rattlesnake road....!!! the myth exsists!

[codykrr]

ok i have heard of people searching for the "rattle snake road" in illinios, well i know where it is. i grew up in that vicinity too:wall: this information came from my dads mouth.

he said growing up as a kid(in southern illinios, pulaski county) he heards of a road that would be covered in rattle snakes....well he didnt belive it so he went down a road the locals call "grape vine trail" which is the road. he said it is very very protected due to the high concentraition of rattlers in the area. and theres always a conservation agent nearby. but they will let you get out and take pics. in the arly spring to late fall the road in blocked off for migrating snakes. there is supposidly the largest know den of rattlers in the midwest right off the road about a mile away. now my dad is aman of his word so i have no doubt, but he doesnt care for rattlers. so he hasnt been there often. he is going to give me the acuall road name so i can map quest it. i will post it here as long as no one robs anything, which would be hard anyway due to strict conservation agents running about.

 

[loxoscelesfear]

there is a snake road in union county IL. It is closed for the spring and fall migrations and thankfully the animals are afforded full protection.

 

[Craig]

I really want to go down there to take pictures but I can not get any of my friends to come with me. Sad, because I have the next week off from work and I have a burning urge to take reptile pictures.

 

[UrbanJungles]

Cody, you might want to reconsider.
it's not good etiquette to disclose the location of a protected rattlesnake den, which I'm assuming are timbers. All it takes is one person to come in an destroy a few adults to devastate a den. They are far and few these days.

http://web.me.com/urbanjungles/Site/Timber_rattlesnake_den.html

 

[codykrr]

urban...yeah true. but seeing as how its so protected im not sure anyone would get a chance. but i wont post it....either way. next time i go to my families, there going to show me. and im going to take tons of pics.

 

[Craig]

Yeah, C. horridus are threatened in Illinois. I could see some jerk just reading this (a non AB member) going and finding this location and trying to collect rattlesnakes. So maybe you should not post that info.

 

[UrbanJungles]

urban...yeah true. but seeing as how its so protected im not sure anyone would get a chance. but i wont post it....either way.

Trust me Cory, I work closely with Fish & Game here in NJ where poaching is a major problem...they aren't getting the protection they need. These days with budget cuts affecting state agencies I couldn't see 'round the clock protection for wild snakes ever happening. The site may not be a myth but being (physically) protected by an officer probably is, albeit a well-intentioned one at that.

People don't realize how sensitive these Timber sites are, all it takes is one reckless jerk to ruin thousands of years worth of site fidelity. If you come across a timber site, you should keep it to yourself and guard it carefully. It may not be around for your grandkids.

 

[codykrr]

ok i wont post it up..but atleast i can say it isnt a myth any more. haha...and urban..ivebeen called "cory" my whole life i guess its easily mistakin with cody?:?

but your a first to call me that on the net:clap: i may as well chage my name haha

oddly enough, my wifes name is corie...... and she has been called cody..several times.:wall:

 

[UrbanJungles]

ok i wont post it up..but atleast i can say it isnt a myth any more. haha...and urban..ivebeen called "cory" my whole life i guess its easily mistakin with cody?:?

but your a first to call me that on the net:clap: i may as well chage my name haha

oddly enough, my wifes name is corie...... and she has been called cody..several times.:wall:

Sorry man, believe it or not it was a type o, I know your name was Cody..see my first post! Post pics of anything you find! - make sure you don't include any identifiable landmarks in your backgrounds <-- Herping etiquette rule #2.

 

[snakebytes]

I am very familiar with the area being discussed. I did my undergrad in southern Illinois and was at "snake road" many times each spring and fall over the course of 4 years. Over that time I saw literally hundreds of snakes. Probably about 80 % of those were cottonmouths. Timber rattlesnakes are no where near as common in that area and are rarely seen. I only saw a handful over the years compared to the cottonmouths. I have never heard anything about there being the largest den of timbers in the midwest at this site and highly doubt it. There are a couple other areas in that county that seemed to have bigger populations of timbers.

As for revealing the specific location of a den, it is a huge NO NO. Many herpers are not even comfortable with revealing sites to their close friends. A disturbance at a den site can greatly decrease the number of snakes that return there next year. There has been research done to show this. Just because the area and animals are protected doesn't mean that they are safe.

Scott Ballard, the state herpetologist of southern Illinois , is very protective of this area and most likely will not give you any slack. He once told me a very gruesome story about his interaction with poachers at the area that helped me understand why he is so strict. It is against the law to even have a snake hook there. Although I have seen him there often, he has a large area to patrol. Other herpers that have been going there for years are also very protective of the area and will keep a close eye on other people they see there. With that said, I still would not give out any info on specific den sites. People have done this before and been left with an empty den that they thought they would get to enjoy for many years.

 

[ThomasH]

I highly doubt that you saw true Agkistrodon piscivorus in Illinois. Have you any pics? They live in the extreme south of the state. If you found them in Illinois you would pretty much have to be right on the KY/MO border.
TBH

 

[snakebytes]

I highly doubt that you saw true Agkistrodon piscivorus in Illinois. Have you any pics? They live in the extreme south of the state. If you found them in Illinois you would pretty much have to be right on the KY/MO border.
TBH

Yep, they were Agkistrodon piscivorous. And the site that is being talked about is one of the southern most counties in Illinois along the mississippi river. I do know how to tell the difference between the other water snakes there, mainly Nerodia erythrogaster, and the water moccasins. Its very surprising to see just how common they are right on the edge of their range.

BTW, I'm a wildlife scientist and herps are sort of my "specialty."

edit: what was I thinking. This is the internet. Nothing I said means anything without pics

one of about 30 agkistrodon seen on a rainy spring day:

one of the few rattlesnakes seen over the years there (baby):

 

[ThomasH]

Yep, they were Agkistrodon piscivorous. And the site that is being talked about is one of the southern most counties in Illinois along the mississippi river. I do know how to tell the difference between the other water snakes there, mainly Nerodia erythrogaster, and the water moccasins. Its very surprising to see just how common they are right on the edge of their range.

BTW, I'm a wildlife scientist and herps are sort of my "specialty."

Ummm... Yeah. From the information given I now know where to find them! Thank you. j/k
TBH

 

[snakebytes]

Ummm... Yeah. From the information given I now know where to find them! Thank you. j/k
TBH

The actually area is very well know and plastered all over the internet in forums like these. On the herp forum I frequent there are at least a dozen posts from this area each migration. However, specific locations of dens sites are usually kept secret. Anyone who has been there knows that it is very hard country to get around in.

 

[ThomasH]

Under Illinois law it is illegal to possess venomous animals such as the Cottonmouth, but does the specific vicinity regulate the taking of them in particular?
By the way, beautiful pictures! Thank you for sharing. I just love the coppery tones in the eyes of Crotalinae sp.
TBH

 

[snakebytes]

I can't remember the specific designation of this area, but I believe taking anything is illegal.

 

[codykrr]

snake bytes....not sure about the truth of the den. but my ad said it was there....is been 20 years since he had been there but i belivehim when he said its there. he has alot of illinion conservationist friends and he said they have confirmed it. at least then. and as for the terrain in southern illinois being rough...you aint kiddin. like i said i wont disclose any info, i swear...ad thanks for not letting me..in the midst of excitement i kinda didnt think about it. and i appologize. also snake bytes...where in the area are you familiar with....because those used to be my neck of the woods. i grew up in cape giradue, and spent lots ofmy summers with my grandma and grandpa in pulaski county Il. i too have seen true cotton mouths atmy aunts place in pulaski, and i was acually chased by one a few years back.

they have acually grown in population down there due to the conservation dept, buyingand floodingout field to restore natural swamps.....

 

[snakebytes]

I have no doubt that 20 years ago there were some very big dens in that area. However, I think that the population of Timbers may now be much smaller than it was historically. As I mentioned in a previous post, there has been some heavy poaching that has happened there. Add to that the "disturbance factor" caused by it being one of the most well known herping hot spots in North America and you are left with a much smaller population. Don't get me wrong, you can still find them there, it just takes a little more luck and know how than it used to.

I went to college in Carbondale and spent a big chunk of my free time out hiking all over southern Illinois, western Kentucky and parts of Missouri. I am most familiar with the places along the Illinois river-to-river backpacking trail.

 

[Craig]

I highly doubt that you saw true Agkistrodon piscivorus in Illinois. Have you any pics? They live in the extreme south of the state. If you found them in Illinois you would pretty much have to be right on the KY/MO border.
TBH

Gotta love the internet. It is the only place a 14 year-old can question someone with a degree's expertise in reptiles. I love that people with almost no experience can question the validity of a statment made by a professional. It happens to me all the time.

I know where this site is also. Like I was saying I am on vacation from work this week and I was really looking to drive down there and take some pictures. I could not find a buddy to go with though (no one could get any time off of work). I have a couple of trusted friends that I would feel comfortable bringing up there and having them not tell anyone. One of these friends was with when I found a couple Sistrurus catenatus in 2003. She still has not told anyone the location of this animal. I did however tell someone I knew and highly trusted that was in academia because of the fact that the snake is endangered and very,very difficult to find.

btw. snakebytes awesome photos!

 

[snakebytes]

Gotta love the internet. It is the only place a 14 year-old can question someone with a degree's expertise in reptiles. I love that people with almost no experience can question the validity of a statment made by a professional. It happens to me all the time.

I know where this site is also. Like I was saying I am on vacation from work this week and I was really looking to drive down there and take some pictures. I could not find a buddy to go with though (no one could get any time off of work). I have a couple of trusted friends that I would feel comfortable bringing up there and having them not tell anyone. One of these friends was with when I found a couple Sistrurus catenatus in 2003. She still has not told anyone the location of this animal. I did however tell someone I knew and highly trusted that was in academia because of the fact that the snake is endangered and very,very difficult to find.

btw. snakebytes awesome photos!

I didn't mind him questioning me at all. The internet is full of BS.

I'm pretty uncomfortable with the term expert, even when used as "a degree's expertise." I think that word is thrown around too loosely. Its a little shocking how little some people know about the animal kingdom that graduated with degrees in biology and zoology.

If you do travel down there anytime soon, keep in mind that it wont be as awesome as the stories you hear during the migrations. The area is very cool though, and in my opinion, well worth the trip. If you do get skunked, there are all sorts of great places to check out not far away. So much of Illinois is boring, flat agricultural fields, but the glaciers missed the southern tip leaving all sorts of cool rock formations and topography.

Are you from east of the mississippi? The only reason I ask is because if you go into Missouri from southern Illinois you can find aphonopelma and centruroides.