't let anywhere near my Ts because the maturity level to have respect and caution is just not present, nor is the desire to listen to the information needed to keep them and the Ts safe... whereas I find curious children are MUCH more apt to listening to the warnings I give them in regards to being around the tarantulas.
my answer is given in the following scenario:
An 8 year old talks mom who spoils the kid rotten into buying this 'pretty blue tarantula' (yes, a friggin' cobalt blue, pretty much the most aggressive and poisonous old world tarantula out there - ya gotta love Burma) and takes it home, gets nailed by it after school while mom and dad are still at work for the next three hours, let's say the thing dumped a full load into the poor kid, and due to small body mass size and perhaps succeptability to venom (be it bee sting, etc.), stops breathing after a short stint of dibilitating pain. Say he/she was too young to know the danger and do 911, and the 15 year old baby sitter is too busy with the cell phone to notice anything, especially with the TV on and playing with the ipod. OK, so nobody in the uSofA has YET been know to die from a bite from a tarantula, most probably because we have a robust medical system, but others in the world have - and now we've just added our federation of States to the list...
OK, enough with the scare tactics - the answer is NEVER without adult supervision. I mean the cage is one that is able to have a Yale lock on it, and the kid can only watch the critter while the adults are away and have absolutely no access to the key which is kept with the adults at all times. The cage is unlocked ONLY when an adult is there to supervise the feeding, watering, etc. So, the kid 'owns' the thing, and technically 'cares' for it, but in reality this is a cop out as the first time the 'pet' needs something more (bad molt, etc.), it's off to the vet with it - so WHO is actually 'caring' for it?
Final comment: I have nothing but sympathy for the old world tarantula that gets 'owned' by some child that is still figuring out the meaning of life.
We find consulations, we learn tricks with which we deceive ourselves, but the essential thing - the way - we do not find. Listen to the river...
Just a couple things here, you have proof of the deaths due to tarantula bites, since you made note of that.
Secondly, I'm still trying to figure out the meaning of life, and I'm retired.
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Absolutely. I think P. murinus is the best beginner T on the market. Indestructible. Easy.
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read my signature Im 12 I have no OW t's yet but I know I could care for one I get bit too bad I'll live.
I don't think a 6 year old should have one because of lack of knowledge but most kids my age would have no problem caring for an OW if they weren't such chickens;P
I don't think a 6 year old should have one because of lack of knowledge but most kids my age would have no problem caring for an OW if they weren't such chickens;P
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Be pretty hard explain how a minor got tagged by an OW when you took him/her to the ER.
I am a parent and I don't want to have to do that.
As adults,we are responsible for our own actions.......where minors are concerned......IT is a bit different.
If a minor got tagged by a pokie,lightfooti or S.calceatum......imagine how impressed the doctor treating him/her would be.
Paul
I am a parent and I don't want to have to do that.
As adults,we are responsible for our own actions.......where minors are concerned......IT is a bit different.
If a minor got tagged by a pokie,lightfooti or S.calceatum......imagine how impressed the doctor treating him/her would be.
Paul
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