recluse spider?

[Venom]

There have been people who have had good luck using nitro patches to treat recluse envenomations. It seems the vasodialating effect of the Nitro counteracts the vasoconstriction caused by the venom and prevents necrosis.

Nitro treatment would be fine if all the venom did was kill tissue by constricting arteries. However, as it is a cytotoxic ( cell-destroying ) venom, dilating the arteries is--in my mind--akin to shooting yourself in the foot to scratch a mosquito bite. Increasing circulation to the bite would help the spread of venom into your circulatory system, and thereby increase your chance of a "viscerocutaneous" envenomation, in which the venom destroys gobs of red blood cells and junks up your kidneys. If it were a minor bite, I'd just tough it out, or lance/ amputate the affected area before it spreads. Why use a treatment that increases your chances of getting something worse? And in any case, dilating the arteries and improving bloodflow will not stop the cell-destroying action of the venom--only an antivenom would do that--it could only spread the antivenom around so the effects aren't as noticeable ( decreased effect by dilution in more tissue ), which, as I said, increases your risk of systemic involvement. Sorry to say, but as far as I've seen, there is no magic bullet for loxoscelism short of cutting the whole bite out.

 

[Natco]

Sorry guys, I know this is a few days old, but I have been off line for a while (using the parents computer….) In a book entitled “The Red Hourglass” by Gordon Grice the author states that (and I am paraphrasing here) the recluse venom varies greatly in its effect of different people. Some experience the Necrosis mentioned here, others have died without the Necrosis, some experienced long term decreased immune systems, and still others seem to have suffered little effect at all. What do you guys think? Has anone else red the book? If not it’s worth reading. It’s well written, and very interesting, and enjoyable. Also; do any of you guys have references of recluse enom studies? Personally I find the whole topic quite interesting.

I also think they make interesting pets.

Thanks all!

 

[bugmankeith]

I get those spiders coming in my basement each summer, they are the biggest spider I ever see come into my house.

 

[bugs4life]

L. reclusa is the most common spider I ever see in my house. Speak of the devil, I just swatted one right now. They're like the only spider I kill, not because they're scary or evil, just because there's so frikkin many of them. It's not like I'm putting the species in danger ;-) I've lived with them all my life and haven't been bitten once...well if I have, it wasn't severe enough for me to notice. I must make it sound like my house is cluttered and filthy...nah, I mainly see them here in the unfinished basement. And in the bathroom, they like water. Sorry, I'm just babbling now...

Anyhoo, if you really really want some, I could easily catch some and send them to you, free. I'd send you like a buttload in case some died on the way. So yeah, if you're interested just message me.

 

[bugs4life]

With a recluse bite, there's nothing you can really do.

You can get the infected area removed. Easy ;P

 

[8ball]

Brown Recluse?? You're crazy lol, I did a project on the Recluse in 6th grade i wouldnt mess with those spider's they're bad.

 

[ShadowBlade]

You can get the infected area removed. Easy ;P

*Cough *Cough... What????:? :? :wall:

Um... Real recluse bite? BADD.........
Don't get caught up in all the stories people say of Recluse bites not being so bad. Even physicians will say they've seen tons of 'recluse' bites, but the REAL ones, bad news.

I don't have a problem with responsible people keeping them. But don't kid yourself or anyone else about the seriousness of a bite.

 

[Amanda]

He got bitten by a brown recluse (L. reclusa) in Florida?

We've got PLENTY here in Florida. My brother's first grade teacher lost one of her legs below the knee because she walked out one morning to get the newspaper barefooted. I also spoke to a local ER doc (we were admiring the same tarantula at a LPS) a few months ago who said that the numbers of bites they see spikes dramatically between Thanksgiving and Christmas because people bring their Christmas trees home in the evening and often leave them lying in the yard overnight to set them up the next day. The recluse spiders move right into the damp tangled tree overnight and strike when mom or dad opens the tree up the next day. He said that patients almost always have repeated surgeries to remove dead tissue, and bloody whirlpool baths to look forward to.

Keep them if you want, but PLEASE be careful for your own sake, and for your family's and neighbor's sakes, don't let it get loose. I wouldn't recommend telling anyone either. They might be likely to burn your house down or throw a bug bomb through your window.

 

[David_F]

Are the trees brought in from out of state? Any idea where?

....strike when mom or dad opens the tree up the next day.

If you mean "strike" as in run away from the larger creature as fast as possible then yes, I agree that they "strike" when mom or dad opens the tree. If you mean "strike" as in shoot out with fangs bared and bite anything in it's path then I'd say you've never seen a recluse.

Keep them if you want, but PLEASE be careful for your own sake, and for your family's and neighbor's sakes, don't let it get loose. I wouldn't recommend telling anyone either. They might be likely to burn your house down or throw a bug bomb through your window.

Since I don't have a current range map for L. reclusa I won't argue about your claim that they're present throughout Florida. All I say is that someone needs to start collecting these spiders and turn them over to someone who will create a current range map.



But as far as keeping them....Eh, most likely no one would care that I keep them in captivity. It's the recluse you don't see that can hurt you. The ones in nice, clear, escape-proof containers can't hurt anyone. And besides, if they're gonna start burning houses down over a couple recluses they'd have to burn the entire state of Kansas.....not that that would be such a bad thing.

 

[Amanda]

Many researchers are now suggesting that they do infact range throughout most of the US. It's possible that the Christmas recluses were imported with the trees, but the teacher was bitten in the early Fall.

As to the other question... Of course I don't mean that the spiders rush out fangs-a-blazin' to bring death and destruction to anything on two legs. My brother and I saw Arachnophobia with our parents when I was 10 and we laughed our way through the whole thing. Then we came home and tossed a fuzzy into each of our two B. smithi enclosures. ;P

I know they aren't predatory toward humans, it's just that their defensive bites can be quite damaging. L. reclusa is the ONLY spider found locally that I am even the slightest bit wary of. Even black widows are almost never deadly, even without antivenin, and they won't rot your flesh off.

 

[Stylopidae]

Don't get caught up in all the stories people say of Recluse bites not being so bad. Even physicians will say they've seen tons of 'recluse' bites, but the REAL ones, bad news.

There have been positive (spider was captured, etc) recluse bites that were only as minor as a blister. There's also quite a few species of bacteria that can create a necrotising wound, as well as snakes, etc.

Almost any necrotising wound is diagnosed as a brown recluse bite, even in areas where the recluses are absent from. That is why I'm skeptical of any bad recluse bite where the person didn't catch the spider and have it ID'd.

Doctors are not arachnologists and often they just write off the cause of a necrotising wound on brown recluses.

Do a quick google search and see how many people have been bitten by brown recluses in the state of Oregon (or any state north of Iowa.) Then look at this distribution map.

 

[Venom]

Cheshire,

That map is fairly accurate, but there are exceptions. There are indeed Loxosceles in parts of Florida:

http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/enpp/ento/loxoscel.html

 

[Stylopidae]

that distribution map was for native species, L. reclusa and L. deserta at least...maybe a few others.

Although, I had no idea that there were non-native loxos in FLA.

Probably should have figured.

 

[Venom]

Probably should have figured.

Lol, yeah. Just about everything non-native is ending up in Florida these days ...pythons, iguanas, T's, loxos..

 

[ShadowBlade]

I think 'ranges' of spiders in the United States is kind of pointless. If it goes halfway up the East Coast, your gonna find them atleast a couple states higher then that. And with all the transportation etc. that happens in the US, spiders end up established everywhere. It's not like Arachnologists (Or whatever) walked up the East Coast through the woods untill they couldn't find anymore of that particular spider. Our climate isn't varied enough at close places to find the 'dead end' range of a spider.

But yeah, Florida is becoming a hodgepodge of animals from everywhere, which is kinda cool if you go there to find stuff from out of the US. But it's gonna make the Everglades pretty messed up for awhile.

 

[bugs4life]

And besides, if they're gonna start burning houses down over a couple recluses they'd have to burn the entire state of Kansas.....not that that would be such a bad thing.

HAHAHA! I'm in Kansas too, I totally know what you mean! 18th B-day, ding ding ding, I'm outta here.

 

[ShadowBlade]

And besides, if they're gonna start burning houses down over a couple recluses they'd have to burn the entire state of Kansas.....not that that would be such a bad thing.

And every other state in the Mid and Southern US. Just for starters.:wall:

 

[bugs4life]

*Cough *Cough... What????:? :? :wall:

.

Lol take a joke, duuuuuude

 

[ShadowBlade]

Lol take a joke, duuuuuude

You'd be surprised how many people actually believe that... Duuuuuuuuudettte

 

[Stylopidae]

And every other state in the Mid and Southern US. Just for starters.:wall:

Hey...I take offense to that, being from Iowa and all.

Now where's my sister?