result of RF rosea x rosea?

[metallica]

Originally posted by Telson
Exactly how and why is this a wasted mating?

you can't breed them with "normal" because there is "red" in there blood, you can't breed them with true "red", cause there is "normal" in there blood. here you have a truely beautiful red female, freshly molted, now is your time to know if it is genetic and what do you do? mate her with a normal male...........

 

[Grael]

so in other words some G. Rosea have a ginger gene?lol and its not always passed onto thier kids. but maybe some.

but i dont see how even though i dont know anything about inverts that much, how whatever it eats is gonna change its hair colour???????

 

[Lopez]

Originally posted by metallica
you can't breed them with "normal" because there is "red" in there blood, you can't breed them with true "red", cause there is "normal" in there blood. here you have a truely beautiful red female, freshly molted, now is your time to know if it is genetic and what do you do? mate her with a normal male...........

Hmmm....how about mate her with a "normal" male, and mate her with a "red" male, and compare the eggsacs? Surely a more valid experiment?

 

[metallica]

sure, a very good experiment, but i would mate her with a red male first! we both know how long it can take a rosea to drop a sac. i just know Joost is going to hit his head to the wall if tomorrow somebody has a adult red male, and no female!

 

[Telson]

Originally posted by metallica
you can't breed them with "normal" because there is "red" in there blood, you can't breed them with true "red", cause there is "normal" in there blood. here you have a truely beautiful red female, freshly molted, now is your time to know if it is genetic and what do you do? mate her with a normal male...........

Who is to say for sure if this freshly molted WC red female (or male, as in my case) was not from a sack produced by two commons? Or vise versa? Or from a mixed pairing? Or that one of the parrents were from a mix pairing? These two color morphs occur naturally in the same geographic regions and as 90% of the specimens on the market are WC there is most likely a mixed pair somewhere in their family tree already. This is why I do not see the problem.

If someone is aiming at creating a "pure line", perhaps your take on matters would apply, but as we are not trying to separate G.rosea in to two separate pedegrees by selective breeding, I simply can't agree with you.

 

[Lopez]

Originally posted by metallica
sure, a very good experiment, but i would mate her with a red male first! we both know how long it can take a rosea to drop a sac. i just know Joost is going to hit his head to the wall if tomorrow somebody has a adult red male, and no female!

Ah, good point. Mine was mated in August and I'm not expecting a sac until next spring at the earliest to be honest. I found a normal phase male hard enough to come by, never mind a red phase. I thought this things were supposed to be common! =D :?

 

[metallica]

normal males are no problem here, we just don't see the red to often.....

 

[Telson]

I also mated mine in August. A sac was produced in Sept. and I opened it this month. My male was a red and female was a common. Niether of us was aware the other had a match or we liekly would have ouwnd up just trading them, lol!

 

[Lopez]

Originally posted by Telson
I also mated mine in August. A sac was produced in Sept. and I opened it this month. My male was a red and female was a common. Niether of us was aware the other had a match or we liekly would have ouwnd up just trading them, lol!

Wow, that is FAST!

 

[Telson]

Kept her at about 82 degrees with a target humidity of 60% +/-5% vaiation.

Only one egg found in the sac that didn't "hatch", and I got around 200 slings currently at 1st instar, give or take a dozen. Haven't separated them out and gotten an exact count yet.

 

[metallica]

Originally posted by Telson
I simply can't agree with you.

that's the beauty of a free world, we don't have to agree on everything! i'm not condemning you or Joost, it's just something i would not do! if i buy a spider, i want to be sure what i get, with this breeding you can't give me any guarantee.

 

[Telson]

Originally posted by metallica
that's the beauty of a free world, we don't have to agree on everything! i'm not condemning you or Joost, it's just something i would not do! if i buy a spider, i want to be sure what i get, with this breeding you can't give me any guarantee.

True.

I enjoy discussing opposing point of view when niether side is attempting to force their views on the other. This is a very interesting topic and I'd like to hear more of your side of it. Is it that you believe the two color morphs to be seperate subspecies with a genetic difference that makes you feel this way towards mixing them? If so, I'd like to understand why you think they are geneticly different, as opposed to the color difference being a matter of diet or other conditional variation?

 

[Charlie]

I would be interested in an update as to how many of your slings end up to be red phase.

-Charlie

 

[Telson]

I've been told it can take as long as 3 years for G.rosea slings to reach a size where the adult color shows up, so I doubt I'll have a large number of them by then. I've already made arrangements to part with 150 of them.

 

[metallica]

Originally posted by Telson
Is it that you believe the two color morphs to be seperate subspecies with a genetic difference that makes you feel this way towards mixing them? If so, I'd like to understand why you think they are geneticly different, as opposed to the color difference being a matter of diet or other conditional variation?

i believe that there has not been enough research on theraposids in general. this said, then who am i to decide that these spiders are just morphes of each other or diffrent species.
as long as this is still unclear, i would look at them as diffrent species, just to be save!

my collection consists of Brachypelma and Poecilotheria, i never took time to check on natural distribution of Grammostola.

 

[metallica]

Originally posted by Telson
I've already made arrangements to part with 150 of them.

how did you do that?? here in Holland we give them away, couse nobody wants them as sling

 

[Telson]

Originally posted by metallica
how did you do that?? here in Holland we give them away, couse nobody wants them as sling

I just traded them off to a dealer.

Originally posted by metallica

i believe that there has not been enough research on theraposids in general. this said, then who am i to decide that these spiders are just morphes of each other or diffrent species.
as long as this is still unclear, i would look at them as diffrent species, just to be save!

my collection consists of Brachypelma and Poecilotheria, i never took time to check on natural distribution of Grammostola.

That is reasonable.

 

[ArachnoJoost]

Originally posted by metallica
i believe that there has not been enough research on theraposids in general. this said, then who am i to decide that these spiders are just morphes of each other or diffrent species.
as long as this is still unclear, i would look at them as diffrent species, just to be save!

You're probably right. To be honest, this was my first T mating, and I was looking forward to seeing them mate so much, that I didn't think things over quite as well as I should have. You live and learn I guess. That said, I've seen very few normal phase males for sale (or breeding loan), only a few in Harmelen, let alone RF males.
greetz,
Joost

 

[the new guy]

no one is posting, so i decided to pull up the oldest thread possible. im just really bored.

 

[ArachnoJoost]

obviously