Public Library Ignorance NIGHTMARE!!

[Aviculariinae]

now i know what you think of nature no regard for it,why dont you chop down trees while your at it !its a wild animal it has a right to live the way it was suppose to live! in trees or on the ground, not in somebodys hand! Peoples property, if you could keep a hippo as a pet you probably keep that and try and handle it too!
We,ll just agree to disagree on this one

 

[sunnymarcie]

*ducking down as the FLAMES shoot over my long blonde hair*

OMG guys, be nice!;P


Handle T's...? Sure, sometimes. Thats a choice each person
has to make.

As for the person who took the T out WITHOUT the parent
present..........WELL, to put it very plain, I'd rip her face off!!

And the person who let the kids touch the T and its shed....
HE's an accident waiting to happen!! Allergies, eye sight issues...
asthma......He is the kind of person who could really damage
this hobby. What if something happened to one of those kids?

 

[AllenG]

this is a sensitive kind of subject...and my stand on it is this...

if it endangers the animal then it shouldn't be done....


monkey statements like "That's your perogrative to believe that, but it is every T owner's perogrative to do whatever they want with their Ts. If someone wants to get on the evening news every night wearing a live T. blondi on the top of his head, it's none of your business." bother me...

though I understand what you are trying to say just the way you said it can imply a lot of stuff...

now the problem is we are talking about T's which to many are insects...to some are children...

a statement like the one you made can come across just like saying "if someone is dragging their dog behind their car on the freeway it is none of your business"

which I hope you would make your business and report them for cruelty to animals...I am not peta and nor do I act like them...i am just pointing out that we should all watch the way we say things..i think this whole conversation got way off track and you two should just agree to disagree...

everyone is allowed an opinion and no one should attack someone for their opinion, but should try to provide useful facts that may someday help someone come to a new opinion


Code, i know you didn't mean that the way I put it (at least i hope you didn't ) but I feel a flame back at sham is coming after his last comment...and when i read what you said I figured SOME people might get the wrong idea.

I would be upset if I saw someone purposely endangering their T, however I agree that I don't see handling a T as endangering it...

I even heard a story here at work that one of our Tech's will put T's in his mouth ROFL...now that endagers the stupid Tech not the T...(hope he puts like Pokies in there hahaha)

Neway...I am not attacking anyone...can't we all just get along and you two agree to disagree? Can't we all hold T legs and love one another...=D

 

[Wade]

Originally posted by Sham,Tarantulas
now i know what you think of nature no regard for it,why dont you chop down trees while your at it !its a wild animal it has a right to live the way it was suppose to live! in trees or on the ground, not in somebodys hand!

Not trying to pile on or anything, but this argument is a slippery slope. If you're going to argue that it's wrong to handle a tarnatula because it's not natural, then a radical animal rights group could say it's wrong to keep them in captivity because that's not natural either. And they'd have a point, if we're going to grant them rights who's to say than that not being kept in a cage isn't one of those rights? By declaring that they have rights, we've given our enemies ammo to use agsinst us, even if our intentions are good.

Wade

 

[AllenG]

Originally posted by Wade
Not trying to pile on or anything, but this argument is a slippery slope. If you're going to argue that it's wrong to handle a tarnatula because it's not natural, then a radical animal rights group could say it's wrong to keep them in captivity because that's not natural either. And they'd have a point, if we're going to grant them rights who's to say than that not being kept in a cage isn't one of those rights? By declaring that they have rights, we've given our enemies ammo to use agsinst us, even if our intentions are good.

Wade

I decided to leave that bit out...hehe but a very strong point at that...

 

[Godzilla2000]

Originally posted by sunnymarcie
*ducking down as the FLAMES shoot over my long blonde hair*

OMG guys, be nice!;P


Handle T's...? Sure, sometimes. Thats a choice each person
has to make.

As for the person who took the T out WITHOUT the parent
present..........WELL, to put it very plain, I'd rip her face off!!

And the person who let the kids touch the T and its shed....
HE's an accident waiting to happen!! Allergies, eye sight issues...
asthma......He is the kind of person who could really damage
this hobby. What if something happened to one of those kids?

Hey. Wait a minute here. I'm the only one who should be breathing fire here since I am Godzilla2000.

But on the issue of handling, I think it depends on the owner and the Tarantula. Now mind you I will never handle my Cobalt Blue Luci or my Usambara Tang in a million years because of their temperament.

 

[Iktomi]

I have one more thing to say on this.

I have never started a thread that went so long.

 

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by Sham,Tarantulas
now i know what you think of nature no regard for it,why dont you chop down trees while your at it !its a wild animal it has a right to live the way it was suppose to live! in trees or on the ground, not in somebodys hand! Peoples property, if you could keep a hippo as a pet you probably keep that and try and handle it too!
We,ll just agree to disagree on this one

No, now you know what I think about a human being's absolute right to engage in a slightly risky behavior with a captive arthropod without the interference of a bunch of busy body dogooders who need to think a little harder if T handling is on their list of things wrong with the world.

On the other hand, I am reasonably certain I can disregard anything that might come flying off your keyboard as "a bunch of tree hugging hippy crap".

If you can come up with a rational explanation for why otherwise responsible tarantula keepers should be prohibited from handling their Ts because they're so special, but millions upon millions of homeowners throughout the world are free to kill billions of identically intelligent and emotive house spiders every year, I'll reconsider that last opinion.

 

[freetosting]

Excuse me but I think all you bloody Europeans are absolutly crazy, now excuse while I go smoke a fag.=D Peace

U.S.A
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U.S.A
U.S.A

 

[mdfic]

i think that everyone has made very valid points. i think that if the guy at the library had handled his T closer to the floor this wouldn't be an issue. one thing you can do is educate others on the safe handling of T's but you cannot stop a grown idiot from doing things the wrong way. besides this guy probably only has a t' because he thinks it makes him look cool or dangerous or something obsurd like that. who knows maybe one of those kids will grow up and get a t of his or her own and educate themselves on the correct handling of t's and maybe that kid will try and educate others. sometimes the right way to learn something is from watching someone else doing it the wrong way.

 

[Iktomi]

Nice sum up, mdfic.
Thanks for putting a cap on this thread!

 

[belewfripp]

Originally posted by Code Monkey
That's your perogrative to believe that, but it is every T owner's perogrative to do whatever they want with their Ts. If someone wants to get on the evening news every night wearing a live T. blondi on the top of his head, it's none of your business.

Do they have the right to? Sure. Within certain bounds people have the right to do whatever they want (whether that right is actually free to be exercised where they live or not). But there's a difference between what someone has the right to do and what they maybe should/shouldn't do. I'll be the first one to stand up and say that what someone should or shouldn't do is completely colored by individual biases and preferences and can't really be acknowledged as anything but a subjective opinion.

That said, it's my subjective opinion that when you take an animal into your home you take responsibility to care properly for it because you've removed it from an environment where it can take care of itself. There are exceptions to this (escaped tarantulas managing to surive for months in someone's home) but for the most part I think that's true. So, letting a rosehair crawl around you six feet above the floor does not strike me as particularly responsible.

However, I do think that the abject horror of this event has been overplayed a bit. I don't really think there's a whole lot to be feared from an Avicularia on your head. While they can injure themselves in a bad jump or fall, it is far less likely. I have had Poecilotheria leap from the top of my head to the floor unharmed. I also don't see the problem with letting the kids pet the spiders. Rosehairs and avics are generally docile and laid back and I know there are a lot of T keeps who have done presentations to kids with their Ts who have not only let kids pet the spiders but even hold them.

And lastly, I don't see the reason for being upset about the python. Yeah, a larger python can inflict a nasty bite, but most every one I've been around has been pretty laid back. Not to mention the guy seems to clearly have made a conscious decision to bring docile Ts in, so I can't imagine him bringing in an ill-tempered python. And a 6 foot python isn't going to be constricting and killing children.

So I agree that folks are overreacting to most of it, but not necessarily with some of the other reasons, not that anyone particularly cares.

Adrian

 

[Iktomi]

Perhaps folks are wondering if I, the evil one who started the thread, feel strongly enough at this point to defend it. The answer is...no.
I put it on there because I personally feel that this was an ignorant act, and as I've seen many times here, we point them out from time to time. If the pet store is taking poor care of their T's, sometimes we talk about it and some folks rescue the T's and that is nice. When I have the $$ I do the same. I think that a slow death or a quick death from a fall or any of the above scenarios is best avoided through education. I wouldn't even be as nasty as some of you have been to the guy who prompted me to start the thread in the first place!
Can't we all just get along? Is that soo wrooong???

 

[belewfripp]

Originally posted by Sham,Tarantulas
now i know what you think of nature no regard for it,why dont you chop down trees while your at it !its a wild animal it has a right to live the way it was suppose to live! in trees or on the ground, not in somebodys hand! Peoples property, if you could keep a hippo as a pet you probably keep that and try and handle it too!
We,ll just agree to disagree on this one

While in a certain way I can sympathise with the spirit behind this, the fact of the matter is that I hardly see how being in someone's hand can be any worse than being in your home instead of in the wild. It's already been completely removed from its natural state, so I have to agree that making an anti-handling argument along those lines is invalid. I don't really think of them as 'my property' in the sense that I think of my car or my home as my property, and I also believe ownership implies responsibilities as well as rights, but the fact is that we, as T keepers, own our tarantulas. And as long as sheer irresponsibility is not being practiced, I really don't see what the problem with handling is.


Adrian

 

[arcane]

Originally posted by RugbyDave
oh man, thats a good one

so, it takes "sleep deprivation" to agree with chip?

That isn't quite what I meant, more just 'disagree with the majority'.

Now, with even more sleep deprevation and drinking.. it comes to two seperate questions:

1. X is bad for the T
2. X is bad for the hobby

Now, with number 1, I think it's kind of sad, but I dont think I'd go around moralizing. I'm sure if someone here posted a pic of a T. Blondi having lunch on a mouse/rat/hampster forum, they'd flip out.

With number 2, yes, perhaps we should complain. If someone mails a T. Blondi to their gf, or passes around an OBT to a kindergarden class, it screws us all.

Disclaimer: and yes, i'm a T newbie..

 

[Craig]

As a veteran lecturer I have to comment on the sheer absurdity of the beginning of this thread.
I have done lots of lectures in which I have allowed children to handle some kind of tarantula. I do get parents’ permission (in the form of a take home note) though. I do not really see anything wrong with what the guy did. Maybe passing around a 6’ python was a little careless but that is the guy’s problem. At least the guy is educating people. When one does a talk with kids the information has to be dumbed down a little. The thing with the exu. is a little strange but I do not hear of anyone else going out to educate people in a better manner. Now the discussion about handling t’s is an interesting one. I guess it is a lot like people who like to handle venomous snakes in a careless manner (or the majority of people who keep them as pets) I can see where people who oppose tarantula handling are coming from. But tarantulas do not cause human fatalities so if someone gets bit then it is their own fault. I think the impaction on the hobby is minimal. Now venomous snakes.... that’s a different story. People please do not be offended by this. It is just my view.

 

[FelixA9]

Does anybody here really doubt a T wouldn't let you know if it didn't want to be held? Anybody here willing to pick up a pissed off Goliath? Also I think there is a bit of over reacting going on in this thread. Even though Ts are just big hairy bugs when you get right down to it, they have a wider range of "emotions" if you could call it that than simply content or terrified out of their minds. I don't pick my T up but I've touched it and it didn't care most of the time. Sometimes it will walk away like it's annoyed or just doesn't want to be bothered. Sometimes it will just sit there and doesn't care. Sometimes it will bolt as soon as I touch the lid. The only time I've ever seen it approach being annoyed is when I tried to feed it a little piece of meat once. It got pissed at me dangling it in it's face. Obviously I can't speak for others but if a T doesn't mind be handled I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Aviculariinae]

I will bow out now,as i believe all points have being made,
This debate will just have to agree to disagree


Code monkey no hard feelings as i know you are only trying to state your point

Ps, takes to all who sent me your lovely vulgar emails.

 

[Malhavoc's]

Originally posted by Sham,Tarantulas
now i know what you think of nature no regard for it,why dont you chop down trees while your at it !its a wild animal it has a right to live the way it was suppose to live! in trees or on the ground, not in somebodys hand! Peoples property, if you could keep a hippo as a pet you probably keep that and try and handle it too!
We,ll just agree to disagree on this one

Yes its a wild animal and since you see it that why why do you keep one? Its a wild animal ment to live its own life why hold it up in a lil box for your astetic pleasure? face it t's in the wild are wild t's cought and kept are pets and will be treated differently and will have to adept

 

[RugbyDave]

Originally posted by Sham,Tarantulas

Ps, takes to all who sent me your lovely vulgar emails.

welcome to the wonderful beast that is arachnopets.com

Seriously, though, it just comes with posting sometimes. Don't worry - don't take any of it personally. You're not the first person that's happened to, and you won't be the last....

Let the angry people send you mean emails, and let you delete them

peace
dave