RIP, I think?

heliman

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8
Have a Chilean Rose female that is at least 2 and a half years old, could be older. She is an adult at about 4" if I were to muster a guess.

She started to molt around 11am today. I noticed she was on her back. I didn't know they go on their backs to molt, so I turned her over. She was lethargic and didnt seem to have the energy to turn back over, so I very carefully put her back on her back where she stayed all day. Around 7pm, she started to actually molt. She was having problems getting the piece off of her abdomen and I read that if that is on for too long, it could cover the book lungs. She was moving her legs quite actively (based on the molting videos I watched on the net). She stopped moving and didnt move at all for a couple of hours, so I read that if the piece on her abdomen is on too long, it could suffocate her because its covering the book lungs up. I very carefully pulled the piece back with some tweezers and she perked back up again a little and now she is not moving at all.

I made an ICU for her and put her on her back in the ICU, but I strongly feel she is gone. I will give it a few days before making any decisions.

Is there anything else I can do or try? So far, she just had the bottom piece of her abdomen off and is stuck with the rest of her body. I have read where people have carefully pulled the molt off as a last ditch effort, but all of her legs are still in and it doesnt look like I could get any of the molt off at all.

As far as my ICU, I wet a couple of paper towells and put them in the bottom of a shallow (cool whip size) container. I put one hole in for ventilation that is about the diameter of a pencil. From others experiences, is this about all I can do or is there something else I can try? I dont want to give up hope and really want to do everything I can.

I have used the search function and didnt really see anything that has to do with a T being stuck so early in a molt.

Any help???
 

Londoner

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
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Mar 21, 2008
Messages
846
In my opinion, putting the T in an ICU isn't really needed. An ICU is mainly used to treat dehydration. The humidity MAY help with the molting process but I believe internal hydration is more important than ambient humidity when it comes to molting. Either way, I'd leave the T in there to avoid any more disturbances.

Exactly how much progress has been made with the molt? from your description, I'd guess that the carapace has popped and the abdomen has started to come away. People have had success in freeing stuck legs by using a few drops of glycerine on the affected limb, but I don't feel this would help much in your case if all the legs and palps are still inside.

Your idea to wait a few days is about all you can do at this point. You might want to take the time to read some of the stickies on these boards, especially the "answers to common questions" one. It will leave you much more prepared for this type of thing in the future. When it comes to molting, the best thing you can do is resist the urge to interfere, and let the T handle it on it's own with as little disturbance as possible.

Good luck :).
 

curiousme

Arachnoprince
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Dec 11, 2008
Messages
1,659
Have a Chilean Rose female that is at least 2 and a half years old, could be older. She is an adult at about 4" if I were to muster a guess.
This spider could not possibly be 2 and a half years old at 4". Our G. rosea spiderling(baby) is 2 years old and the size of a quarter. This is a very slow growing species. I am unsure where you got that information from, but it is incorrect.

She started to molt around 11am today. I noticed she was on her back. I didn't know they go on their backs to molt, so I turned her over. She was lethargic and didnt seem to have the energy to turn back over, so I very carefully put her back on her back where she stayed all day. Around 7pm, she started to actually molt. She was having problems getting the piece off of her abdomen and I read that if that is on for too long, it could cover the book lungs. She was moving her legs quite actively (based on the molting videos I watched on the net). She stopped moving and didnt move at all for a couple of hours, so I read that if the piece on her abdomen is on too long, it could suffocate her because its covering the book lungs up. I very carefully pulled the piece back with some tweezers and she perked back up again a little and now she is not moving at all.
For future reference, do not mess with your tarantula when it is molting. Leave it be to do its business. It is the tarantula and it will know what's best for it to do. Some prior research into the pet that you acquired could have prevented this cascade of bad decisions.

I made an ICU for her and put her on her back in the ICU, but I strongly feel she is gone. I will give it a few days before making any decisions.
Now that she has been moved yet again in the process of molting, please leave the spider alone in a warm, dark place. It is still possible that it might continue and complete its molt, but with all the interference that would be at best, unlikely. Tarantulas of that size can take many hours to molt, I have seen reports of up to a day, so patience is a virtue where molting is concerned.

Is there anything else I can do or try? So far, she just had the bottom piece of her abdomen off and is stuck with the rest of her body. I have read where people have carefully pulled the molt off as a last ditch effort, but all of her legs are still in and it doesnt look like I could get any of the molt off at all.
Since the ICU is humid, put in a warm, dark place and leave it alone.

As far as my ICU, I wet a couple of paper towells and put them in the bottom of a shallow (cool whip size) container. I put one hole in for ventilation that is about the diameter of a pencil. From others experiences, is this about all I can do or is there something else I can try? I dont want to give up hope and really want to do everything I can.
The ICU sounds fine as long as the T is still upside down. Once again, what you can do for it, is leave it in a warm dark place and quit messing with it. Don't check on it every 15min./30min./hour, because that is causing a disturbance and this T has had plenty of that.

If this T does not pull through, I suggest you do research on tarantulas before procuring another. The death of this T, should it happen, will be because of lack of knowledge on your part. To prevent that happening again, pick a copy of the Tarantula Keeper's Guide and read it cover to cover. Use the advanced search function here and search in the Tarantula section for questions, or ponderances you might have. Also, there is a wonderful link in my signature with even more information. AND there is a sticky at the top of this subforum specifically for your species of tarantula that would be helpful to read.

I do wish you luck and hope that it pulls through.
 

heliman

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8
Thanks guys. I am worried sick and want to do everything I can for her.

The guy I got her from had her for 2 and a half years and he got her from someone else. I should have clarified that. When I said that, I meant that she couldn't be younger that 2 and a half years.

I have her in the ICU near my small piranha tank with the lights off. I can peek into the air hole in the ICU without moving it and disturbing it at all.

I did realise that the ICU is for dehydration and thought dehydration was a contributing factor in her molt getting stuck early on. I kept an eye on her water bowl and it did not look like she drank much in the past week or so. Before that, I could tell when she had been in there and drinking.

Anyway, I will update this thread when something changes.
 

curiousme

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
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Dec 11, 2008
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The guy I got her from had her for 2 and a half years and he got her from someone else. I should have clarified that. When I said that, I meant that she couldn't be younger that 2 and a half years.
Since most G. rosea are W(ild)C(aught), there is really no way of knowing how old your T is. If it makes it through the molt though, it should still have a good 15 years in it at least.(if it is female) Thanks for the clarification.

Once again, I am rooting for it and it now sounds like you're doing what it needs. Now it's time for the wait. Please do keep us updated.
 

heliman

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8
Well, she has been in the ICU for 24 hours now. We went to Fargo today and got home at 2am. I peeked inside the ICU and she has not curled up and her spinnerets have did move from the position they were in this morning before we left. She is on her back and they were pointing towards the bottom of the ICU (which, if she were on her feet, they would have been facing up). Now they are curved down around her abdomen. I took this pic in indirect light so it would not stress her if she is still alive.

I don't know how soon or even if she would go into a death curl if she wasn't alive. I am sure there are a lot of variables at play since she just started a molt, my ignorance in moving her, stress levels, etc.

I am just hoping that if she is still alive, that she pulls through this. I have been sick to my stomach all day over this and feel horrible.

Hope this pic goes through.

Will update if there are any changes.

IMGP1440 by heli_man, on Flickr
 

curiousme

Arachnoprince
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What are the little pieces on the right?

The 2 Ts we lost in molts both wound up in a death curl at the end. They were both smaller spiderlings though and not even half as big as your T. A good rule of thumb is to wait until it starts to give off an odor to declare it dead, so it will eventually be your decision whether it has died. It definitely isn't in a death curl now though, what that means though, I can't tell you. Since there has been some movement of the spinnerretes, me being an optimist wants to say to keep rooting for her, but me being a realist is saying something different. Once again, good luck and keep us posted.
 

Falk

Arachnodemon
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May 28, 2009
Messages
679
If the "t" is not severly dehydratded or leaking fluids dont put it in an icu!!!
 

curiousme

Arachnoprince
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If the "t" is not severly dehydratded or leaking fluids dont put it in an icu!!!
I would agree, but would you recommend that he move it at this point?

heliman said:
I did realise that the ICU is for dehydration and thought dehydration was a contributing factor in her molt getting stuck early on. I kept an eye on her water bowl and it did not look like she drank much in the past week or so. Before that, I could tell when she had been in there and drinking.
I forgot to say something about this, a visible sign of dehydration is the abdomen looking wrinkly. Here is a good thread with more information on dehydration signs.
 

Caramell

Arachnosquire
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Mar 14, 2009
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145
That T looks like a mature male. I think I see tibial spurs(more visible on the left) and the palps look very red and swollen to me. Ventrally, it is definitely male. I'm now very sure that this is just a MM attempting a post-ultimate molt. If that is the case, then there's a high likeliness that it will not make it through.
 

Falk

Arachnodemon
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May 28, 2009
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That T looks like a mature male. I think I see tibial spurs(more visible on the left) and the palps look very red and swollen to me. Ventrally, it is definitely male. I'm now very sure that this is just a MM attempting a post-ultimate molt. If that is the case, then there's a high likeliness that it will not make it through.
Good eyes you have:) I must agree, i zoomed in and i belive i see the same thing.
 

WARPIG

Arachnoangel
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Agreed MM, and either trying to molt to its doom, or on its last leg.

PIG-
 

curiousme

Arachnoprince
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That T looks like a mature male. I think I see tibial spurs(more visible on the left) and the palps look very red and swollen to me. Ventrally, it is definitely male. I'm now very sure that this is just a MM attempting a post-ultimate molt. If that is the case, then there's a high likeliness that it will not make it through.
I am horrible at sexing! I did see long skinny legs, but that was all.

heliman~ do you see little hooks on the back of the front 2 legs? Not the small arm like appendages up front.(pedipalps) I am afraid that my eyepatch has caused me to miss them in the photo!:( Since it is a M(ature)M(ale) then you can take comfort in the fact that most do not make it through another molt, so you have not really altered the outcome. We just lost a MM A. avicularia last week that acted as if it was going to molt several times before finally assuming the final death curl. Perhaps that is what was happening.

I assumed that it was a definite female, because you called it she. Many assume their T is female until it 'hooks out' and we have done so with one T. :eek: The hooks(on the legs) and the bulbs(on the pedipalps) are like neon signs to let you know it is a MM(but not all species have hooks), but no such thing for females! If you are lucky enough to get the fresh molt before the T rips it to shreds, they are easier to sex.
 

heliman

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8
After looking into it more, I do see the little hooks and the bulbs. It is a male. I was told by the kid I got it from that it was a female. He was going to kill the T if nobody bought it, so I stepped up to the plate. It's obvious that this is my first T.

So, being a male that went into his 'final molt', but still hanging on...what should I do? Is there ANY way possible for him to come out of it? The spinnerets were in a different position than they were last night, so there is movement going on.

What would you do? If there is no chance that he will come out of this, would you put him in the freezer or keep up hope that he will, by some chance, pull out of it??

I don't want his last days to be bad ones, but at the same time, I don't want to freeze him if there was any possibility that he pulls through.

Thanks for all of the replies! I really appreciate it.
 

Caramell

Arachnosquire
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It is unlikely that he will pull out of it, since I assume he's been mature for a while. How long have you had the T, and has it ever molted in your care? If it hasn't molted since you've aqcuired it, then it's been a MM since you got him. G.rosea mature males tend to live longer after their ultimate molt than other species.
I would refrain from disturbing further. You could freeze him if you'd like, but personally I would wait until he passes. You'll know when he has when there is a very different odor coming from him.

I had an avicularia MM before he passed, I miss him. :( But that's life.
 

LisaD

Arachnosquire
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Jan 21, 2010
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heliman, sounds like you have learned a lot from this experience. you got some great advice. I'm sure you will have a smoother time with the next T.

I don't know if euthanasia or leaving it would be best. I haven't raised any of my Ts to MM yet. The oldest ones I have grown up from spiderlings (slings) are female.
 

heliman

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8
That is pretty much what I was thinking. I have only had him for about 2 months and he has not molted in my care. I think I will wait until he smells dead before doing anything.

He was pretty active in his initial molt before it stuck. After I made the mistake of moving him, he mostly shed the part covering his book lungs on the bottom of his abdomen and my reasoning for carefully removing that part of the shed was because I read that if that part covers the book lungs, the T may be suffocating. I took extreme care/caution when I removed that part of the shed. The molt was fairly active up until that part of the shed looked like it was covering the book lungs. After the T had been in a dormant state for about 6 hours, I made the decision to put him in an ICU.

I read that the humidity level in the ICU could help with a stuck molt. That and the fact that he did not eat or appear to have had any water the week prior to the molt, I thought he might have been dehydrated.

Will keep the thread updated.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions!
 

heliman

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8
lisad - I have learned a lot from this and think that my next T will be a lot smoother. I would like to get a female G. rosea for my next T. This one is/was very docile and didn't mind being handled.

The only reason I picked this one up was to keep it from getting killed. A kid in a frat house had him and said it was going to be killed if someone didn't buy it and I didn't want to see that happen, so it was kind of an impulse buy, but I became attached and really enjoyed the T. I am going to do some more reading here over the next couple of days and order a female G. rosea online before the temps start dropping too far to order here in North Dakota. The local pet stores here don't carry them so online ordering seem to be the best choice right now.
 

Londoner

Arachnoangel
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Mar 21, 2008
Messages
846
I've had a few MMs attempt a post-ultimate molt but never had one make it. In each case, I let things play out and never used the freezer. All the cases of successful molts I've read of seem to end with a weaker T that died a short time later.

Kudos to you for taking on the responsibility and welcome to the hobby :).
 

heliman

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8
Well, the T's spinnerets have moved since this morning, but still no sign of him recovering. Legs have not curled and the abdomen is about the same. No funny smells coming from the T either. Still keeping my fingers crossed and hope he does pull through. Not getting my hopes up too much though.

Thanks for all the support!
 
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