SEALING CRAFT STYROFOAM

[Derp73]

I am trying to safely seal a styrofoam block under a background filled with great stuff large gap foam. The foam was used to fill in voids in the back of a deep "rockledge" universal rocks background that I got for, yes, my snake. I filled in around the styrofoam block at the bottom with the foam; but I could take the block out. I didn't want her to get behind the background or under it. The background is 12 in high and I'm using it in an 18 in high PVC enclosure which I'm preparing for Bio activity. It is very hard to get answers about the safety of sealants, foams and other materials that are safe for vivs and can be used in combination. As far as I can tell; you guys are really tuned up about all this!

1. Are all great stuff foams equally safe?
2. Should I just take out the styrofoam block and screw the background into my pvc enclosure (along with using good silicone to hold it against my pvc enclosure) or can I safely seal the styrofoam block with good waterproof safe silicone? Can you even do that? (The styrofoam block is to raise the background above the substrate)

At this point I am thinking about not even using the background at all. Thanks for your expertise in these matters!

 

[Tentacle Toast]

As far as the foam is concerned:

CPID

Potential Chemical Exposures From Spray Polyurethane Foam | US EPA

Chemical exposures from SPF may occur through a variety of ways.

archive.epa.gov

.
As for the rest, I'm struggling to interpret your painting in my mind here, friend

 

[Frogdaddy]

I am trying to safely seal a styrofoam block under a background filled with great stuff large gap foam. The foam was used to fill in voids in the back of a deep "rockledge" universal rocks background that I got for, yes, my snake. I filled in around the styrofoam block at the bottom with the foam; but I could take the block out. I didn't want her to get behind the background or under it. The background is 12 in high and I'm using it in an 18 in high PVC enclosure which I'm preparing for Bio activity. It is very hard to get answers about the safety of sealants, foams and other materials that are safe for vivs and can be used in combination. As far as I can tell; you guys are really tuned up about all this!

1. Are all great stuff foams equally safe?
2. Should I just take out the styrofoam block and screw the background into my pvc enclosure (along with using good silicone to hold it against my pvc enclosure) or can I safely seal the styrofoam block with good waterproof safe silicone? Can you even do that? (The styrofoam block is to raise the background above the substrate)

At this point I am thinking about not even using the background at all. Thanks for your expertise in these matters!

Not all Great Stuff is the same. You want to use the Great Stuff in the red can, or the one that is made for ponds. I don't remember what color the can is but with the pond stuff the color of the foam is black.

 

[The Snark]

Oh. The stuff in the can. Isocyanates. Make sure the stuff has had a good long time to set, say 72 hours, before exposing your animals to it. Deadly toxic until it is fully cured then it's basically harmless. I was working in a refrigeration plant where we injected that stuff into fridges. Had a visit from OSHA. Over the top. Checked our respirators, the air flow volume in the room and took gas tests in the room where the fridges were 'cooking'. Made the main office put up Haz Mat warning signs on the walls near and in the injection room.

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

This sounds like a call to @HooahArmy !

 

[The Snark]

This sounds like a call to @HooahArmy !

I'm up for the low down on isocyanates. The greatest hazard, I'm told, is after the stuff is cured you don't want to heat it until of smokes. The off gassing is serious bad news.

 

[Frogdaddy]

Great stuff in the red can or pond great stuff is perfectly safe once properly cured. Dart froggers have been using it for years and years.

 

[HooahArmy]

Red rover, red rover... HooahArmy's now over!

Good day ladies and gents! So far, I'm reading some great input by the aracho-gang already! Not all foams are the same and some can cure faster and slower, and at different stabilities and hardnesses, all with the help of our good friends Volatile Chemicals (VCs)! VC are what get released into the air as compounds harden, and there are indeed those that are made for ponds and close living spaces, which are the top picks I agree with. These are most safe to be used around a pet buddy, yet the key takeaway is to always let a foam product completely cure and breathe. It is harder to do so in a terrarium due to low circulation, so ideally, it is best to add from 1 week to 1 month of extra time to allow those VCs to evaporate away.
After spraying your stuffs and allowing to to cure for the set time, perform a smell check. If it still stinks to hades, the item still is venting VCs. You may add a fan or circulating-generating device of your choice to cure venting speeds. When the foam object is in the terrarium, the closed space will cause the VCs to build up, so keep this in mind when determining how much more time may be needed for extra venting.

A second option mentioned was a silicone (used with screws), and the stuff is my homie when it comes to building or adding to terrariums. Aquarium-safe silicone is the safest bet to use around a buddy, but the downside is that they can take a long time to cure (evaporate VCs). This stuff can be stronger and a better bonder than foam, but some folks may complain about its aesthetic appearance when it is visible. Foam tends to look better, and depending on your type of choice, may need to cure longer or shorter. Some people have reported that hot glue works as a fast fix for enclosures. When used correctly (don't snort it!), hot glue hardens fast and is relatively non-toxic. However, the downside is that when not used generously, it can form a weaker bond than foam or silicone.

The bottom line still is that foam and silicones are great pics to spiff up your terrarium. Regardless of which you pick, all a person needs to do to ensure safety is to allow the compound to fully cure and to make sure their pet isn't the guy or girl who likes to gnaw on the stuff. When in doubt on cure progress--smell check! If the stuff stinks like mad to you, it's going to smell worse and fill the terrarium with fumes when the doors are closed.

Feel free to ask more questions!

 

[The Snark]

@HooahArmy I'm curious as to the off gassing difference between the spray stuff in the can and the two part catalytic that gets injected into things like fridges. I know when they insulate houses and especially attics and closed in spaces it's full head to toe PPEs with a respirator. And the cartridges for the respirator were the fumes and vapors mega expensive $45 a pop for a pair.
I recall when management wanted to implement using a hot wire to trim off excess foam OSHA gave a flat out no - under no circumstances.

 

[HooahArmy]

@The Snark
Hey there! Would you happen to know what the two-part stuff you are mentioning is called? Are you referring to the epoxy one?
Additionally, the reason why folks wear full battle rattle when insulating houses is because the fluff stuff used is primarily fiberglass, which is quite like a jumbo bundle of setae. Installing the stuff is like pressing a massive shedding L. parahybana butt into your walls and crawlspaces; so to keep from inhaling the fiberglass, getting it into eyes and mouths, and to keep free of itch-city, installers cover from head to toe and wipe down like mad when coming in and out of the house. Just like T setae, the fiberglass can get everywhere and settle everywhere!

 

[The Snark]

Would you happen to know what the two-part stuff you are mentioning is called? Are you referring to the epoxy one?

No. It was a cayano something isocyanate. Mix and it starts to go off in 30 seconds. Expands about 20-30 times the liquid volume. I can't recall the chemical names but it is the weapon of choice in fridges with closed cells and a super low K factor. 1 inch yields about R40. It's expansion rate is fierce. The fridges had to be in reinforced 'coffins' to keep the foam from making the sides bulge.

Additionally, the reason why folks wear full battle rattle when insulating houses is because the fluff stuff used is primarily fiberglass,

Nope. For foam. Note the three tubes. The same gear and goo we used in fridges.

 

[HooahArmy]

No. It was a cayano something isocyanate. Mix and it starts to go off in 30 seconds. Expands about 20-30 times the liquid volume. I can't recall the chemical names but it is the weapon of choice in fridges with closed cells and a super low K factor. 1 inch yields about R40. It's expansion rate is fierce. The fridges had to be in reinforced 'coffins' to keep the foam from making the sides bulge.


Nope. For foam. Note the three tubes. The same gear and goo we used in fridges. View attachment 456301

Ah ha! I see what foam you mean! I'm not the building material master, so I had to call a buddy on this one, so credit goes to my homeboy Dr. DaSilva, our resident OSHA master. He sent me this bit of info from the OSHA site on insulation foam and PPE. I think it should answer all your life's (foamy) questions:

"Isocyanates are compounds containing the isocyanate group (-NCO). They react with compounds containing alcohol (hydroxyl) groups to produce polyurethane polymers, which are components of polyurethane foams, thermoplastic elastomers, spandex fibers, and polyurethane paints. Isocyanates are the raw materials that make up all polyurethane products. Jobs that may involve exposure to isocyanates include painting, foam-blowing, and the manufacture of many Polyurethane products, such as chemicals, polyurethane foam, insulation materials, surface coatings, car seats, furniture, foam mattresses, under-carpet padding, packaging materials, shoes, laminated fabrics, polyurethane rubber, and adhesives, and during the thermal degradation of polyurethane products.

Health effects of isocyanate exposure include irritation of skin and mucous membranes, chest tightness, and difficult breathing. Isocyanates include compounds classified as potential human carcinogens and known to cause cancer in animals. The main effects of hazardous exposures are occupational asthma and other lung problems, as well as irritation of the eyes, nose, throat, and skin."

Citation: https://www.osha.gov/isocyanates

 

[The Snark]

I had to call a buddy on this one, so credit goes to my homeboy Dr. DaSilva, our resident OSHA master. He sent me this bit of info from the OSHA site on insulation foam and PPE. I think it should answer all your life's (foamy) questions:

So isocyanates - polyurethanes is a broad general term which can contain a vast spectrum of vehicles, solvents and assorted adjuncts. Then with foam and a mild exothermic reaction, I can easily see why OSHA would red flag the stuff. Even off the shelf consumer products from a big box can deliver a hefty payload of toxins.
I got a can of 'Polyurethane Water Seal'. Opened it and the fumes would knock buzzards off of poop wagons. Ultra thick goo with the vague useage suggestion it be thinned up to 90% but with what it doesn't say. Since I don't have a fumes and vapors respirator it's been a paperweight for my water filter documentation for the past 5 years.

Off the subject, do you know or have refs knowlegable in steroidal injection therapy and side effects?