Question about allergies and Tarantulas

[ReclusiveDemon]

I've read snippets here and there on this forum about this topic; what I've gathered is that there are some tarantulas whose venom you can not have an allergic reaction to? Can anybody knowledgeable clarify this for me?

 

[Formerphobe]

I'm sure others will have more scientific explanations, but it is my understanding that the protein type and molecular structure of tarantula venom is such that it does not induce an 'allergic' response. But, the venom potency in many species will cause a neurotoxic response that will vary dependent on size of spider, amount injected, location of bite, etc.

 

[tODDski]

If your allergic to bees and such, then most likely, Ts will give you the same symptoms. I've had patients that have had Anaphylaxis from Ts, but the treatment is the same as any other Anaphylaxis. You should know - by now - if Anaphylactic Shock is a concern.

Most of my patients got flicked and a few bites. I keep Old World Species now, because I'd rather avoid being bit then flicked. I've had some New World that made huge hair clouds. However, getting those hairs into your eyes or lungs is dangerous, and you will need immediate medical attention - no EpiPen will solve that.

I am not an Entomologist or Arachnologist, so I can not elaborate on different venoms, but the treatment is pretty much the same. Old World could require pain meds and/or muscle relaxers.

 

[Formerphobe]

Here's a bit of reading material.
http://venomics.eu/publications/VT4.pdf

From this, and other reading, it seems the peptides in tarantula venom are too small to be recognized by the human immune system as an allergen. The venoms are also highly specialized, and no tarantula, to date, has evolved to prey on humans.

The mechanics of a bite do open a Pandora's box of potential infection(s). Apparently the only documented human deaths from tarantula bites were due to secondary infections such as tetanus.

Urticating hairs are a different story as they can and do induce allergic reactions, worse in some people than in others. I could not, however, find any documented cases of acute anaphylaxis from urticating hairs. Ocular and upper airway involvement are definitely to be avoided. One would really have to be trying to get setae into the lungs. By design, they are intended to lodge in the mucous membranes of a would be predator.

I've heard people say, "the average tarantula bite is no worse than a bee sting..." I think underlying meaning is, most bites [of the average NW species] probably won't hurt any worse than a bee sting. Though a lot depends on the size of the spider...

 

[viper69]

An immune response can be generated with as little as 6 amino acids. An antibody only needs 3 amino acids to bind to a molecule.

Also, small molecules and even atoms, like Nickel for example, can generate an immune response when they bind to another protein first.

 

[Storm76]

I'm sure others will have more scientific explanations, but it is my understanding that the protein type and molecular structure of tarantula venom is such that it does not induce an 'allergic' response. But, the venom potency in many species will cause a neurotoxic response that will vary dependent on size of spider, amount injected, location of bite, etc.

Even if you have an allergy to bee venom - that doesn't mean you'll have the same effect from tarantula venom. Period.

As a sidenote: This is -exactly- why I hate the stupid comparison of a tarantula bite with a bee-sting - it gives completely wrong impressions IMO.

 

[tODDski]

To anyone who thinks that anaphylaxis or anaphylactic shock can't happen from a T bite you are wrong.

The truth is, and this comes from being a Combat MD, ER MD, and a Philanthropic MD for 21 years - any thing can be an allergen and cause anaphylaxis or anaphylactic shock, but it is always SUBJECTIVE.

I see know why the poster above is frustrated at the relation of Bees/Wasps to Ts venom. They are not the same venom and everyone will react differently to each different bite/sting. I did look up the venom when I posted originally here; but I got side tracked with prepping for and doing The Gumball Rally.

I stated above the SOP for such an incident; however, you still have patient subjectiveness to the bite/sting.

If it won't make your heart blow up or you know you're cleared, keep Benadryl Liquid Capsules close by. For reactions, take 2 liquid capsules, slice them open, and put them under your tongue. Cheaper than an EpiPen and does the same thing. Also, it could save you the co-pay of a trip to the Emergency Doc.

 

[vespers]

To anyone who thinks that anaphylaxis or anaphylactic shock can't happen from a T bite you are wrong.

Wrong? Not buying it. Proof?

 

[tODDski]

Well, I can't exactly throw files out here nor can I disclose personal information of my cases. I also can not discuss my Doctors Without Boarders experiences, because you sign NDAs in case your views differ from their's.

Just ask a Veterinarian, Entomologist, or Doctor, and they'll tell ya it is absolutely a possibility.

You should look and make sure you understand the definition of Allergen. Moreover, prove it to yourself - you won't be able to - I already know the answer.

 

[xirxes]

Well, I can't exactly throw files out here nor can I disclose personal information of my cases. I also can not discuss my Doctors Without Boarders experiences, because you sign NDAs in case your views differ from their's.

Just ask a Veterinarian, Entomologist, or Doctor, and they'll tell ya it is absolutely a possibility.

You should look and make sure you understand the definition of Allergen. Moreover, prove it to yourself - you won't be able to - I already know the answer.

Please do not assert credentials or quote source material of which you have no intention nor ability to support sufficiently.

I think we understand that anyone can theoretically have a reaction to anything at any time, even a dust mote, however the lack of data, references and even any regular anecdotal evidence over the last 45 years all point to there being "by and large" and functionally no known human allergic reaction to the tarantula venoms that have been injected to date.

 

[tODDski]

Like I stated earlier, ask a professional who does this for a living. I am a MD. That's my credential - what's yours? An opinion, theories, hobbyist or all three?

An allergen is not a theory. You might wanna look that up as well.

 

[xirxes]

I happen to be a marine ecologist.

I never implied that allergens are theoretical. I asserted that (in your defense) anything can theoretically be an allergen. I also implied that Tarantula venom, to the best of my knowledge, is not listed anywhere in medical science as a known allergen.

You might want to read what you are replying to.

 

[tODDski]

That's because the medicinal community could give two ****s about T bites. They won't kill you but anaphylaxis or anaphylactic shock can happen - no theories. Moreover, I have first hand experience locally and foreignly. I stated clearly the SOP earlier, and I certainly did not create the SOP.

That's a cool job, if I may ask, what is your current assignment?

As far as me - I went to M and wanted to be a Marine Biologist, but I went for a Bio-Physics BS. I have my masters in PT - I despised that job. Went to Emory and received my Doctorates as a GP. I've always been a professional rescuer, so the ER came naturally. I am now a MD who works as a defense contractor. No liability, better pay, and I get to heal and kill - it's a unique position. I just came back from Crimea and today I was offered another deployment. That's why I'm getting my Ts in order - check other thread I've participated in.

---------- Post added 06-19-2014 at 04:05 PM ----------

Some typos there, but hey, I needed a bourbon to think about my next assignment. I just got done with Gumball 3000 and my birthday. I need to relax my mind and body.

:^)

 

[xirxes]

Sounds like you are raking in the hazard pay!

I went to school aiming for veterinary medicine, but two years in and after a years internship at a vet clinic, too many spats/neuters/humdrum for me.

Turned toward coral reef conservation and marine ecology. Finished BS at UCSD, right as recession hit.

Masters and PhD weren't going to give me a return on investment, so started my own company focusing on design/consult/install and maintenance of aquatic ecosystems. 10 gal aquariums to multiple million gallon lakes.

In conclusion concerning allergies: don't get bit and it won't matter.