Second guessing myself re: G. Pulchra juvenile premolt

[Sauga Bound]

One of the reasons I try to get on some of these posts from fellow beginners is because I think I’m still at a point where I can identify with and articulate some of the challenges we go through as beginners to understand some of the advice. Here’s another example: for the longest time, I didn’t know what it even meant to compare the abdomen to the carapace because in juvenile terrestrial species, the abdomen is usually going to be bigger (longer). It wasn’t until I saw someone on here mention the width that I had my “aha!” moment and felt more confident about monitoring that.

I think that with lots of things, it can be hard to remember what a beginner needs to know or to understand why a beginner might still have some sticky spots the further out we are from being a beginner ourselves.

It’s been pretty clear from your very first post that you’re what I would call a “competent beginner”—someone who has done a lot of research, who is adept at finding answers, and who is conscientious of their care and has obvious common sense and then seeks answers from the boards when you need confirmation or when you recognize that something is outside the information you can obtain with what’s out there.

This hobby is pretty simple, and yet a lot of things take experience, and we don’t have the benefit of resources that have been put together in a format built around learning. The books we have are old and provide some outdated advice that a beginner won’t necessarily know is outdated, and the information online is a mixed bag and requires that beginners figure out quickly what is and is not trustworthy without the benefit of experience to give them that instinct.

I find Wolfram’s comment very reassuring. Here’s a photo of Sybil (b. hamorii) who has been fasting for close to two months now but does not look like a molt is coming soon. You can see that she’s very fat, but not so much that I’m especially worried about her health.

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And then here’s Luca, who is a CHONKER now and who would happily eat anything I gave him if I were still feeding him.


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I have info about Luca’s previous two molts but only Sybil’s last molt. I don’t expect Luca to molt for at least another three or four months, and probably another 6 months for Sybil. So, I’m still learning right along with you how to balance this all out!

Hey Gevo and others who have taken time to reply to me,

I always appreciate your posts and find them genuinely helpful. You have more experience at this than I do, but not so much that you feel you can talk down to me like some posters with many years experience, as if feeding a T is so intuitive or various respected sources don't give tons of conflicting information.

Your photos help me to see that my Pulchra is not beyond the pale as far as overfeeding goes, and if she is, it was a problem that began when she was in the breeder's care. Your Ts are chonky, but nothing crazy. Your Pulchra looks similar to mine, and your Smithi looks a little overfed, but very healthy. How old is the Smithi and how long have you had her?

Anyhow, the five crickets of differing sizes I fed Noche over three weeks no doubt contributed to her size, but can't possibly be the only reason her abdomen is swollen to the extent it is. The photo I posted of the day I got her shows a spider that is already very chonky. Now I've learned my lesson and will take a much more nuanced approach to feeding in the future. I'm letting her chill for now (she hasn't fed in two weeks), until she shrinks sufficiently or molts. So thank-you to everyone who has helped me to better understand the molt cycle and how feeding schedules affect it.

Like all beginners, I've done research because that is a big part of my skillset as a teacher/scholar/writer/researcher. I've used research to become skilled in many things, from digital photography to growing and breeding craft cannabis, and much more. With raising T's, I've done the research, but don't yet have the hands-on experience to be as confident as those with large collections and years of experience behind them. So I value the replies from those members who want to teach without admonishing, because it's not like I know better and am doing something different anyways. My guess is pretty much every expert on T husbandry over or underfed their specimens when they were getting started. They learned better with the help of others and that is exactly what I'm trying to do.

Thanks again to everyone for their help.

 

[Gevo]

Hey Gevo and others who have taken time to reply to me,

I always appreciate your posts and find them genuinely helpful. You have more experience at this than I do, but not so much that you feel you can talk down to me like some posters with many years experience, as if feeding a T is so intuitive or various respected sources don't give tons of conflicting information

Your photos help me to see that my Pulchra is not beyond the pale as far as overfeeding goes, and if she is, it was a problem that began when she was in the breeder's care. Your Ts are chonky, but nothing crazy. Your Pulchra looks similar to mine, and your Smithi looks a little overfed, but very healthy. How old is the Smithi and how long have you had her?

I got Sybil and Luca at the same time, which was at the end of September, 2023. Both were being sold as 1.5-inch spiderlings, but Sybil was larger from the start. She was closer to 2 inches or maybe a bit bigger. With her last molt in May, she gained a substantial amount of size and is now about 2.5 inches.

Luca, on the other hand, started a bit smaller, maybe around 1.75 inches, and he molted around the summer solstice and hardly gained any size when he did. He’s about 2 inches now, maybe a tad less.

That’s another thing—I was bad at estimating their sizes by eye and didn’t really know until I pulled out a tape measure, and even that’s an estimate because they don’t stretch out fully, and I’m measuring from a few inches above them.

I have no idea how old they are, but given the growth rates of their species, they each could have been a couple of years old when I got them.

I should also note I haven’t confirmed their sexes yet. Both buried their last molts deep in their burrows, so I’m guessing on both fronts! I’m reasonably sure I was able to ventrally sex Sybil as a girl because she’s a bit bigger, she has a longer distance between her front most book lungs, and I’m about 85% confident I can see the beginnings of a flap, but I won’t know for sure until she lets me keep an intact molt. And Luca isn’t showing any signs of female anatomy, which is why I’m calling him “him,” but he’s still little, so it’s much harder to tell at this point without that molt to examine.

 

[Wolfram1]

I got Sybil and Luca at the same time, which was at the end of September, 2023. Both were being sold as 1.5-inch spiderlings, but Sybil was larger from the start. She was closer to 2 inches or maybe a bit bigger.

that is actually a very smart thing to do, lets you get a better gauge any potential mistakes as well as what is typical or what may just be individual differences

back when i started in 2018, i started with 0.0.2 Pamphobetheus sp. 'machala', back when i still thought these would be my only ones

for the longest time i thought i saw differences in their ventral epigastric furrow, turns out they were both female
that showed me how useless it can be without something to compare it to
there is a reason ventral sexing is more about spotting the epiandrous fussilae, the outer male sexual organs, or conversely not spotting them
in any case the section can be quite helpful as a reference

personally i find this document very useful as a starting point, u get access after a free registration at the WSC, its old but still good
Hancock, K. & Hancock, J. (1989). Sex determination of immature theraphosid spiders from their cast skins. Published by the authors, Southminster, England, 61 pp.

NMBE - World Spider Catalog

Detailed taxonomic information about the spider families

wsc.nmbe.ch

good luck you two

 

[cold blood]

Nobody talked down to you...as a teacher you should understand the reader of text applies the tone....you can read anything with any tone you like, it doesn't mean the writer intended a negative tone. I like to tell people to read posts as if they were written by your sweet loving grandmother......if you read text by assuming a negative tone, everything and anything can sound bad.

The information one gets is FAR more important than the (implied) tone of the information.

 

[Gevo]

that is actually a very smart thing to do, lets you get a better gauge any potential mistakes as well as what is typical or what may just be individual differences

back when i started in 2018, i started with 0.0.2 Pamphobetheus sp. 'machala', back when i still thought these would be my only ones

for the longest time i thought i saw differences in their ventral epigastric furrow, turns out they were both female
that showed me how useless it can be without something to compare it to
there is a reason ventral sexing is more about spotting the epiandrous fussilae, the outer male sexual organs, or conversely not spotting them
in any case the section can be quite helpful as a reference

personally i find this document very useful as a starting point, u get access after a free registration at the WSC, its old but still good
Hancock, K. & Hancock, J. (1989). Sex determination of immature theraphosid spiders from their cast skins. Published by the authors, Southminster, England, 61 pp.

NMBE - World Spider Catalog

Detailed taxonomic information about the spider families

wsc.nmbe.ch

good luck you two

Thanks! I’m fully prepared to be proven wrong about one or both of them and am not tied to thinking of them as one or the other!

Nobody talked down to you...as a teacher you should understand the reader of text applies the tone....you can read anything with any tone you like, it doesn't mean the writer intended a negative tone. I like to tell people to read posts as if they were written by your sweet loving grandmother......if you read text by assuming a negative tone, everything and anything can sound bad.

The information one gets is FAR more important than the (implied) tone of the information.

It’s also a global forum that’s open to members of all ages, so I try to remember that people posting or replying may not be writing in their first language, writing may not be their preferred or strongest medium, or they may just be busy and trying to hammer out a reply amidst other things.

 

[Dorifto]

It’s also a global forum that’s open to members of all ages, so I try to remember that people posting or replying may not be writing in their first language, writing may not be their preferred or strongest medium, or they may just be busy and trying to hammer out a reply amidst other things.

This ↑

In my case, english is my third language, and my mother language it's quite direct, so sometimes I can sound quite blunt while in reality my tone it's quite relaxed.

 

[Sauga Bound]

Nobody talked down to you...as a teacher you should understand the reader of text applies the tone....you can read anything with any tone you like, it doesn't mean the writer intended a negative tone. I like to tell people to read posts as if they were written by your sweet loving grandmother......if you read text by assuming a negative tone, everything and anything can sound bad.

The information one gets is FAR more important than the (implied) tone of the information.

I’ll keep that in mind. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[TheraMygale]

TheraMygale, I’m not sure exactly what you are trying to say in your last post, but it sounds like if I keep my spiders fat,

i was talking about my tarantula. Trying to communicate using whats happening to my tarantula to give an example.

i dont know if it came off wrong. Everything i wrote was about my tarantula.

i have issues with communication but i try to use my experience as an example.

It was not made to come off as accusatory or to grow fear.

There is also a language barrier.

My intentions came from a place of kindness.

i dont have years of experience. I just wanted to share what i was experiencing and why i am keeping an eye on it.

I thought perhaps it was good to give you a different perspective.

i welcome you to private message me, in the futur, if any of my posts are difficult to understand. I will explain.

 

[Sauga Bound]

i was talking about my tarantula. Trying to communicate using whats happening to my tarantula to give an example.

i dont know if it came off wrong. Everything i wrote was about my tarantula.

i have issues with communication but i try to use my experience as an example.

It was not made to come off as accusatory or to grow fear.

There is also a language barrier.

My intentions came from a place of kindness.

i dont have years of experience. I just wanted to share what i was experiencing and why i am keeping an eye on it.

I thought perhaps it was good to give you a different perspective.

i welcome you to private message me, in the futur, if any of my posts are difficult to understand. I will explain.

Hey TheraMygale,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, but I've had a crazy week and this is the first time I've had a moment to sit down and log into my Arachnoboards account and post anything.

I agree that we had a misunderstanding. With the amount of sarcasm and passive-aggressive comments on internet forums (and the internet in general, unfortunately,) I wasn't sure if you were using the photo you posted to suggest that if I continued to keep my Pulchra the way she was, she would likely die from one of the serious ailments you mentioned. I didn't realize you were talking about your own spiders and that you were keeping them overweight.

By the way, are you intentionally overfeeding them for an experiment or just temporarily, or did you unintentionally overfeed them until their abdomens got that large? In my case, I only fed my Pulchra six times in eight weeks (I didn't feed her the first week she was with me because she was settling in, and then I fed her six crickets in a little over three weeks (3 X 1/2" and 3 X 3/4") She was already quite large when I got her, so it didn't take much to overfeed her.

For everyone else who has taken the time to advise me....

It's now been three weeks since I last fed her and she coming out in the evening, looking for food the last week. She seems to have slimmed down a bit and I just got a juvenile GBB today (I'm going to post pics of her and her enclosure shortly.) Her abdomen is much smaller than Noche's was when I got her, so as soon as she settles in, I'm going to buy a few 1/2" crickets and give one to Noche, as well. I'll probably feed her one every couple weeks until goes into into pre-moult, but I'm going to post her most recent photo and y'all can let me know what you think. The breeder said she's not fat enough to be on a starvation diet, and that I could still feed her a medium cricket every couple weeks or so.

 

[Gevo]

I think that plan sounds good. Smaller feeders offered less frequently will slow further abdomen growth.

 

[TheraMygale]

unintentionally overfeed them until their abdomens got that large

it was not my intention. I have been feeding very small prey and not often. Yet, it still grew. So now i am watching it. Whenever it decides to molt again, i will be keeping an eye on the abdomen size. I have a feeling it will stay big even after a molt.

in anycase, its still a good time to adapt feedings since its young.

 

[NMTs]

that I could still feed her a medium cricket every couple weeks or so.

This is good. An appropriately sized feeder (about the size of the carapace) every few weeks is a good maintenance diet. It will help keep your T active and feeding, instead of burrowing and disappearing. Then, when it does burrow and disappear, you'll have a better idea that it is truly going to molt soon. Just make sure to keep it's water dish full