Selling 1st instars

Devin B

Arachnobaron
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Sep 30, 2016
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Hello everyone. While i was at a reptile expo a few days ago I came across a vendor that had deli cups with substrate. Upon further inspection i noticed the smallest little spider in there. The seller informed me that they where 1st instars.

Is it normal to see 1st instars. I was under the impression that spiderlings weren't sold until the second instar.
Thanks for any input.
 

Devin B

Arachnobaron
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Sep 30, 2016
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326
Anyone who sells a 1st instar spiderling is a masochist. Dodge on sight.
I thought it was strange that he was selling first instars. Im relatively new to keeping tarantulas so I wasnt sure if this was common place or not. Soon after I purchased a sling from a different vendor.
 

Ungoliant

Malleus Aranearum
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Is it normal to see 1st instars. I was under the impression that spiderlings weren't sold until the second instar.
The youngest I generally see advertised is second instar (2i).

Reputable dealers seem not to sell them at the first instar, presumably because they are fragile and will result in more deaths (and more unsatisfied customers).
 

MetallicArachnid

Arachnosquire
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Jan 22, 2016
Messages
53
Definitely not normal, 2i yes but first instars are very fragile and likely to die from the stress of transport and rehousing steer clear of this dealer and any others trying to make a profit on a spider that likely won't survive.
 

Red Eunice

Arachnodemon
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Mar 2, 2014
Messages
667
Hello everyone. While i was at a reptile expo a few days ago I came across a vendor that had deli cups with substrate. Upon further inspection i noticed the smallest little spider in there. The seller informed me that they where 1st instars.
Is it normal to see 1st instars. I was under the impression that spiderlings weren't sold until the second instar.
Thanks for any input.
Normal? No! Rare? Yes!
Most wait til 2nd instar before selling. Was the vendor a local?
My case, I bought 5 C. marschalli 1st instar and now have 4 females. One died at 2", sex unknown, a year later. Vendor lives an 1 1/2 hour drive from me and was a monthly regular.
I won't ship 1st instar slings, nor anyone I know of, too fragile at that stage. Sell? Maybe, but only to local keepers. ;)
 

cold blood

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Probably weren't even actually 1st instar. Most people misidentify spidering development.
Yeah, this is likely. In Europe ( @Andrea82 and I had this conversation not too long ago), they refer to 1i as nymphs (some do here as well, most don't), and then refer to the next molt as i1, which is what most here know as 2i.

1i look more like true spiders almost and not like fuzzy little ts....these are 1i (or nymph) A. ezendami...these should be in an incubator and not in deli cups on substrate....although I could see selling them locally to someone who understood their care...

At 21 they look like little tarantulas and are much more mobile...this is also when they start feeding. These are P. cambridgei at 2i just before being separated into their own deli cups...
At this size they ship fine.
 
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Devin B

Arachnobaron
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Sep 30, 2016
Messages
326
Yeah, this is likely. In Europe ( @Andrea82 and I had this conversation not too long ago), they refer to 1i as nymphs (some do here as well, most don't), and then refer to the next molt as i1, which is what most here know as 2i.

1i look more like true spiders almost and not like fuzzy little ts....these are 1i (or nymph) A. ezendami...these should be in an incubator and not in deli cups on substrate....although I could see selling them locally to someone who understood their care...

At 21 they look like little tarantulas and are much more mobile...this is also when they start feeding. These are P. cambridgei at 2i just before being separated into their own deli cups...
At this size they ship fine.
The slings were all white and looked very much like the 1st picture you provided. I am convinced these spiderlings were 1st instars.
 

Andrea82

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Yeah, this is likely. In Europe ( @Andrea82 and I had this conversation not too long ago), they refer to 1i as nymphs (some do here as well, most don't), and then refer to the next molt as i1, which is what most here know as 2i.

1i look more like true spiders almost and not like fuzzy little ts....these are 1i (or nymph) A. ezendami...these should be in an incubator and not in deli cups on substrate....although I could see selling them locally to someone who understood their care...

At 21 they look like little tarantulas and are much more mobile...this is also when they start feeding. These are P. cambridgei at 2i just before being separated into their own deli cups...
At this size they ship fine.
The 'eggs with legs' fase is called N1, the fase which is depicted on your first picture is N2. The second picture is called 1FH (german for instar). They are not usually sold before 1FH, and definitely not shipped. Very irresponsible breeder, glad you didn't buy anything @Devin B
 

Haksilence

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405
Yeah, this is likely. In Europe ( @Andrea82 and I had this conversation not too long ago), they refer to 1i as nymphs (some do here as well, most don't), and then refer to the next molt as i1, which is what most here know as 2i.

1i look more like true spiders almost and not like fuzzy little ts....these are 1i (or nymph) A. ezendami...these should be in an incubator and not in deli cups on substrate....although I could see selling them locally to someone who understood their care...

At 21 they look like little tarantulas and are much more mobile...this is also when they start feeding. These are P. cambridgei at 2i just before being separated into their own deli cups...
At this size they ship fine.

I use the n1,N2, ECT, 1I, 2I so on and so forth naming convention.

Just seams more descriptive to me.
 

cold blood

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I use the n1,N2, ECT, 1I, 2I so on and so forth naming convention.

Just seams more descriptive to me.
Seems like its over-complicating things, especially for new people trying to learn...but people are free to use whatever designations they feel as it seem...as it seems there is leeway within the hobby.

Eggs, EWL, 1i, 2i and for sale is just simpler IMO...each to me is 100% descriptive without over-complicating things. But to each their own, it would take but a 30 second conversation with a seller to clear things up, even if peoples descriptions differ.

To be honest, I am not even sure what N1/N2 even means...I assume N refers to nymph, and it's being broken down into 2 stages between EWL(N1?) and what I consider to be 1i (N2), or what's typically known as a nymph (first pic). I don't know why one would designate 2 nymph stages when more than half the hobby doesn't even use the term nymph at all. I mean what's more descriptive, N1 or EWL? Everyone in the hobby pretty much knows what eggs with legs means, but I'm not even 100% clear on what N1 is.
 
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Andrea82

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Seems like its over-complicating things, especially for new people trying to learn...but people are free to use whatever designations they feel as it seem...as it seems there is leeway within the hobby.

Eggs, EWL, 1i, 2i and for sale is just simpler IMO...

To be honest, I am not even sure what N1/N2 even means...I assume N refers to nymph, and it's being broken down into 2 stages between EWL and what I consider to be 1i, of what's typically known as a nymph (first pic). I don't know why one would designate 2 nymph stages when more than half the hobby doesn't even use the term nymph at all.
Because Europe :D
Overcomplicating is what we do best!
:shifty:
 

Andrea82

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You're the best Andrea!:)

Yeah from my understanding the hobby isn't very friendly to new people over there.:(
In the Netherlands, it is not too bad, but it is kind of like there's a sort of 'incrowd'. Which isn't necessarily bad, but it can make it seem more difficult to be part of the Dutch hobbyists. And, like everywhere, there are a few who love to just smash topics/people/discussion.
What is difficult sometimes is the animosity between some European/Dutch breeders/keepers and US breeders.
But fortunately there are other Europeans here I can relate to.
I think it is better in the UK, but that could be just because I am viewing from the outside.
 

cold blood

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In the Netherlands, it is not too bad, but it is kind of like there's a sort of 'incrowd'. Which isn't necessarily bad, but it can make it seem more difficult to be part of the Dutch hobbyists. And, like everywhere, there are a few who love to just smash topics/people/discussion.
What is difficult sometimes is the animosity between some European/Dutch breeders/keepers and US breeders.
But fortunately there are other Europeans here I can relate to.
I think it is better in the UK, but that could be just because I am viewing from the outside.
Yeah, I guess its mostly das Germans, from what I gather from people here (especially recently).
 
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