Rottweiler question

[The Snark]

My friend, now gone, owned two Rots. They were gigantic, around 3 foot tall and both between 150 and 200 pounds. Think Mastiff on steroids. He had brought them from England where he bought them both from someone who bred that strain.

When my friend passed on his wife gave both dogs away. Now she wants to get a couple of Rots again as guard dogs and has been looking for ones similar to those to no avail. No Rots anywhere near that size exist.

Has anyone heard of giant Rottweilers?

 

[Blue Jaye]

There used to be a few bloodlines in Germany that were of large size . And there are still a few here in the states but for the most part rottys bloodlines have been blow out and most of that breed are quite a bit smaller . Maybe she should look into mastiff breeds they are usually quit a bit larger than rottys . Mastiffs are great dogs , train well , and very protective .

 

[The Snark]

So they were some exotics from a rare blood line rather than some more or less common sub species? That's what I suspected. Personally I think she's out of her mind. The two they had were moody monsters that he had trained for many months with an extraordinary amount of gentleness and patience.

I absolutely adore Mastiffs and can honestly say I've never met one I didn't like.

Your Mastiff anecdote. A friend, who first introduced me to mastiffs, got a new female. She trained the female for a few weeks and then introduced it to her family. No problems. Then she put the 6 month old baby out in the yard one day and told the female to watch her. So the kid gets to crawling and the dog goes frantic. She's smart enough to know she can't pick the baby up with her mouth so after the kid made it some distance across the yard the dog used her nose to roll the kid back to the blanket. But the kid was screaming it's head off and the dog was very alarmed.

So the dog was reassured and rewarded for being so diligent and careful. A couple of days later the dog learned a new trick. When the baby went crawling the dog would get in front of her and give a huge slobber loaded lick in the face. Problem solved. See that dog coming head back for your blanket pronto or suffer the lick almost worse than death. Dog trains baby.

 

[Blue Jaye]

As with a lot of breeds the bloodline started out with larger rottys but as with most dogs the good genetics get watered down due to not enough genetics to work from in the first place ( to few pure male and female pairs ) so inbreeding happens and they get smaller . I have seen this happen in many species now over the years . The other reason for some changes would be what was in the base bloodline is no longer available. For instance I have a Dogo Argentino , in the making of the breed Cordova Fighting dog was used and is now extinct . There were not that many Dogo's pairs to start out with so inbreeding has most definitely occurred and with out new genetics from Cordova the breed will change , getting weaker and smaller . Now while I love your Mastiff story we must remember that dogs no matter how well trained are predators and allowing a dog and baby to be unattended is not the best idea . Things could go horribly wrong very quickly and especially if the training is not kept up . Many people do not realize that as with humans training must continue , we can not expect a lifetime of good behavior from a few months of training . With dogs an unbreakable bond requires several components that most humans over look . Training , play , good food relationship , sleeping together , lots of outdoor stimulus, exercise and most important unconditional love and loyalty . I find most people expect a lot out of their animal without giving them the proper tools . When we teach our children we teach them what everything means but when it comes to training our dogs we expect them to know what things mean automatically . Like sit but we didn't show them what sit meant we just expect them to know what the word means . I see this happen so often and watch people get so frustrated with their animal . Wow I really went off on a tangent there sorry lol apparently I'm quite passionate about these things .

 

[cold blood]

Most rots of that size are the product of poor genetics....breed standard is nearly half the size of those dogs....and they're still plenty big and strong.

They are en excellent breed, intelligent and loyal and typically social, although they do need a strong owner.

I'd suggest to her not looking for giants, but rather well bred dogs. This desire for giants does nothing to help the breed in the long run.

Smaller ones are generally genetically superior.

Giant rots are generally (at least here in the states) a product of unscrupulous breeding. One of the things you'll often read in ads is "big block heads"...also a sign of poor breeding, their heads should be slightly tapered.

 

[The Snark]

Thanks much for the Rotty info. Will pass the word along. Sounds like she had her chance and blew it and it's going to be dumb luck if she ever finds dogs like those again.

... Now while I love your Mastiff story we must remember that dogs no matter how well trained are predators and allowing a dog and baby to be unattended is not the best idea . Things could go horribly wrong very quickly and especially if the training is not kept up . Many people do not realize that as with humans training must continue , we can not expect a lifetime of good behavior from a few months of training . With dogs an unbreakable bond requires several components that most humans over look . Training , play , good food relationship , sleeping together , lots of outdoor stimulus, exercise and most important unconditional love and loyalty . I find most people expect a lot out of their animal without giving them the proper tools . When we teach our children we teach them what everything means but when it comes to training our dogs we expect them to know what things mean automatically .

Absolutely!
I wish everyone, ESPECIALLY pit-bull fanatics, could see that woman in action training dogs. Among a myriad of other aspects she spend a lot of time on her hands and knees demonstrating to the dog the behavior she expects.
One priceless time I watched her she was training the growing pups of a mastiff bitch. She had the mom stand still then got the three pups following her as she crawled under the mom. The bond she made with that mom dog was so strong the mom wanted her to join the pups when she was feeding them.

As for the dog watching the baby, always supervised. It wasn't a baby sitting venture but one of the ways she trained her dogs. If memory serves, part of the training she called getting the animal to feel it is a part of the family. A very intensive course that I think went for 2 months along with other training regimens like obedience, proper public behavior and so on. She trains service dogs as her main business.

Oh yes. A quote from her: NEVER raise your dog like the average child. They require much more attention than sitting them for hours in front of the boob tube!

Along that line is the insanely hilarious 'family time' she has every evening. All the dogs she is training at the moment and her human family all gathered in one room for an hour or so. Madhouse circus.

I still have a mental picture. Her telling me about the family time together. Her and hubby and 3 kids and some assorted cats and a pair of cockatoos, their own dogs, a border collie (BS or bed shark) a greyhound, a malamute and a whippet, and their borders of the moment, 4 mastiffs, a great dane, an Alsatian and her 4 pups and a dachsund. Their living/rumpus room was not that large.

 

[Fyrwulf]

Rotties are like any other working dog. Give them plenty of things to do (training), affection, socialization, and boundaries and they'll do fine. Every well taken care of Pit, Rottie, or Dobie I've ever met is an attention seeking missile perfectly happy to hand out kisses like they're going to be banned. God help you if you're ever a threat to their pack, though. My advice, if she's going to get two, is to make sure they're litter mates from a good breeder and make sure that if she's doing anything with them it's always both at the same time. If they're always together, they'll act like a unit when the ball drops and there won't be any jealousy or separation anxiety issues.

Also, everybody recognizes a Rottweiler. Nobody is ever eager to mess with one, no matter the size. Their efficacy as guard dogs is because of their willingness to take on all comers. One will bring a world of hurt, two will redefine the phrase.

 

[catfishrod69]

Years back i had a 150 lb male rottie. He was given away as an adult, then that person moved and gave him to me. He turned out to be the most precious, gentle, loving dog ive ever had, and i miss him dearly. He ended up getting cancer, and didnt make it much longer after it set in. Whenever he broke loose, he would go over to my moms house next door, and sit on her porch. I used a big log chain, and 2.5 ton horse hooks to keep him tied, but he still snapped the hooks in half whenever he got too spunky. I could toss one of those smaller basket balls to him, and he could grab them mid air no problems. Only bad thing was he was a lap dog at heart, and that was alot of weight to have in your lap. One time i was at work, and he broke loose. My mom had him out near the road trying to wrangle him, and a guy stopped his car to help. As soon as that car door opened my rot hopped right in making himself at home on the leather seats. He loved to go for car rides. One thing i wanted to do, but never got to, was take him swimming at the lake. Really regret not doing that now. Miss him every day.

 

[The Snark]

I thank everyone for their input! And my 2 cents. All dogs are a product of their upbringing and environment. If it's vicious or disobedient, look to the owner during the animal's formative years. Almost any dog can be a cuddlemonster. I qualify that with the word any. Wolves are wolves and breeds close to wolves retain the wild instincts as well. The gentlest wolf in the world is still willing and able to shred you if it perceives you taking liberties with it. Applies to dingos and other close lupine relatives as well. The genetic instruction manual is very hard to over-ride.

As for those Rottweilers. From what you have said and what I gather they were a special breed, probably sold to my friend because he was such an outstanding animal keeper. From little hints dropped I suspect his wife probably only wants to replace the animals for status and the face game and if that is the case, I'm glad the breeder is so reclusive.

 

[Fyrwulf]

From little hints dropped I suspect his wife probably only wants to replace the animals for status and the face game and if that is the case, I'm glad the breeder is so reclusive.

That confused me for a second and then I remembered you live in Asia, so that's a thing there. Dunno why she'd want dogs that each weigh half again as much as her, especially if she has no experience with training (I've been assuming she'd hire a trainer, but now not so much).

 

[cold blood]

My advice, if she's going to get two, is to make sure they're litter mates from a good breeder and make sure that if she's doing anything with them it's always both at the same time. If they're always together, they'll act like a unit when the ball drops and there won't be any jealousy or separation anxiety issues.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Littermates will give you more issues as the competition will be elevated. Get littermates and they become reliant on one another, often to the point of anxiety when separated.

A very close friend has a pair of littermate sister German shepards (very similar in many ways to a rott). She's EXTREMELY experienced with dogs and a very strong owner, one of the strongest owners I've met to date (I've been working with and training dogs much of my life). Over and over we talk about how she wouldn't ever do that again. Not that they're not great dogs, they certainly are, but there are issues that need to be paid very close attention to. One is confident and alpha, the other, while confident and obedient, is basically lost without the other one as its never really had to gain its independence. Walk the non-alpha alone and it's basically lost, because it only knows how to follow. And then there's the fights...while rare, with littermates they can escalate very quickly....with the wrong owner it could quickly become a catastrophe.

IMO only the most experienced, strongest owners should take on a pair of large littermates. I'd strongly try to urge her to just get one....if in time she still wants a second, then get one at a later date, after she's trained the first. Rotts are one of the breeds known affectionately as "Velcro breeds", because of their strong bond they develop with their owner...so strong they almost seem "stuck" to their owners. Having a single one will help nurture this bond and make training significantly easier as all focus will be on her...where it belongs.

 

[cold blood]

I will say though that if you were to buy littermates, I'd suggest a male and a female as opposed to a pair of females or males.

 

[windscorpions1]

When I was younger my family had a couple Rottweilers only one ever had any sort of aggression (it was from a rescue or something If I remember right so it was probably abused by its previous owner) I was only about 5 at the time so with having a small kid in the house we got rid of it. The other one wouldn't have hurt a fly. That one unfortunately also had to be given away. The story I was told was it had something wrong with it and we didn't have the money to get him back to health so we had to give him away to someone that had the cash to do it. But if it's trained to be a good dog you shouldn't have a single problem with Rottweilers.

 

[The Snark]

Having never bred dogs, and only adopted by them one at a time, I'm clueless about sibling rivalries subtracting from domestic bliss.

But I always think back to a family I know that kept three Dobie siblings, a sister and two brothers and the difference in personalities between them would make the average observer think they were entirely different species or even genus. Genevieve, Gen, a gracious lady who loved to go on sedate strolls and be a conversation piece at picnics as she delicately accepted tidbits. Her younger brother, Bozo, once left a paw print on a ceiling during one of his more exuberant romps, and the eldest, Brick, who spent much of his time collecting grease and oil from the underside of cars which he would generously paint on any and all unsuspecting victims as he did the leg circle dance, cruising for attention. The battles between Brick, to be precise his undocked tail, and a pride of kittens was the stuff of legends.
To the best of my knowledge they never had any rivalries at all. Gen didn't even want to acknowledge her brothers existence and the brothers were way too far gone in their own private fantasy worlds to be aware they even had siblings.

 

[Fyrwulf]

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Littermates will give you more issues as the competition will be elevated. Get littermates and they become reliant on one another, often to the point of anxiety when separated.

Which is why I suggested specifically that they not be separated or should always be treated equally. Doing otherwise is an express ticket to Issues City.

 

[cold blood]

Which is why I suggested specifically that they not be separated or should always be treated equally. Doing otherwise is an express ticket to Issues City.

Not separating them is part of what causes issues. Don't separate them, like the dogs I described, and only the alpha dog is often ever really independent.


And its virtually impossible to have 2 dogs and always treat them equally. I'll give an example of something that could happen multiple times a day, every day. One dog is, say sleeping, (or doing any number of things independently) and the other comes and wants love or attention....what do you do? Ignore the dog that comes to you until the other is also interested? Virtually impossible, and even if you did, every time one dog did something independently you would be stopping it because the other wanted attention....potentially destroying the independence of both dogs.

Just something to consider.

 

[Fyrwulf]

only the alpha dog is often ever really independent.

That's the problem right there. As the owner, you are the alpha. You are the leader. The dogs are part of your pack, you are not a part of theirs. If it's anything other than that, ever, you're going to have problems.

 

[cold blood]

That's the problem right there. As the owner, you are the alpha. You are the leader. The dogs are part of your pack, you are not a part of theirs. If it's anything other than that, ever, you're going to have problems.

C'mon dude, I obviously meant amongst the dogs. Did you see me describe the owner I used as an example as one of the strongest I've even met? Regardless of the owner, dogs will still develop a hierarchy amongst themselves.

 

[Fyrwulf]

C'mon dude, I obviously meant amongst the dogs.

I know what you meant and I maintain it shouldn't happen. I've known and known of plenty of people with litter mates of strong willed breeds who've never had problems, much less their dogs developing streaks of independence. Granted, it takes a stable environment with consistent boundaries and constant training, but if a person can't provide that then they shouldn't have a GSD, Dobie, Rottie, or Pit.

 

[cold blood]

I know what you meant and I maintain it shouldn't happen. I've known and known of plenty of people with litter mates of strong willed breeds who've never had problems, much less their dogs developing streaks of independence. Granted, it takes a stable environment with consistent boundaries and constant training, but if a person can't provide that then they shouldn't have a GSD, Dobie, Rottie, or Pit.

Right, it takes a special kind of diligent owner, the kind that's unfortunately rare and apparently not at all the case in the situation being discussed. Its something only the most experienced trainers should take on.