she did not come out for 2 months ...so i dug her and i discovered a big girl!

Buckwheat

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
82
I read so much about defensive tarantulas and aggressive tarantulas. My feelings were that these two terms are frequently misused in descriptive actions of certain mygalomorphe species. Two that come to mind are posts concerning Asian species and African species. Again, not all but some of these seem to generate more posts than others.

Tarantulas as we all know are as individual and diverse as any other living species in the animal kingdom and it seems no two are alike. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. But when it comes to the term "defensive" or, "aggressive" I feel that one must differentiate between the two in terms of what it means in regards to behavior of a particular tarantula and what brings on that response from an animal whether in captivity or a free agent living in the wild.

First understand the technical difference between the terms. Defensive is defined as meaning: to protect, or protective, to preserve. Additionally, it conveys an attitude, a position of defense. Prepared to withstand attack.

The term aggressive can be defined by the terms, offensive or combative as in provoked or unprovoked attack. The term can also mean warlike and combative. It also is defined as to be inclined to hostile behavior and unprovoked hostilities..The launching of attacks!

It is important to communicate with proper terminology when assessing the response that a certain stimulus evokes from a tarantula in captivity. I say "in captivity" because fewer hobbyists travel to, or live in areas where wild populations are located. I am one who has.

It is amazing the response that can be generated by certain species in captivity. I personally have never seen a full-grown King baboon but I do keep H. Lividum, which according to several posts on various boards claim it to be a demon along with other colorful descriptions that are used.

My Cobalt blue seems quite content in its enclosure. How do I know that? Because I have never seen a provoked nor an unprovoked threat response from her.

Additionally I also know that she is well within her natural comfort parameters. That being a fairly constant 75 to 79 degree room temp during the day falling to around 70 to 74 at night. Her day/night cycles are within natural parameters as well. At least for where she lives now, which is with me in my comfort zones.
She does not wander the parameter of her enclosure and generally spends her time either perfecting her burrow or sitting in the entrance. I feel those are generally good indicators that she is at least not feeling threatened in that space.

But to put the terms in question in a more understandable context perhaps if you imagined a spider 40 times your own size getting too close to your personal space would you feel aggressive or defensive? I think the proper response would be one of a defensive posture. You certainly would not run straight into the jaws of death with an aggressive frontal assault. I know this is very simplistic approach but this isn't meant to be a study of terminology but rather a clarification of two different terms as they apply to responses in captive tarantulas.

Lastly let me say that this post is not meant to generate deep conversations about terminology but just to bring to light the difference between the two and how they might apply in a more accurate way to the views in posts by hobbyists about their favorite wild things. This could also apply to any captive creature.

I do not think tarantulas in the pet trade should be coined as aggressive many times. I think defensive would be a much more accurate description of the well known threat posture. It is not an aggressive display but a self-preservation attempt. If that does not work of course then an aggressive attack could also be viewed as a last ditch effort to defend or preserve its own self either in the confinements of an enclosure or on it's own turf in the wild.

Also I might add that an intrusion into the personal space of any wild animal could certainly prompt an aggressive attack upon the intruder which would only be natural. There is one last wonderful thing about such responses by captive tarantulas and that is that such a response show that indeed that animal still has "wild" within itself. An attitude, a willingness to survive..And that is a very healthy sign that animal has what it takes to live out the full measure of it's god given life under sometimes unnatural or harsh conditions.

Just a thought.
 

Mattyb

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 28, 2004
Messages
2,316
Everyone already summed up on what not to do....i just figured I'd let ya'll know that i agree.
 

Mattyb

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 28, 2004
Messages
2,316
Uh, what?



Listen, all that stuff does is irritate her.



Oh, you again.

No, that's not aggression. If someone broke down your door, destroyed your home, and poked and prodded at you...resisting them would be an act of aggression or defense?

That is a perfect example of a tarantula being defensive about its home/territory. If the spider came out of the burrow, climbed out of the cage, and chased you around the house, then it would be aggressive.

Do your homework, young lady.

Also, spare me the definitions and extracts and all your other 'evidence'. Instead, run a search on all the threads that have already addressed aggressive vs. defensive and spare us your misinformation.

Very well said.
:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship:
 

jeff1962

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
469
I have a king baboon that I see all the time. Its all in the way you house an obligate burrower that makes all the difference. Mine is in a tall narrow storage container that she has dug several burrows in. Regardless of were she is I can see her. Lateley she spends alot of time at the mouth of one of her burrows. I love watching her feed I drop a cricket in and she stalks it before she pounces it. I used to be hesitant to buy burrowers but she has become one of my favorite spiders.
 

DooM_ShrooM

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
115
i would not dig it if there was a whole in the fist place but there was none...so i got worried that she was maybe caved in......and BTW she molted feb 1 philippine date... losing a leg (but a successful molt) because it did not develop well ...(i used tweezers to remove the severed limb from the old skin and it was small and not that hairy).....and the enclosure stink.....(maybe because i fed her with a lizard.....but that lizard food was about 1 and a half months ago and its still stinks to this very day).....well thanks for the info....dont get mad at me ...coz the enclosure really stink....and if you were hear you would dig it up coz 1 there are no wholes present which made the idea of caving in and 2 the enclosure is filled with miasma(smell of death) maybe because of the lizard food:D but for the crap that i said about tapping the enclosure sorry for the lack of common sense coz sometimes my common sense is in its day off.....:?:?
 

Roski

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
562
Even if a clump of that substrate had "caved in," she would be more than capable of digging her way around/out of it.

It sounds like she was sealing herself off to molt :wall:. Plugging up the burrow is tarantula-speak for "Do not disturb." While a T is molting it is virtually immobile, extremely soft, and completely defenseless. This sealing off of behavior is meant to sequester her vulnerable body from the outside world and any passing animal that can easily hurt or kill her. It is actually more dangerous to dig up a sealed off spider, because you might unwittingly interrupt her during the molting process, and end up losing more than just a leg. I know it is hard at times, but your best bet will always be to just let her do her own thing.

Lizard feeders sound extremely unpleasant and is not even all that good for the T. Do you have crickets or cockroaches available to you?
 
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jayjay01

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
0
Even if a clump of that substrate had "caved in," she would be more than capable of digging her way around/out of it.

It sounds like she was sealing herself off to molt :wall:. Plugging up the burrow is tarantula-speak for "Do not disturb." While a T is molting it is virtually immobile, extremely soft, and completely defenseless. This sealing off of behavior is meant to sequester her vulnerable body from the outside world and any passing animal that can easily hurt or kill her. It is actually more dangerous to dig up a sealed off spider, because you might unwittingly interrupt her during the molting process, and end up losing more than just a leg.

Feeding lizards sounds extremely unpleasant and is not even all that good for the T. Do you have crickets or cockroaches available to you?
im no expert on t's as its a new hobie to me but even i would not disturb it that has burried its self it would have burried its self for its own reasons knockin on the tank would cause it stress and hif some one kept knocking on my door that was bigger then me and more scarey looking then me id go into hiding, my t is starting to burrow but im just leaving her be i drop a few meal worms and crickets in their make sure she has water and leave her to it its her home not mine.........
 

curiousme

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
1,661
A tarantula would be able to dig its way out of a collapsed burrow. I mean it dug the burrow to begin with, right? ;)


(jayjay01) please use punctuation at least. That run on sentence was hard to decipher.:)
 

DooM_ShrooM

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
115
the store said that they are out of crickets,roaches and meal worms so they sold me 5 lizard feeders so i said ok(better than nothing) then when i started feeding her lizard her cage stink like dead lizard......so i stopped feeding her.....then a week later i bought crickets and feed her yet the stink still there.....so if she dug under ground and dont leave any holes and all soil no holes ......then i got the idea the t is dead because it stinks
 

Julia

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
433
the store said that they are out of crickets,roaches and meal worms so they sold me 5 lizard feeders so i said ok(better than nothing) then when i started feeding her lizard her cage stink like dead lizard......so i stopped feeding her.....then a week later i bought crickets and feed her yet the stink still there.....so if she dug under ground and dont leave any holes and all soil no holes ......then i got the idea the t is dead because it stinks
Did you at least take her out of the enclosure and thoroughly clean the cage after you determined that she was alive?
 

TheTsupreme

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
158
I'm just wondering, how to you take out food bolus and molts with petholes? if its not working with long tongs or its beeing to defensive againts it to remove the molt? the foodbolus is to small to see anyway i think what do you do?
 

bksbuddha

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
10
:cool: Gorgeous baby ya got there. I love my Allure & she looks just like the calm pics ya have. I know that my baby just loves to make herself invisiable pretty much constantly. Every once in a while, I have the pleasure of seeing her out & if I'm real lucky, she may even move around while I watch. I must say that it's usually about the time that I decide to go to bed which doesn't work out for me very well...as I would rather stay up & watch her. The little bugger probably throws parties while I'm at work! {D
She will find this and make it her own. Works every time. Just let her do the rest. If you add a tiny bit of moss and perhaps some leaves this fall, you will find that she puts those to good use to re-enforce her burrow entrance which should resemble a cone to some degree. Be advised, at times they will make another entrance to their burrows and can surprise you if you aren't aware of that. I found that out the scary way.

When i saw them in the wild in Vietnam, they used just about anything to build up and re-enforce their burrow entrances. I always felt this might be to prevent water from entering during the monsoon seasons there.
:eek: Not to hijack, but I'm so very relieved to read that!!!! You have no idea. My little precious decided to do that very thing the other day & it was fascinating to watch her methodically plaster the substrate to the glass & then web it up there, go get more,... Then, I spoke to a guy that's suppose to be the spider person at the shop that I go to & he said that she's severely stressed out & is gonna die!!!! :eek: At first I thought he was joking w/me (as he loves to do), but he continued saying it for a long time & didn't fess up when I left. Needless to say, your description has given me some comfort & alleviated some of my fears. :worship:
:confused: I just could understand how in the world she could be stressed out now after living in a tiny tub for 2 years w/about 1 1/2" of substrate to dig in & light shining in there on her. She was moved back in October to a 5 gallon, w/about 4-5" of substrate & a shallow pool, along w/a therm/hygro in there. Because she dug near the glass in the corner, I actually placed a towel across that side along w/a huge card so that the frog (;) not to be confused w/fog) light wouldn't shine into her home when I turn it on.
So, a million thank yous for posting that most helpful info!!!! If there was a huggy smilie, I'd have used it! {D
 

DooM_ShrooM

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
115
I'm just wondering, how to you take out food bolus and molts with petholes? if its not working with long tongs or its beeing to defensive againts it to remove the molt? the foodbolus is to small to see anyway i think what do you do?
well thats easy coz she is always in her hide and when she eat she will leave the bolus out side and she will molt outside too:D at least thats what mine do
 
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