Quick weekend trip south

[Drachenjager]

Again, a lot of tarantula identifications in the USA have been performed without proper comparison to the type material, so I'd take most IDs with a grain of salt.

The holotype of Aphonopelma echinum is from Colorado... there aren't any tarantulas in SW Texas even remotely similar to A. echinum (which is almost certainly another synonym of A. hentzi). The big brown tarantulas from A. mod country are something completely different... I have not been able to put a name on them yet.

SO what you are saying is the A. hentzi dosent exist in Texas? If, as you said, echinum is hentzi then most certianly it does exist in Texas and in a great number of places here as well. Personally i believe that a lot of the "species" that have been "described" are a morph of A. hentzi. But, if thats so, then all the morphs are still one species. Also, i dont know that A. moderatum even exists ... I know a few people will know from whence i speak.

 

[Brent H.]

i think I know why. lol I think it has to do with some people being more concerned with getting thier name attached to a species than doing proper taxonomy. Combine that with the inability to play well together and you get lots of people with pretty fair skills and equipment working on the same thing from differant angles but too arrogant or ignorant to share info and cooperate with each other.

I don't think this has been the problem with Aphonopelma taxonomy at all. Nobody is working on it (or at least not actively publishing). The Aphonopelma mess is an historic problem, not just a recent one. I am trying to start working on stuff and I have stressed cooperation between enthusiasts and researchers all along (that's the only reason I came to these boards in the first place). Some have been helpful, some have been adversarial.

It used to be that scientists were all about the science, now they are all about having thier name known. At least thats how it seems.

Care to cite an example?

I mean if the only reason you are studying a particular thing is to get a few more letters by your name, you have lost all respect in my eyes. If you get some letters after your name because you were doing somethign strictly for the science. kudos.
Science is the search for the truth , and it dosent matter if the truth is not what you want it to be or not. This requires a real scientist to allow that he can be wrong, and that somethign he believes to be incorrect just may be the truth.

I agree with you there.

I am still curious how anyone can state emphaticly that a particular species native to the USA IS NOT in Texas. That would mean that they have covered every square .25 inches and done full taxonomical work on all species they find...Heck covering every square mile of Texas would be a task lol

Science is about hypothesis testing. Hypotheses must be phrased in a manner that they can be proven false (hypotheses are never proven true, it is not philosophically possible -- read Karl Popper's work). My hypothesis is that A. echinum is not found in Texas. Can I prove that true? NOPE, for the very reason you stated. Can I prove it false? You bet -- I just need to find the species, and bam, I have falsified my hypothesis! I am not at liberty to discuss my preliminary data (this doesn't mean I am being too ignorant or arrogant to share info -- it needs to be published first), but I am sticking to my hypothesis.

 

[Brent H.]

SO what you are saying is the A. hentzi dosent exist in Texas? If, as you said, echinum is hentzi then most certianly it does exist in Texas and in a great number of places here as well. Personally i believe that a lot of the "species" that have been "described" are a morph of A. hentzi. But, if thats so, then all the morphs are still one species. Also, i dont know that A. moderatum even exists ... I know a few people will know from whence i speak.

A. hentzi is all over Texas, no doubt. I wouldn't really consider the other A. hentzi-like species a "morph", they are just examples of variation that can more than likely be found in all populations of the species. A. moderatum exists (there is a type specimen), it just might not be what most enthusiasts consider to be A. moderatum (most people will refer to Rick West's site, I am sure).

 

[Brent H.]

Oh yeah, if you were referring to A. steindachneri not being in Texas, read Tom Prentice's 1997 paper in the Journal of Arachnology. He goes into significant detail discussing why it is not there (or rather, why it is in California instead).

I am still curious how anyone can state emphaticly that a particular species native to the USA IS NOT in Texas. That would mean that they have covered every square .25 inches and done full taxonomical work on all species they find...Heck covering every square mile of Texas would be a task lol

 

[Texas Blonde]

A.moderatum :drool:

Oh wait, you guys like these?

 

[Galapoheros]

T bling bling! Looks like night shot? I'm hoping for a sac next year, a long wait.

 

[_bob_]

nice im gonna go out there soon with dave and trish

 

[syndicate]

great finds!the moderatum and the unkown species look beautiful!
your so lucky to live near them

 

[M.F.Bagaturov]

Hello Sky!

Does this place is far and how far from Big Bend?

Nice fotos btw.

 

[Texas Blonde]

Hello Sky!

Does this place is far and how far from Big Bend?

Nice fotos btw.

Sorry, but I cant give out the location where they were found. The moderatum are such a beautiful docile spider, that there have been many mass collections of them in the wild. We took a few females for captive breeding projects, so we can both release slings back into the wild, and also provide the hobby with this species in a more responsible way.

 

[Scott C.]

nice :clap:

nice pics too by the way.... I'm gonna be heading through the state again pretty soon it seems... can't wait. I'll be glad to see more of it while it's so saturated.

 

[M.F.Bagaturov]

Hi Sky!

Sorry, but I cant give out the location where they were found. The moderatum are such a beautiful docile spider, that there have been many mass collections of them in the wild. We took a few females for captive breeding projects, so we can both release slings back into the wild, and also provide the hobby with this species in a more responsible way.

I don't need the exact locale.
I ask just what I've asked - how far is it from Big Bend: does it far away or it is at some Big Bend place near in...
Th question is of the matter does this A. sp. "hobby moderatum" are share the same range as the type locale of the A. moderatum sensu D. Moelendorf...

 

[harrypei]

Hi Sky!

range as the type locale of the A. moderatum sensu D. Moelendorf...

good ol' Dave... you know him well?

 

[Texas Blonde]

Hi Sky!



I don't need the exact locale.
I ask just what I've asked - how far is it from Big Bend: does it far away or it is at some Big Bend place near in...
Th question is of the matter does this A. sp. "hobby moderatum" are share the same range as the type locale of the A. moderatum sensu D. Moelendorf...

Check your PMs. I think I might have answered your questions, lol.

 

[dragonblade71]

Some very nice photos, Texas Blonde and so great finding so many interesting specimens within a matter of hours. That A moderatum tarantula has got to be one of the most beautiful things I have seen in my life! I adore those contrasting colours. I think this may be the first time that I have seen photos of this species.

“Sorry, but I cant give out the location where they were found. The moderatum are such a beautiful docile spider, that there have been many mass collections of them in the wild. We took a few females for captive breeding projects, so we can both release slings back into the wild, and also provide the hobby with this species in a more responsible way.”

Good on you!

Supposedly, there is a species of tarantula that lives in my state of South Australia, Stirlingi, but I have never seen one. The Australian Tarantula Association encourages the captive breeding of our native tarantulas for the pet trade but I suggested to them the idea of releasing some of these captive bred spiders back into areas that have been cleaned out by collectors. Apparently, there are no immediate plans to do so but it coud be a possibility in the future.

 

[Gsc]

Many of the areas have been wiped out by over zealous commercial collectors. I've spent alot of time down there searching for A. moderatum. It's taken me a long time to find them. Sky and I kinda got lucky that day. If you haven't had the pleasure of going in the field with her, you're really missing out...Sky is AWESOME. Thanks for all the kind comments about our trip and her photos...

Cheers,
Graham

 

[dragonblade71]

Hey Gsc. My gosh, it sounds like that area has been hit hard by collectors. That must have been a lucky day indeed, the day of your field trip. Perhaps when I make a trip to the US oneday and I am in Texas, I could go out into the field with both of you...and your little dog too!

 

[Galapoheros]

This T has a huge range. There are 1000's of square miles of private prop it inhabits. I don't believe it's "in danger". But at the same time, the idea of destroying their environment on the side of the road and digging them up is not good. But the sp is not in danger. I feel I'm being realistic, ...I know, so does everybody else that disagrees. The world is what we see, and that's the side of the road. If it's not on the side of the road, it's gone. Obviously, after one thinks about it, that's not the case. I've seen males walking around on so many roads 100s of miles away from each other. 1000's of sq miles of private prop it inhabits between roads. I found my first mod in the late 80s but never knew what the mature males looked like until Dave told me. So good it is that there is private ownership of property. My intention is to discourage digging up the T's without the emotion, tactics and drama. The species is safe. I think captive breeding is what should be tried now. I know it's a little difficult to get slings, I tried it myself recently but still expect a sac next year. But these are like A. henzi that are colored a little differently. I feel there is a little hype going on here but, whatever. The most negative thing I can think of that upsets me the most, is when people go on private property without permission. Besides that being wrong at the core, it creates an unreasonable backlash, much like the new "herp" law that was recently passed in Texas. If digging up Ts on the side of the road becomes more popular, there is going to be a movement to create more laws. There's got to be a compromise somewhere. I will pick one up if I see it on the road, no digging for me though, ..just my opinion. I have to say that's easy for me to say since I have a couple. I sure would be tempted if I saw one in a hole and really wanted it. I did actually do some digging once when I saw one at night that had just started a bad hole on the road in a little pile of dirt a tractor was using for repairs. I saw the T while I was driving. I just think it might get out of control out there some day and they will even shut bugging down, that'd be a bummer.

 

[Gsc]

I somewhat agree Galopoheros... They do occur in a wide range down there (larger than I thought) BUT that habitat is shared with other tarantula species. I guess i should rephrase my origional statement:

Aphonopelma moderatum is scarace in areas where the public has access. I agree that on private land there are probably thousands upon thousands... plus I know they must range down into northern mexico BUT along the roadsides and other public places, populatipons have been DECIMATED. I will not post the name of a particular road BUT I know stories of a single commercial collecter taking well over 1000 individuals in one season.

Remember about 3 or 4 years ago when WC A. moderatum were on wholesaler's lists...they literally had hunderds for sale... $10 ea (wholesale that is)... That is sad...that many ADULT spiders taken in one season. That particular road has had a majority of the population wiped out... you hardly see them there anymore.... (there is alot of private land in that area... I'm sure that given some distance from public rightaway, the population is fine....).

Just my 2 cents...I could be wrong...

Graham

 

[padkison]

So... What is the reason A. moderatum is so hard to find as CB in the US if so many were taken by unethical commercial collectors? Is it because any interested collectors have a WC one in their house already? Or are people put off by the slow growth?

I searched for CB slings, but had no luck finding except through one seller, which I did not buy from. I ended up with two young adult WC females (being bred this fall) from two different people.

I hope to have CB slings for sale this coming spring/summer.

My bug room is at 80+ in the summer and 72+ in the winter and I saw nice growth in A. chalcodes, at least as fast as the Brachypelma slings I have. A friend had the same A. chalcodes slings and after 9 months(?) mine were 1.5-2x as big due to temperature difference.

Sorry if some of this is off topic.