shiping venoms snakes

[green_bottle_04]

While that may be true...its still illegal. Why is it acceptable to ship a Deathstalker but not a Copperhead? Could it be because the invert world is too cheap to spring for legal shipping? Me thinks its something along those lines.

If you don't believe me....put up an ad for some inverts here....then try to charge $40-60 for overnight shipping and see how many prospective buyers you get.

i totally agree! a Deathstalker will kill you a hell of a lot quicker than a copperhead (unless you are allergic to the copperhead venom which is very rare) ive been tagged by copperheads and id take one (or more) of those bites over a deathstalker sting ANY DAY.

 

[Zarathustra]

Its also illegal to ship venomous invertebrates such as Tarantulas and Scorpions via the USPS, but that doesn't stop every single person on this website from doing it.

Ha ha, touche!!

 

[Beardo]

The disparity between the herp hobby and invert hobby when it comes to breaking federal law is pretty surprising.

If I posted on a reputable reptile message baord that I shipped a Copperhead via the USPS, I'd get a verbal beatdown in a split second.....yet if I post on this message board that I shipped an A. australis via the USPS nobody bats an eyelash.

 

[Zarathustra]

The disparity between the herp hobby and invert hobby when it comes to breaking federal law is pretty surprising.

If I posted on a reputable reptile message baord that I shipped a Copperhead via the USPS, I'd get a verbal beatdown in a split second.....yet if I post on this message board that I shipped an A. australis via the USPS nobody bats an eyelash.

What I find amusing is that I would bet the same people that would not care if you sent an A. australis through the mail would also give you a verbal beat down for sending a Copperhead through the USPS. Some people would not dream of missing a ride on the moral high horse.

 

[SPJ]

Well, I can say that Botar by 8's does not ship USPS and his shipping is igher than what I have seen but I would much rather pay (and did) the extra than have it shipped via USPS.

 

[Beardo]

Botar does offer USPS shipping as an option though. (nothing against him of course, he is the best of the best IMO....plus he'll beat me up if I say anything bad about him lol)

You are very much in the minority in the invert hobby, Steve in regards to being willing to pay more for shipping.

 

[David_F]

You sold some Tityus sp. scorpions recently didn't you, David? Did the person who bought them pay for Delta shipping? Did you insist that they pay for Delta shipping? If the scorps were sent that way then hats off to both of you for following the letter of the law but if the scorpions were shipped through any other method I wonder how you feel justified pointing fingers and calling names.

I'm not trying to attack you or put you on the defensive. I've dealt with you before and know you're a good guy. I'm just really kind of curious.

As far as the legality of shipping hot animals through the various methods, I think it is very possible to ship any animal (well, within reason of course...no lions at the local P.O. ) through any carrier in a safe manner. It's important to follow the laws, I guess, but sometimes being "cheap" can be justified.

 

[Beardo]

David, I am not pointing fingers or calling names. I am just stating facts.

I have used USPS to ship inverts before. I no longer keep inverts though and will not be shipping any of them though any carrier. I've just always wondered why the invert hobby finds it acceptable to break the law when the reptile hobby does not....I am not making any judgements, just thinking out loud.

How about you? Have you used Delta? Do you follow the Lacey Act? If not...why?

 

[Tleilaxu]

In my opinion its the risk factor its much easier to contain an invert than a snake. I have never had any scorpion escapes but when I put a snake in that exact same container that snake wasa gone in an hour... Also as I stated earlier a majority of the inverts shipped are unable to kill someone unless they are allergic and its not worth the hassel of filling out all that paper work just to ship P. imperator or G. rosea. And besides its not like they check the boxes anyway save your self the hassel and worry and just keep it on the hush hush. And no I am not planning on shipping anything in the near future so its a moot point for me, just stating what I feel.

 

[Beardo]

In my opinion its the risk factor its much easier to contain an invert than a snake. I have never had any scorpion escapes but when I put a snake in that exact same container that snake wasa gone in an hour... Also as I stated earlier a majority of the inverts shipped are unable to kill someone unless they are allergic and its not worth the hassel of filling out all that paper work just to ship P. imperator or G. rosea.

I definitely see your points, and I agree with them. Unfortunately the powers that be do not. Whether you're shipping an Emperor Scorpion or a Corn Snake, its still the same....does anyone ever think about the possible negative consequences of illegal shipping?

I am not trying to "take sides" here or stir the proverbial pot....just making constructive conversation.

 

[Tleilaxu]

I definitely see your points, and I agree with them. Unfortunately the powers that be do not. Whether you're shipping an Emperor Scorpion or a Corn Snake, its still the same....does anyone ever think about the possible negative consequences of illegal shipping?

I am not trying to "take sides" here or stir the proverbial pot....just making constructive conversation.

Well to be honest since I don't ship the thought as never occured to me. I don't see how you would be found out unless the animal in question escaped, and that would be due to improper packing. In your opinion what are the negitive consequences? Other than fines? Obviously if some got hurt or killed by a hot animal, thats one thing, (And no small matter) but a corn, or emperor scorpion.

 

[David_F]

How about you? Have you used Delta? Do you follow the Lacey Act? If not...why?

Hmmm...how to answer these questions.

Okay, if I were to ship a "dangerous" invert then no, I probably wouldn't follow the various laws. I just think that it is possible to ship these kinds of animals, and probably others, through other methods just as safely. Let's face it; when you're ordering a $25 animal, whether it's an A. australis or a S. m. barbouri (Hope I spelled that right. Been a while since I've seen it written.), the air freight fees just aren't worth it. Now I'm not saying it's okay to start packing hots badly and shipping them through regular mail. That, I know, would be insane. I do think, though, that if an animal is packed properly then it doesn't matter what method you ship.

I do think that those exorbitant fees deter a lot of people from ordering animals they shouldn't have in the first place though so maybe they're good for one thing.

And, since it's taking me so long to post this reply..... I agree with Tleilaxu. Risk is a big factor. A snake is a bigger risk than an invert in most cases.

 

[Beardo]

I wasn't trying to single you out, man....just adding to the discussion. You and I are on the same page and I agree with you as well.

I can guarantee that I can ship any (feasible) animal, snake or invert to someone successfully regardless of the carrier. Will I do it? Of course not lol. Can't enjoy your animals behind bars lol!

 

[SPJ]

There are ways to secure a snake where it could not possibly escape.
Put it in a snake bag and tie it off, then place that in a deli cup or other container, seal that, and then place it in the styro line box, and secure tape up the box. But then all the carrier has to do is crush the box and all your carefull packing goes out the window.

I have never had a snake escape in over 5 years of shipping them.
I did however have Fed Ex give me a problem last year. It seems that some employees will not touch the box when they see what is written on the outside. The driver wouldn't pick up the box and put it on the truck at the hub because he read that it had a snake in it.
I called my rep, the manager of the hub, just about everyone possible and was told that even though I have approval to ship snakes, that does not mean the driver has to accept the package.

My customer had to drive 90 minutes to the hub and pick up the snake in person. The driver wouldn't deliver it and no one else could (or would) since it was his route.
Thankfully it was a ball python in the box but can you imagine what would have happened had it been a hot?

No matter what you prepare for, something screwy can happen. A box gets crushed, someone gets freaked out by the labeling, etc and next thing you know, packages get opened to spot check what's in them.
Even though it costs more to ship certain ways, it is worth it IMO. If a scorp, a T, or a snake gets loose, the government will respond with more regulation which will negatively affect all of us.

 

[Spider-Man v2.0]

im not going to atempt it, so im gonna just for get it since this guy who hass them is not responding at all to my questions

 

[Taceas]

As a breeder and shipper of cornsnakes David is right, anyone who would claim to ship snakes (or any reptile for that matter) via USPS would get his behind handed to him on a plate by the general population. It's illegal and irresponsible. But yet, when we ship our inverts, no one bats an eyelash when they're shipped USPS. Why are inverts above the law?

Granted I can see the valid points about spiders not breaking out of a plastic container and foam and cardboard, but I've seen some pretty mangled boxes in my shipping experiences. Anything can happen when we least expect it. Tarantulas and scorpions can bite and sting and some people may be allergic or the specimen's venom may be potentially potent or deadly.

I will be honest, I enjoy the lower pricing scheme more with USPS than with Fedex/UPS when I purchase my tarantulas, but I still feel dishonest because I know unless you have a medical lab certification, its illegal to send venomous arachnids/insects.

In some instances I have requested they be sent via Fedex, mostly due to weather conditions and $20 more for shipping overnight is less important to me than a $175 Pokie arriving safe and sound.

I am a certified shipper through Fedex to legally ship my snakes through them, and I couldn't be happier. Yes it did take a few months to get it (I seem to be the extreme case) but it was well worth it. Now I can label my boxes correctly and not have to be vague about it.

All of my reptiles arrive via Fedex, I personally don't entrust them to any other company, even if we didn't have the ability to be a certified shipper. UPS has a history of opening up boxes in transit, USPS is unpredictable with delivery, DHL is Hell's shipping company around here.

As for the original poster, I can tell you he hasn't done one lick of research into the matter. And based on his typing skills you can imagine the Google responses he got back.

Guessing is NOT knowing when it comes to rules and regulations, especially on something that could easily turn into personal injury or legal troubles. As well, if I'm not mistaken, I think any state prohibits the ownership of hots unless you're 18 or older.

While I don't own any hots, I admire the people who do it legally and manage it responsibly. It's irresponsible and ignorant people like you who make the government come down on our hobbies because they couldn't do all of the research and be properly prepared. Like the idiot in Indianapolis who got strangled by his pet boa while trying to medicate it by himself. The vet told him not to be alone when he did it, welp here's a Darwin Award for ya! And now the state is trying to make ALL exotic reptiles illegal to own or possess.

Are you going to have the expensive anti-venin stocked and ready to give yourself a shot if you need to? Is your hospital going to have it stocked? Do you have to have a state permit? What do your parents have to say about it? Et cetera ad nauseam.

Please do the following in this order:

1) Grow up!
2) Learn some danged manners & maturity! (MushroomSpore had ALL rights to say what he did and wasn't being rude.)
3) Find the damned spell-check button or learn how to SPELL! You are a shining case of our screwed up educational system. It takes me more time to decipher what the heck you've typed than it would have taken you to write it correctly in the first place. ALL of the letters of the alphabet are on the keyboard, utilize them for goodness sakes!

 

[Beardo]

Like the idiot in Indianapolis who got strangled by his pet boa while trying to medicate it by himself. The vet told him not to be alone when he did it, welp here's a Darwin Award for ya!

I had not heard of this occurrence, although it does sound somewhat similar to what happened to a guy that I personally knew named Patrick Von Allmen who lived in Southern Indiana and was killed by his pet snake....except in Patrick's case the snake was a Reticulated Python and he was no idiot....he was a good snake keeper who made a big mistake.

BTW, great post Misty!

 

[SPJ]

He is right. A guy tried to medicate a large angry boa and it wrapped him.
People seem to forget these "tame" animals can kill you if any mistake is made.

I've taken in rescues and given shots of baytril as well as dosing panacur and I can tell you, no matter what the snake, I have someone there with me.
You never know what can happen.

As far as the OP having AV on hand, I think that is about a 0% chance.

You need to be part of an AV bank or have some serious cash (and the proper FDA approval) to store your own. Not too mention some ER doctors don't like to administer AV you bring in from "home".

Hots need to be respected. They are not something you just jump into keeping because they are "cool".
When I kept them, they were used in educational presentations. Now that I have kids, I got rid of them. Even with secure caging and a dedicated hot room, I did not want to take the risk any longer with kids in the house and I had been working with them for quite a while.
I realized that my experience and security precautions meant nothing when it came to curious kids.