RCF Male Breeding with Normal Female Rose Hair

[dban]

I've got an RCF male and normal female.

So I was wondering if I were to breed them would their kids be a lighter red color (somewhere between rcf and normal)

Half RCF and half Normal

All RCF (if the rcf gene is dominate)

All Normal (if normal gene is dominate)

Thanks,
-Dan

 

[reverendsterlin]

in normal genetics you would get all normal looking slings het for RCF but I'm not sure if T genetics works the same. If the normal female was a het I think you would get about 50% RCF 50% NCF. Just not real sure if T genetics is the same or not. There is one way to find out lol.
Rev

 

[dban]

Yea, that makes sense, it should be applicable to T genetics....cept rose hairs grow so slowly we may not find out for years.

Has anybody done this before and seen results?

 

[WyvernsLair]

in normal genetics you would get all normal looking slings het for RCF but I'm not sure if T genetics works the same. If the normal female was a het I think you would get about 50% RCF 50% NCF. Just not real sure if T genetics is the same or not. There is one way to find out lol.
Rev

Actually if the RCF gene happened to be a co-dom instead of a recessive you would get a mix of RCF's and normals - there would be no hets involved.

 

[Drachenjager]

this is all of course assuming that you actually do have 2 ts separated ONLY by a color phase. You may have 2 different species.
The larger brownish roseas seem to be a different species to me than the red phase
and since grammostola is a mess like some others species (think avicularia, aphonopelma) who knows. My big brownish female just eats the red phase males ... my red phase female is probably still too small to breed .

 

[GOMER113]

I've got a normal phase MM and a RCF female. I've been thinking about mating them to see what happens. But, I also have a normal phase female and I'm waiting for her to molt before pairing her up with the male. If she takes too long to molt, I'll try with the RCF female first.

 

[ShellsandScales]

I wouldn't mix them in case they are a seperate species. We just don't know at this point and its not a rare enough or valueable($$$) enough species to take the chance. Just wait and be patient. Plus if you HAVE to breed your t's asap they are inexpensive enough to find the proper mate and purchase it. Just in case. If you breed them anyway just make sure the buyers know what they are and where they came from so if they end up being different species people will know that they've gotten hybrids. PLEASE AT LEAST DO THIS if I haven't convinced you to just be patient and find the proper mate. There are people that would likely work out a breeder loan with you to get you the right T!

 

[IncyVinceySpiders]

i agree with shellsandscales! we really dont need more hybrids in the hobby or to mess any more genuses up.... i mean what if they are two seperate species? i think you should just get the correct mate for the T

vincent

 

[gvfarns]

Hmmm. I thought it had been definitely shown that both forms can come from the same sac and that they are definitely the same species. Breed two RCF and some of the spiderlings will be the normal color form. There's no difference in range in the wild, right? So if they breed for us, they must be interbreeding in the wild as well.

I don't have first hand experience in this, but my understanding was that the question of whether breeding these two color forms was already established and that it was not a problem.

 

[dban]

Hmmm. I thought it had been definitely shown that both forms can come from the same sac and that they are definitely the same species. Breed two RCF and some of the spiderlings will be the normal color form. There's no difference in range in the wild, right? So if they breed for us, they must be interbreeding in the wild as well.

I don't have first hand experience in this, but my understanding was that the question of whether breeding these two color forms was already established and that it was not a problem.

So would their offspring be most likely a mixture of rcf and normal? Both of each?

 

[gvfarns]

So would their offspring be most likely a mixture of rcf and normal? Both of each?

Unless I have been misinformed, yes.

 

[ShellsandScales]

Yeah, I just read earlier in the post that someone said they may be different species. I personally have never looked into it because I'm not a huge fan of the rosies. If they are proven to be the same sp go right ahead but if there is any doubt why take a chance on something that is very available.

 

[Scott C.]

....shown that both forms can come from the same sac....

That's the word I had considered final.... but they certainly do look very different.

Personally, I see no reason to breed them... There're a bunch of RCF floating around your local group dban. You can breed your dude with them. You could also pick up a regular male easily... Either way, good luck bro.

 

[WyvernsLair]

That's the word I had considered final.... but they certainly do look very different.

That could also be a genetic trait that happens to be linked to the red color whereas not with the normal colored ones.

 

[gvfarns]

Might want to stick with the RCF anyway because that will maximize the number of RCF slings you will get and the world can use more of them. They are more valuable and desirable in general. If you are going to go to the work of raising them up from little slings, let them be red.

 

[WyvernsLair]

So would their offspring be most likely a mixture of rcf and normal? Both of each?

Yes people have gotten a mix of both colors in the same sac. Whether the red color form is a recessive or a co-dom trait would still need to be proven. Fun though a lot more time consuming than like with ball python genetics.

A recessive example:

Albino x normal = normal looking babies that all carry the gene for albino (i.e. they are het albino). You would have to breed the offspring back to the visual albino parent or to other normal snakes that are het albino in order to maybe produce albinos.

A co-dom example:

Bumblebee x normal = you would get a theoretical equal chance/mix of bumblebees, normals, spiders, and pastels. (A bumblebee is a ball python expressing both the pastel and spider gene). Because pastel and spider are both co-dom traits, there are no "hets" for hidden genes like there is with the albino example.

 

[ShellsandScales]

Well, has anyone bred a normal rosie to a normal rosie and gotten RCF from the sac? That would prove that RCF is not codom. If not then it is most likely co-dom.

 

[reverendsterlin]

recessive, co dom, same species, different species, same genetic treatment as other not tarantula species? Boy, can we show any better how much we don't know and how little the research field looks our way? We think we know how it should work but base that on how it works with mammals and reptiles. Several of the questions that call that into doubt won't be looked at by the few doing research (the hybrid aspect) and there are other more interesting species filling the attention of those few trying to sort out genus/species aspects, and until those aspects are worked out the genetic aspects have little chance of being figured out lol. And nearly everyone has little support for amateur breeding trials that 'might' get into the market. Makes it really hard to find definitive answers.
Rev

 

[fartkowski]

Does anybody have any concrete proof that RCF and normal rosies come from the same sack?
Has anybody ever successfully bred the two different color forms?