red hair under fangs??

[Travis K]

And, to presume red hairs are warning coloration requires that predators have sufficient color vision, which isn't necessarily the case.

All this speculation "bugs" the hell out of me. Kirk, do you have anything to add to this that is actually academic sounding. I see the logic in Evolution to a point, but statements like those mentioned previously kinda get under my skin. I would truly respect and appreciate your thought on why "most" Ts have red hairs on their maxilla and chelicera.

PS, for those that want to argue for or against, bring the dreaded evolution discussions to the waterhole, or better yet just don't cause they are so freaking old. Oh and Chone1, I would also be interested in your thoughts on evolution related to Abiogenesis via PM or Wateringhole.

 

[Kirk]

All this speculation "bugs" the hell out of me. Kirk, do you have anything to add to this that is actually academic sounding. I see the logic in Evolution to a point, but statements like those mentioned previously kinda get under my skin. I would truly respect and appreciate your thought on why "most" Ts have red hairs on their maxilla and chelicera.

PS, for those that want to argue for or against, bring the dreaded evolution discussions to the waterhole, or better yet just don't cause they are so freaking old. Oh and Chone1, I would also be interested in your thoughts on evolution related to Abiogenesis via PM or Wateringhole.

I have to plead ignorance when it comes to knowing anything about tarantula phylogeny. It's just not my area of research. So, speculating on 'why' some T's have red-colored hairs and others don't might still be an open question.

There are two issues that can confound things. First, the color of hairs on/around the chelicerae might be phylogenetically and/or structurally constrained. I.e. hair color is a consequence of producing some other feature, or hair composition/color evolved as a consequence of some selective pressure other than for warning.

We could set up experiments re warning coloration capacity, but that requires consideration of the color perceptions of predators. Plus, if it's the case that nearly all T's with and without brightly colored chelicerae present them as a threat display, then this calls into question that the red hair condition was a consequence of active selection.

I'm always happy to talk about evolution, and abiogenesis. I'll keep my eye out for it in the WH.

Kirk (aka Chone1)

 

[rustym3talh3ad]

ok lets not turn my thread into a crap show...we started to get somewhere with this for a min, everyone was spouting opinions about threat display and such but as was stated a bit ago, theres no proof that animals can see the different wavelengths of color. i mean if they could see red then why the hell would we use Red heat lights? that would just be outrageously stressful to the animal. and if they cant see red then why are we trying to agree that its for defense purposes. if i were color blind how would i know that the red ment anything at all? these are more practical discussion points to work with becuz we may start to see it has nothing to do with color at all...but eh im not scientist and i havent found a dang thing on the net about the red coloration.

 

[Kirk]

these are more practical discussion points to work with becuz we may start to see it has nothing to do with color at all...but eh im not scientist and i havent found a dang thing on the net about the red coloration.

Another aspect of threat displays is to make yourself look bigger than you really are. This happens with some fish, reptiles, birds, mammals, etc. The best way for a T to look bigger is to rear up on it's front legs and expand out the pedipalps and chelicerae. I suspect that sort of presentation will say more than color.

 

[Mister Internet]

Ok, the thread has been sanitized. You guys realize this is the ON TOPIC section of the boards, yes? If you can't keep it on topic we'll lock the thread. It's up to YOU as to whether or not you wish us to treat you like adults or children. Thanks.

-MrI