Reckless or Reasonable?

[Sauga Bound]

I tried to post this earlier, but got distracted, then turned off the computer later without realizing I hadn't yet posted the new thread. Sorry for the length. If you'd rather skip the background and cut straight to the chase, skip to the fourth paragraph.

Anyhow, let me explain the title of the post a little. I'm going to give some background, so please be patient...

I am a new tarantula keeper. I have always been fascinated with spiders, but never imagined owning one until, one day, I did. I ordered a small juevenile G. Pulchra from a breeder and met them at a convention, where I picked up the spider (I named her Noche.) She was gorgeous and I was spellbound. I read everything I could find about tarantulas, created an account here so I could ask for advice as I learned how to be a good tarantula keeper. I actually came here to solicit advice a couple of times just after I bought her and members helped me quite a lot. That was before I had a chance to really start consuming the literature on keeping tarantulas, listening to many of Tom Moran's podcast episodes, and watching youtube channels like Dave's Wee Beasties, Tom Moran, and a couple others. I enjoyed the experience of having Noche so much that I decided to get another one at the next convention.

I bought a juvenile GBB (named Dia) and picked it up at the next month's expo like I did with Noche. She was bigger than advertised - about 3 inches and with her adult colors - and seemed quite...leggy. I suspected she might be a male, but I'm waiting to see, hoping that isn't the case. Next time she molts, I hope I'll be able to snag it mostly intact so she can be accurately sexed. Regardelss of whether she is a he, I absolutely love them. They are increadible hunters with voracious appetites, amazing speed, and she has thoroughly webbed up the area around her burrow. I've enjoyed having her at least as much as my Pulchra, so I decided to go shopping again after a couple months.

My third spider purchase was an Avicularia Juruensis, or the Peru Purple (named Violetta.) I was very much looking forward to picking her up at the last expo, but a two-day snow storm prevented me from driving to the venue safely. I have an amazing enclosure ready for her, but I have to wait until the end of March to pick her up at the next expo. I could have her shiipped, but I know the breeder is taking good care fo her, so I'll wait for theexpo in March to picke her up

The title of my thread comes from my fourth purchase, which was entirely unexpected and I think some may criticize me for it. That's fair, but I'd like to know if people think I was reckless or reasonable in my decision, and if they have any advice for me. I buy my feeders at local shop that mostly sells exotic fish, repitles, and birds. They usually have a couple tarantulas for sale, and they seem to be kept in decent conditions, by people who know what they're doing. Last week, I went to buy some crickets and saw a gorgeous juvenile H. Pulchripes, about 3.5"-4" diagonal legspan selling for $70. She was out in the open, in a large arboreal enclosure, with a couple inches of substratre and one of those log cabin hides. Despite her less-than-ideal setup and the hundreds of people walking by her every day talking loudly, parrots squawking, dumb kids tapping her enclosure and so on, she seemed so chill and just hung out in the middle of the tank. I didn't buy her then, but the seed was planted.

I went home and spent the next week reading everything I could find on H. Pulchripes (which isn't much) and keeping species like the OBT, which seems to favor the same kind of setup as H. Pulchripes. What I did read said about what I expected, except it noted that the species is known for being more docile than many OW T's. I never planned to buy her, but one day I compulsively called to ask if she had been sold, and when I learned she was still there, I rushed over to buy her. The transfer from deli cup to the enclosure I made for her went very smoothly, and while she locked herself away in a piece of cork for the first couple days, now she is out and about, exploring her new home and finding the best places to chill.

I don't have enough experience to know this is true, but I learned from Tom Moran and others that proper housing plays an important roll in a spider's disposition and can neutralize a lot of defensive behavior. I've tailored all my enclosures to be large enough to house the spider comfortably, with room to grow, places to hide and burrow, and with the correct amount of substrate and appropriate "landscape" features. I set up my new H. Pulchripes (her name is Dora, as in dorada, or golden) in a medium-sized Exo-Terra Faunarium that's close to three times her legspan, has an average of 4" of substrate, a cork hide, a starter burrow inside an upright round of cork, some fake plants, and various sticks and dried plant parts around the periphery as anchor points for her web. She also has a little water dish in a corner of the enclosure.

Building her new home, I had to soak the Plantation Soil a bit to get it to break up, but squeezed all the moisture I could from it while building up the bottom layer. Then I was able to break off dry sections to form the top inch or so. I had done the same with Dia's enclosure and she is very happy there. The moist substrate that makes up the base will dry out over the next 2-3 weeks, and she has dry substrate to walk on in the mean time. Today, she emerged from the cork during the day and stayed out all day. I watched her for hours, captivated by her beauty. I'm going to offer her a cricket or two tomorrow, but she looks healthy and well-fed. I was thinking of starting her on 1-2 adul crickets per week and see if her abdomen remains a healthy size. If it starts to get bigger, I'll dial it back.

I have tongs, a wonderful paintbrush set just for my T's, and all the other euipment I need to work with her safely. I believe that I can care for her wihout any major problems because I think her setup is good, her attitude (at this point) is relaxed, and I've done my reading (and will continue to do so.)

Well, that's a lot of exposition to get to the ultimate question - was I reckless or reasonable to buy this gorgeous spider? I'm aware that their bites can be nasty and their speed is greater even than a GBB, but I am going to proceed cautiously and maintain my vigilance when feeding or doing maintenance in her enclosure. That said, I am very excited for her to start webbing up the enclosure, where her colors will really pop. She's such a gorgeous specimen. The question is, am I an idiot for buying her with less than four months of spider husbandry experience? Perhaps I am, but I'd like to know what other members think and if they have any advice for me.

Thanks for your patience reading my little

 

[viper69]

specimen. The question is, am I an idiot for buying her with less than four months of spider husbandry experience?

Yes

 

[Sauga Bound]

Yes

Very insightful, thank-you.

 

[Mustafa67]

The question is, am I an idiot for buying her with less than four months of spider husbandry experience?

Yes, I also agree

 

[Sauga Bound]

Why do you think there will be a bad outcome? What kind of mistake will I make?

 

[Mustafa67]

Why do you think there will be a bad outcome? What kind of mistake will I make?

It’s easy to get complacent with an OW which behaves well initially and can lead to underestimating its speed and aibility. It will have potent venom and how fast it can move should be remembered. This is why the ladder system is promoted within tarantula care. Small mistakes with OW’s lead to problems for you or the T, which is easy for the inexperienced or when underestimating him/her.

 

[Andrew Clayton]

Why do you think there will be a bad outcome? What kind of mistake will I make?

Nobody said you're going to make a mistake. They answered you're question of are you an idiot for buying this with only 4 months of Tarantula experience. This T is a lot faster than you think coupled with much stronger venom, steps should have been taken 1st like getting a fast new world, at least if that escapes on you during a rehouse it's not potentially dangerous.

 

[Sauga Bound]

It’s easy to get complacent with an OW which behaves well initially and can lead to underestimating its speed and aibility. It will have potent venom and how fast it can move should be remembered. This is why the ladder system is promoted within tarantula care. Small mistakes with OW’s lead to problems for you or the T, which is easy for the inexperienced or when underestimating him/her.

Thank-you!
This is the kind of advice and information I was hoping to hear from experienced keepers. I have the spider, I have to take care of it. Do you think I'm and idiot, but also, can you help my to be less of one?

I do not believe that a bite or an escape is inevitable as long as I am vigilant and take my time learning the spider. Hell, maybe I should only feed her in the bathtub until I can appreciate her speed. I DO NOT want to make her go into fifth gear and teleport out of fear. My GBB does that sometimes and it's impressive. Hell, even my Pulchra has put on her boots and motored around the enclosure like Mr. Wheeller because I made a mistake.

I'm doing the reading and research, but I'm hoping that advanced keepers can answer the second part of the question as readily as they offer their opinion to the first. It's easy to say I messed up, but how can you help me keep this spider safely and gain experience with it?

I know its moves put vintage James Brown to shame, but what can I do to mitigate the danger? Many hobbyists keep these spiders safely. I've learned from some of them, but I would like to hear from other advanced keepers advice to help keep this spider as safely as possible.

 

[Andrew Clayton]

Thank-you!
This is the kind of advice and information I was hoping to hear from experienced keepers. I have the spider, I have to take care of it. Do you think I'm and idiot, but also, can you help my to be less of one?

I do not believe that a bite or an escape is inevitable as long as I am vigilant and take my time learning the spider. Hell, maybe I should only feed her in the bathtub until I can appreciate her speed. I DO NOT want to make her go into fifth gear and teleport out of fear. My GBB does that sometimes and it's impressive. Hell, even my Pulchra has put on her boots and motored around the enclosure like Mr. Wheeller because I made a mistake.

I'm doing the reading and research, but I'm hoping that advanced keepers can answer the second part of the question as readily as they offer their opinion to the first. It's easy to say I messed up, but how can you help me keep this spider safely and gain experience with it?

I know its moves put vintage James Brown to shame, but what can I do to mitigate the danger? Many hobbyists keep these spiders safely. I've learned from some of them, but I would like to hear from other advanced keepers advice to help keep this spider as safely as possible.

We all keep stuff like this safely by working up to it, Rome wasn't built in a day bro. You can't compare the speed of any old world to a GBB or Pulchra, yes they can move when they want to but old worlds teleport, you will not see it move, even a simple mistake during maintenance/cleaning could spook it and it's off.
Keep it in a bigger than needed enclosure to try and minimise the risk and use the search function to research care needed for you're species.
If you're interested in doing it properly though should look into the Psalmopoeus or Tapinauchenius genus they are good intermediate species to get used to the speed.

 

[Sauga Bound]

Nobody said you're going to make a mistake. They answered you're question of are you an idiot for buying this with only 4 months of Tarantula experience. This T is a lot faster than you think coupled with much stronger venom, steps should have been taken 1st like getting a fast new world, at least if that escapes on you during a rehouse it's not potentially dangerous.

Thank-you for your comment, friend. I appreciate the advice.

I have tremendous respect for these animals and even my GBB's speed is shockingly fast.

I know this spider can be much faster and more skittish than a GBB, and that gives me tremendous respect for it. I've set her up really nicely and given her multiple places to hide.

What are some things I should be worried about and how can I prepare for them? I use tongs to work in my T's enclosures, and only bother my girls to feed or water them. That said, how do you think routine maintenance can be dangerous to a keeper so I can be safer when doing these necessary chores?

Thank you

 

[Andrew Clayton]

Thank-you for your comment, friend. I appreciate the advice.

I have tremendous respect for these animals and even my GBB's speed is shockingly fast.

I know this spider can be much faster and more skittish than a GBB, and that gives me tremendous respect for it. I've set her up really nicely and given her multiple places to hide.

What are some things I should be worried about and how can I prepare for them? I use tongs to work in my T's enclosures, and only bother my girls to feed or water them. That said, how do you think routine maintenance can be dangerous to a keeper so I can be safer when doing these necessary chores?

Thank you

There is nothing that can prepare you for there speed bud using a bigger enclosure will help. Routine maintainance I wouldn't say is dangerous but is probably the time you're going to get a bolt, these are heavy webbers so when removing bolus that could potentially be caught up in the web, the T could jump at the tongs, with there speed you will get a fright there's no doubt about that and at that point anything could happen whether it be you just drop the lid or that or the T is now half way up you're arm. This is just one thing that could happen but the list is endless and it all comes with experience, I can't explain that to you. It could also all be plain sailing for you, you never know though so that's why it's advised to work you're way up to old world T's especially going from only having new world Terrestrial species this is a bit of a jump.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

Honestly, it really depends. Definitely soon to get an OW, and it probably would've been a better idea to have started with a sling or small juvenile so you could gain experience along the way. That said, I suggest that you dive into videos that provide good examples of safe transfers and really demonstrate safety protocols. This is a spider which has venom that packs a punch, and can be very fast moving. The best way to handle this is to avoid putting yourself in situations where you risk being bitten. Obviously, no handling. I'd also put this tarantula in a larger enclosure to start with so that you can avoid multiple rehousings. Give the tarantula many hiding places and plenty of substrate so it can burrow sufficiently. Most tarantulas will try to hide first before becoming defensive. Always make sure that you know where the spider is before you open the enclosure to do maintenance, and always have a catch cup within reach if it decides to bolt. Don't tong feed- some very food motivated spiders will run up the tongs and possibly bite. Common sense....don't reach into the enclosure with your bare hands, even if it's for something quick. Use tools to create some space between the tarantula and your hands. Most bites occur on the hands and forearms. Give the tarantula a chance to settle and hide before you try doing anything in the enclosure. Take safety seriously, because a bite from an OW can land someone in the hospital. Don't do something stupid that risks your safety or that of the spider.

 

[Stu Macher]

No you weren't an idiot. One of my 1st T's was a P metallica Now, idk countless OW T's i haven't been bitten once and my interaction with them has been uneventful in terms of escapees or bolters. Why? Because I don't give them the opportunity and I use my brain. Despite what you watch and what you read. It isn't rocket science.

If you're an adult, you can make adult choices. Nobody but you is caring for your T.

Don't try to outwit your T or be quicker than they are. Watch videos, read info, gather as much as you can. But do what works for you. Don't do something because Jo Schmo says it's great but you feel uncomfortable doing it.

Remember your safety and the safety of your T.

Great choice, that's a beautiful sp.

 

[Sauga Bound]

Thank-you so much to everyone for the excellent comments!

You are helping me think of situations where maintenance could go wrong, rehousings for sure. It will only have to be rehoused once, in a year or two, and I have a huge Tarantula Cribs enclosure that was originally meant for my Pulchra, but she won't be big enough to use that for years, lol.

What you are saying, Andrew Clayton, is interesting because it cuts to the heart of a husbandry issue - boluses. With my Pulchra, I only ever found one bolus. She does a ton of digging and moving dirt, so I'm assumning she is burrying her victims/poo because I almost never see it.

As for my GBB, I also dont catch it pooping and there's only one small spot on a leaf. She's also a surreptitious shitter. The issue is her boluses. They are woven into the depths of her web, so removing them would mean removing all her webbing. I've hesitated because I know destroying her web completely is going to make her VERY upset. That said, if it's what needs to be done, I'll do it. I figure using some tool to wrap it up quickly is best. Dia will definitely come rushing out of her burrow looking for a fight. That's what happened when it was just a couple boluses and the web wasn't so thick. She got extremely upset because I couldn't remove the bolus without taking the entire web with me.

Now, she has a few boluses scattered in the depths of her web, but I haven't seen most of them. This worries me because her burrow is impossible to reach without digging it up. There is no way for me to do that safely with her inside the enclosure. I'd have to put her in a deli cup while I take apart her webbing and dig up her burrow to clean it. She's only been living in it for six weeks.

I've put off doing it because I don't know if such drastic action is required. I can see how doing that to a T would drive it completely bananas, and the chances of receiving a bite would be much higher. More worrisome is stressing the spider and destroying all the trust we've developed. Capturing the spider and keeping it in a deli cup while I clean out its burrow is risky and I'm not sure if it's worse to leave the webbing alone or destroy it all to remove the boluses? Also, how can I keep webbing free of boluses with heavy webbers? When I first tried to remove a bolus from my GBBs webs, it was so sticky that the entire web began to get caught on the tongs as I tried remove the bolus, and as I pulled, the entire web structure came with it, stretching a couple of inches.

By this point, Dia was piiiiiiiiised. She came charging out of her burrow and climbed the side of the tank. I quickly shut the lid, waited for her to return to her burrow, then reopened her enclosure and did my best to fix the damage without doing more.

So yeah...boluses are a major pain in my...boluses, haha.

Thank-you so much to those leaving comments with advice, explaining the risks, encouraging me to learn, and assuring me that I can do this. You are awesome and the reason why communities like this are so valuable.

I find Dave's Beasties does some great rehousing videos with OW species and Tom Moran has been an excellent teacher and source of knowledge for me. As a fellow teacher, I share his passion for learning. I may email him for advice. He seems like the kind of person who will reply, even if it takes a while. I also watch Tarantula Kat's videos because she is able to keep some of the most advanced species in the hobby without 20-30 years of experience, and gives insight into a more typical tarantula owner than the guys who can afford entire climate-controlled basements or large rooms with built in shelving, lighting, tracking, and a custom work station.

I've watched some of the youtubers like Dark Den, Tarantula Collective, Someone's Lair, and I've visited European tarantular boards and perused their archives. What do you think are some good YouTube Channels, podcasts, and sources of information that you would recommend to an idiot like me? lol

 

[spideyspinneret78]

Most tarantulas are very clean animals and will often deposit most of their boluses (and sometimes feces) in a corner of their enclosure or an area outside of their burrow....most commonly their water dish of course! If there are a few boluses that are deep inside the webbing/ burrow, sometimes it's just not worth the stress to the tarantula to destroy parts of their webbing. Now if there was an entire dead cockroach that was stinking things up or a live feeder insect hanging around, then it may be warranted.

 

[l4nsky]

Did you have any previous experience keeping or handling exotic animals prior to acquiring the G. pulchra and out of curiosity, how long ago did you acquire the G. pulchra?

IMHO, a lifetime of field herping prior to acquiring exotic inverts did lessen my own learning curve and admittedly I did start with OW tarantulas, so I can't necessarily throw stones in this situation. I can give you a bit of advice though as someone who started off by jumping into the proverbial "deep end" and managing to swim.

I don't have enough experience to know this is true, but I learned from Tom Moran and others that proper housing plays an important roll in a spider's disposition and can neutralize a lot of defensive behavior.

Yes, this is true IME as well. If you setup the enclosure properly to encourage natural behaviour for the species, almost all specimens will choose to flee when properly startled rather than fight (there are always exceptions, but they should be few and far between). This makes the routine, day to day care of NW and OW tarantulas fairly similar, which can lull many keepers (both completely new and experienced alike) into a false sense of security, however the consequences of a mistake are still a stark difference between OW and NW.

While properly designed enclosures can lessen you're potential risk, they won't give you the experience or capability needed in scenarios where you might have to recapture an over-eager or spooked adult OW during a feeding session, dig the animal up successfully without provoking or spooking it during a rehouse, or in the worst case scenarios, give you the confidence needed if you have to pin the animal for medical care, help it in some other way requiring you to be hands on (ie stuck molt), or remove the animal from your body should you accidently misread a situation and expose yourself to inadvertent handling.

The key to most of these situations is just remaining calm with no sudden movements, however there is no amount of books, videos, or articles online that you can consume which will impart the experience and self control needed to do this successfully in a stressful situation.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

Keeping

Did you have any previous experience keeping or handling exotic animals prior to acquiring the G. pulchra and out of curiosity, how long ago did you acquire the G. pulchra?

IMHO, a lifetime of field herping prior to acquiring exotic inverts did lessen my own learning curve and admittedly I did start with OW tarantulas, so I can't necessarily throw stones in this situation. I can give you a bit of advice though as someone who started off by jumping into the proverbial "deep end" and managing to swim.


Yes, this is true IME as well. If you setup the enclosure properly to encourage natural behaviour for the species, almost all specimens will choose to flee when properly startled rather than fight (there are always exceptions, but they should be few and far between). This makes the routine, day to day care of NW and OW tarantulas fairly similar, which can lull many keepers (both completely new and experienced alike) into a false sense of security, however the consequences of a mistake are still a stark difference between OW and NW.

While properly designed enclosures can lessen you're potential risk, they won't give you the experience or capability needed in scenarios where you might have to recapture an over-eager or spooked adult OW during a feeding session, dig the animal up successfully without provoking or spooking it during a rehouse, or in the worst case scenarios, give you the confidence needed if you have to pin the animal for medical care, help it in some other way requiring you to be hands on (ie stuck molt), or remove the animal from your body should you accidently misread a situation and expose yourself to inadvertent handling.

The key to most of these situations is just remaining calm with no sudden movements, however there is no amount of books, videos, or articles online that you can consume which will impart the experience and self control needed to do this successfully in a stressful situation.

Keeping calm is definitely one of the most important things. Mistakes are made when people start panicking....flinching at sudden movements, making poor decisions, etc. Moving slowly and predictably, and being patient are really important. Sometimes it's better to give the animal a minute to calm down instead of reacting immediately and escalating the animal's stress.