pygmy rattlers

[TheWidowsPeak]

so can someone please tell me what qualifies someone to keep one of these snakes... I was just wondering because since keeping non venomous snakes in no way prepares you to keep venomous ones... how does one prepare himself. and for those who do keep venomous snakes how did you knwo you were ready? I have done massive amounts of research I have read the bite reports. I will be doing everything in my power to avoid getting bit, and from this point on if you don't have anything helpfull to say please don't post. I understand you are just looking out for me. but as childish and stupid as you guys obviously think I am, I will be getting this snake there is nothing you can say that I havent allready read months ago. I am fully aware of the risk and I choose to acept the challenge and responsibility. and if I loose a finger then I still have 9 more where that one came from, If i die then you guys can say "i told ya so" and I'm not trying to be "cool" trust me I doubt if anyone other than my family will ever see the snake. I am doing this because I admire these snakes and I like a challenge. now from what I have read a pygmy rattler is the best beginers hot snake. its not like I am getting a cobra or a gaboon viper or a tiger snake. so if anyone has any advice and not a lecture please let me know thanks again.

 

[Code Monkey]

My take:

If you're not living on your own you have no business getting a venomous snake, particularly if you're not in 100% compliance with your local laws. As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, there are plenty of interesting snakes out there sans venom such that the only reason to keep a hot snake is to keep a snake that is hot. When you're on your own and paying your way such that the only people in the household are your spouse and dependents, that's when you can start with the experimenting with peoples fingers, toes, hands, and feet because you've got an itch that you insist can't be scratched any other way.

The last post about how you're going to do it no matter what others say is, as has also been pointed out, exactly why there are so many blanket bans on these reptiles or restrictive and expensive liscensing programs to keep them. It is an immature attitude to take and the powers that be decided, perhaps rightly with an animal that does pose a genuine risk, to just hose everybody rather than deal with someone who takes that stance. 10 minutes to the hospital equals 10 minutes until you risk losing all your other snakes and tarantulas and 15 minutes until you're just another sensational story on the news.

 

[TheWidowsPeak]

ok fine you guys win, I won't get it,,, for now at least... so what would you guys recomend in the field of snakes that are fairly eas to keep, aggression doesn't matter, and that not everyone has, I don't want a corn or a king, I also don't want soemthing that get over ten feetnow I hear that the green tree pythons are a bit tricky... what about tree boas. I don't geuss it has to be a snake either... what is a good exotic pet. that I can put in my new 55 gallon tank? that isn't too expensive. and you don't see everyday. I mean I work at a pet store and have seen allmost everything. just let me know what would make a good pet, the biggest stresser is easy to care for. I guess that it was CM someone I actually have respect for. no offense to the rest but I don't hear much from you guys.

 

[Telson]

Go for it!!!

I keep seeing all the reasons not to get this snake, and all the things that don't give you the "experience" to cope, but despite his asking, no one is offering info on HOW TO GET the so called "required experience". Sorry, but I'd probably be considered one of those "hillbilly rednecks" you keep refferring to who GREW UP catching western diamonbacks in California... I've caught and kept several because they fascinate me and I love to observe them, not for the sake of saying "Hey Zeek! Looky here!! I got me a rope with FANGS!!";P It sounds to me like JJJ is intersted in these venomous serpents for about the same reason I am, and he will very likely keep it in a responsible manner, continue studying and reasearching them, and gain the experience over time that everyone insists he needs.

The bottom line is this; experience is gained by DOING something, not by reading about it. I've kept western diamonbacks, a redtail diamonback from baja, and a copperhead when I lived in Kentucky. I kept them all in large glass terrariums with locking lids, never had one escape, never been bitten by one of my own venomous snakes, nor by one in the wild while collecting.

My only advice is this; be HELLA careful. Take all the precautions you can, even the ones that seem to be overkill. If bitten, make sure you inform the ER Dr what species bit you. In KY poeple get bit every year working the tobacco fields by rattlers and copperheads, as I'm sure you already know, so venomous snake bites are not something alien to any Dr. there who has half a brain.

Other than that, good luck.

 

[TheWidowsPeak]

see if I want the snake everyone talks me out of it... after I decide not to here comes someone talking me back into it... all I can say is I hope I can find something good to replace my venomous friend, the only thing I realy like is the green tree pythons and boas but hell they are so expensive.. I usually order from strictly reptiles ( do a search and you will find it) so if you can find anything from there list that would help me out a lot... I just can't decide.

 

[Code Monkey]

@Telson, I look at it like this: you can get the experience without a venomous snake by choosing a similarly defensive species and treating it as though its venomous for a period of a few years. If you can avoid *any* sort of tag in this period of time, you're ready to try a hot snake. But, even the tiniest scratch on your finger from that snake is proof enough you haven't gained the necessary skill to avoid getting bit without the inglorious trip to the ER.

It doesn't take much to get bit even if you think you know what your doing. I don't keep snakes as pets but I like to check them out up close when I find them in the wild. Just this past spring I got tagged on the thumb by a snake about the size of John's proposed pygmy rattler because I didn't have the grip I thought I did and a split second later it was chomping on my digits. Non-venomous snake equals playful ribbing from the wife for your poor Croc Hunter imitation, venomous snake equals a trip to the ER with weeks to months of recovery.

Your idea of "going for it" is like getting into rock climbing by gathering up some geer and heading for the nearest cliff face. "Oh, don't worry, it's just a small cliff..."



@John: I'm glad to hear you're rethinking it. Something like this isn't something to take lightly. If you can avoid any sort of bite until you've got a place of your own you are probably ready, but the 'kept snakes when you were younger' isn't the same thing as demonstrating conclusively to yourself that you're ready.

 

[Telson]

@ Code

All good points, and thanks for posting a manner in which to actually gain the experience rather than simply saying it's needed. Your suggestion regarding a similarly temperred non-venomous snake is a VERY good idea, and I DID catch a hella-lotta non-venomous snake species before getting anywhere CLOSE to a buzz tail, so that was indeed what probably prepared me for it when I started doing it.

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

I have lusted after Amazon tree boas for years, but I never have bought one. I just dont think I would want to tangle with a snake that aggressive. Maybe someday, but not now. They really aren't all that expensive, and the red ones are the most beautiful snakes I've ever seen. So if aggression doesn't bother go for one of those. I dont think I'd want the rattler though.

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by johnnyjohnjon
so to put it bluntly... and no offense to those just looking out for me, I AM getting this snake... so please don't try to talk me out of it, but please do give me as much advice you can.

But you have been given advice but those didnt suit you. Dont you think you might be thinking backwards - first you decide to get a venomous snake which you have to ask on a forum to get advice on how to keep. You dont answer how you gonna tube it or neck it. You just decided one day that you wanted a venomous snake, and choosed a small one. You dont know how the venom works and think its just a easy swelling and thats it.
Why should I give you advice? YOu seem to know it all allready!

Get knowledge BEFORE you get any animal.

/Lelle

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by HerpInvertGirl
I have lusted after Amazon tree boas for years, but I never have bought one. I just dont think I would want to tangle with a snake that aggressive. Maybe someday, but not now. They really aren't all that expensive, and the red ones are the most beautiful snakes I've ever seen. So if aggression doesn't bother go for one of those. I dont think I'd want the rattler though.

If you grab and restrain the snake it will bite. If you just let it use your hands as a tree - it wont bite. And if it bite, so what it wont kill you.

/Lelle

 

[Telson]

If your goal is to get a snake that will essentially train you to deal with venomous species, all I can suggest is find out the traits of the venoimous species you're interested in such as size, husbandry requirements, temperment, and so forth, and chose a non venomous species based on those traits.

Obviously keeping a G.rosea for a couple years won't prepare you for getting a P.regalis, and similarly, keeping an arboreal T with a bad attitude but mild venom won't prepare you for keeping a T.blondi. Try to think of it along those lines when considering what kind of snake to get for this purpose.

 

[Telson]

On the other hand...

If you're just looking for an interesting snake to have for the sake of having IT, disregard my last post. I've always thought green tree python and emerald boas were awesome arboreal snakes. Rainbow boas are another excellent non-venomous choice. To the best of my knowlege, neither will grow big enough to need their own room, which is always a good thin in my book.

There are some pretty kewl looking water snakes in the trade that I've seen too, but I don't recall the name of the species that comes to mind. It's mildly aggro, overall mud brown with an interesting pattern of darker brown to black. Matter of fact, it looks a LOT like some of the water snakes I've caught out there in KY and you could probably go to the nearest lake or river this time of year and get a few for free! I also like the tiny ring neck snakes I've caught out there.

Anyhow, I guess more questions are in order, and the first is this: Are you looking for a "trainer snake" to prep you for a venomous species, and if so, what venomous species? If not, then what traits are you looking for in a non-venomous species? Color, size, arborial/terestrial, agressive/docile tendancies, striking scale patterns, rarety in the hobby....?

 

[Poecilotheria]

If your looking at pygmys, I've heard they are very very nasty especially for their size. But eastern diamondbacks are nasty as hell but are a little laid back. I've had a few bullsnakes, a male in particular that hated life. He bit me once, and I freehandled him several times withought him biting me. Excellent rattlesnake imitators. And if you dont handle very often, it will get extremely aggressive. When the males was about 5 1/2ft. he was chocking down 7-8 mice at once, fat pig, lol. Also heard amazon tree boas are very mean and get about 5 1/2ft?
Steve

 

[Crotalus]

training snakes

I dont recommend anyone to get a training snake to start with. For ex a highly aggressive colubrid have nothing in common with a sluggish gaboon viper. All you get is a false sence of security.
The best is to get knowledge from a mentor how to deal with ven snakes.

/Lelle

 

[Crotalus]

Re: Go for it!!!

Originally posted by Telson
The bottom line is this; experience is gained by DOING something, not by reading about it. I've kept western diamonbacks, a redtail diamonback from baja, and a copperhead when I lived in Kentucky. I kept them all in large glass terrariums with locking lids, never had one escape, never been bitten by one of my own venomous snakes, nor by one in the wild while collecting.

My only advice is this; be HELLA careful. Take all the precautions you can, even the ones that seem to be overkill. If bitten, make sure you inform the ER Dr what species bit you. In KY poeple get bit every year working the tobacco fields by rattlers and copperheads, as I'm sure you already know, so venomous snake bites are not something alien to any Dr. there who has half a brain.

Other than that, good luck.

Experience is gained by keeping nonvenomous snakes to get knowledge of snakes in general, reading books, watching other people work with ven snakes, talking to experienced people. And after years getting a first venomous snake.
Its not for the average petco keeper. Thats what cornsnakes are for.

/Lelle

 

[Code Monkey]

Re: training snakes

Originally posted by Crotalus
I dont recommend anyone to get a training snake to start with. For ex a highly aggressive colubrid have nothing in common with a sluggish gaboon viper. All you get is a false sence of security.

I'm not so sure I follow you, while I agree that working with a genuinely experienced hot keeper with their specimens is by far the best, I don't see where mastering the snake hook & catching and restraining non-venomous specimens of a defensive nature for a significant period of time without getting tagged isn't a better method than "just doing it".

I'm personally not in favor of private individuals keeping hot snakes without being properly certified by an unbiased agency, but that's a bit of a pipe dream. It's a very illegal hobby in most of the U.S. and it's unlikely the average person curious about doing so is going to have access to a qualified mentor. Conversely (and a little oddly), our black market loving mentality gives anyone who really wants one access to them with some money and either a shipping location or a good reptile show.

 

[Telson]

Originally posted by Poecilotheria
If your looking at pygmys, I've heard they are very very nasty especially for their size. But eastern diamondbacks are nasty as hell but are a little laid back. I've had a few bullsnakes, a male in particular that hated life. He bit me once, and I freehandled him several times withought him biting me. Excellent rattlesnake imitators. And if you dont handle very often, it will get extremely aggressive. When the males was about 5 1/2ft. he was chocking down 7-8 mice at once, fat pig, lol. Also heard amazon tree boas are very mean and get about 5 1/2ft?
Steve

I agree with the bull snakes being very similar to rattlers in most regards, but actually in my own experience, they are even meaner than a buzz tail, which is proably good for training a person to handle rattlers. We call 'em gopher snakes out here and I've caught more of them than I can count, and knowing how to do it without getting tagged was what probably allowed me to catch my first rattler without getting bitten. As for the tree boas and other "mean" snakes, as I said before, a nasty arboreal isn't ANYTHING like a rattler, and would not serve the purpose here. They behave completely different in almost all respects and trying to remove it from the tree limbs it'll need in it's enclosure without a bite will in no way prepare you for getting a rattler out from under its shelter.

posted by crotalus:
I dont recommend anyone to get a training snake to start with. For ex a highly aggressive colubrid have nothing in common with a sluggish gaboon viper. All you get is a false sence of security.
The best is to get knowledge from a mentor how to deal with ven snakes.

I do agree that a dissimilar snake species in regard to behavior will do nothing for a person wanting to get enough experience to graduate to keeping venomous species, which I've repeatedly said, but barring taking courses at college regarding herpitology and focussing on venomous species, there is little else one can readily do to prepare themself IMO.

posted by crotalus:

Experience is gained by keeping nonvenomous snakes to get knowledge of snakes in general, reading books, watching other people work with ven snakes, talking to experienced people. And after years getting a first venomous snake.
Its not for the average petco keeper. Thats what cornsnakes are for.

Not trying to slam, but I'm kinda confused... did you not make BOTH of these posts or was someone else at your computer? You seem to be saying that keeping non venomous snakes doesn't prepare a person for keeping venomous ones, then the very next post seems to advocate it along with the research and study of the venomous species a person plans on keeping.

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

If you grab and restrain the snake it will bite. If you just let it use your hands as a tree - it wont bite. And if it bite, so what it wont kill you.

I have read accounts of these snakes being so agressive they will strike at you when you walk past the cage. Dont know how true that is, but it made me think again. Yeah, so it wont kill me, but I dont enjoy getting tagged and dodging bites any more than the next girl.

 

[TheWidowsPeak]

ok I still am not getting the snake... but the reason I didn't ask how to tube or neck it is because I allready know. to tube you put the snake in a bucket of water put the tube in front and stop it after it is halfway up by grabbing the tube and snake in a firm grip. just firm enough not to let the snake go any further up or back. ok now to neck the snake you place a hook just above the venom glands and grab the snake on the base of the head so it doesn't have room to turn and get ya and you use the classic three finger grip. I'm not just a moron who wants a venomous snake if I was I would get a cobra they are only like 30 bucks more. so please lay off once again I AM NOT GETTING A PYGMY RATTLESNAKE. for now at least. and plesae someone tell me a good snake to get that would prepare me for a pygmy rattlesnake.

 

[Telson]

@herpinvertgirl

Everything I've read, seen, or heard from those who've kept them indicates to me that this species will strike at anything that moves. They're known to snatch birds from midair as they fly past, so their reflexes are wound SUPER tight. They strike first and then decide if it was a good idea afterward, and they are designed for sinking those teeth through a think layer of feathers so they go deaap and will cut the crap outa you.