Profitable Herps...

[cacoseraph]

for reference, Ken TBG's operation takes around 125-175 hours of labor a week to keep up (this is my rough/bad estimate and not an official position of Ken's =P ). and it most certainly is not making him rich. it is a living, but not a get rich quick type of deal. and he has an awesome reputation and has worked his buns off for the last ~5-7 years to get where he is at.

i really like the feeder suggestion. if there *is* one constant in hobbies, it is the necessity of feeding pet animals. the initial investment for bug feeders is quite low compared to most other things. i can get ~50 baby crickets from 1 mom and need like... less than a dollar to do it. crickets are not generally heavily regulated, compared to roaches. mice/rats i have no experience with but i do know of a few ppl who make their bread and butter via feeder rodents and make their cheddar via some reptiles and inverts.

think of it like this... buying a pet is a luxury, feeding the pets you already have is a necessity.


heck, you might actually get rich if you could nail down some new feeder species. some new kind of goofy beetles or caterpillars you find in your backyard could actually be your path to riches =P

 

[Thistles]

Not quite. I said toadlets, not tadpoles.

Regardless of the term you used in that particular instance, we are talking about the same individual animals. Get real.

 

[Skeleton-Man]

Not only that, but the whole ball python business is so incestuous. Who buys those high end morphs but other potential breeders? Those aren't snakes that have a broad market. Your average hobbyist isn't going to drop several grand on a pet. They're almost exclusively an investment snake.

That is very true. I rarely see one of those ultra high-end morphs in a nice little set up other than a rubbermaid bin as a potential breeding project. They are still pretty awesome to look at from my computer screen though :3

 

[JOE P]

Not only that, but the whole ball python business is so incestuous. Who buys those high end morphs but other potential breeders? Those aren't snakes that have a broad market. Your average hobbyist isn't going to drop several grand on a pet. They're almost exclusively an investment snake.

dont forget that ball pythons do offer a whole range of different prices so they do have a broad market...im not into ball pythons but im not blind either...the ball python market is one of the strongest its just a reptile hobby fact

 

[Lorgakor]

How old are you? 14? Do your parents know anything about keeping and or breeding reptiles? Do they have thousands of dollars laying around to put out as a starter? You need to buy not only breeding stock, and adult animals that are ready to breed cost ALOT more than babies, but you need to buy caging, heating, temperature control, substrate, food. Some of these things are an ongoing expense, if they are short $100 a month already, where is the money for all the feeding and exta electricity going to come from? Who is going to look after all of these animals on a daily basis? It takes at least a couple of years to start seeing any profit in breeding animals, are your parents prepared for extra expense with no return until then? What happens when your breeder snake gets an RI, and then two and three more get it. We're talking hundreds of dollars in vet bills, are they prepared for that?

If they are looking for a money making business, this isn't it. 90% of people who decide they are going to breed animals just for the money, fade away very quickly. Breed for the love first, for business second.

 

[lizardminion]

How old are you? 14? Do your parents know anything about keeping and or breeding reptiles? Do they have thousands of dollars laying around to put out as a starter? You need to buy not only breeding stock, and adult animals that are ready to breed cost ALOT more than babies, but you need to buy caging, heating, temperature control, substrate, food. Some of these things are an ongoing expense, if they are short $100 a month already, where is the money for all the feeding and exta electricity going to come from? Who is going to look after all of these animals on a daily basis? It takes at least a couple of years to start seeing any profit in breeding animals, are your parents prepared for extra expense with no return until then? What happens when your breeder snake gets an RI, and then two and three more get it. We're talking hundreds of dollars in vet bills, are they prepared for that?

If they are looking for a money making business, this isn't it. 90% of people who decide they are going to breed animals just for the money, fade away very quickly. Breed for the love first, for business second.

Not trying to sound mean, but it'd help if you read some later post.
I've decided I should breed feeders instead.

My parents haven't mentioned any more of it. I believe they gave up on the thought.
However, I haven't given up and I really do seek to start a (small) breeding biz.

 

[jayefbe]

Not trying to sound mean, but it'd help if you read some later post.
I've decided I should breed feeders instead.

My parents haven't mentioned any more of it. I believe they gave up on the thought.
However, I haven't given up and I really do seek to start a (small) breeding biz.

Aren't you moving to the Caribbean too? If you really did start a breeding business, you're not going to be able to take it with you. Regardless, breeding reptiles or breeding feeders, you're going to be looking at a full-time job, a considerable investment of cash, space and time and quite a while before any profits start showing up. I agree that feeders have a higher likelihood of turning a profit, but it's not a "get rich quick" scheme. Currently, I don't see how you're going to have the necessary investment and time in order to develop a breeding business on any significant level.

 

[Thistles]

dont forget that ball pythons do offer a whole range of different prices so they do have a broad market...im not into ball pythons but im not blind either...the ball python market is one of the strongest its just a reptile hobby fact

Yes, the normal balls are often sold to beginners or casual hobbyists, but most beginners shop at pet stores. The breeders sell them wholesale to these stores, or else the stores get wild caught or captive hatched snakes. Most breeders focus on fancy morphs, and I have never seen anything but a normal in a pet store. The market for balls in general is broad, and it is a big business. I am not denying either of those. What I am saying is that the market for higher end ball morphs is more limited as far as potential customers, not potential money. The people paying big bucks for snakes are ones who see them as an investment and not just your average hobbyist who wants a cool display snake. That means your customers will be other ball breeders, and there are already big, established breeders making it hard for newbie breeders to get a toe in the door at more than just the hobby level. Why buy from the little guy when there's someone with 20 yrs of experience (and reviews!) who works with 20 different morphs and has thousands of snakes?

 

[lizardminion]

Aren't you moving to the Caribbean too? If you really did start a breeding business, you're not going to be able to take it with you. Regardless, breeding reptiles or breeding feeders, you're going to be looking at a full-time job, a considerable investment of cash, space and time and quite a while before any profits start showing up. I agree that feeders have a higher likelihood of turning a profit, but it's not a "get rich quick" scheme. Currently, I don't see how you're going to have the necessary investment and time in order to develop a breeding business on any significant level.

I'm starting to smell a smart alec... I'm not moving, (any time soon) it was stupid inquiry made by my parents. Only if the gov't here starts to eff everything up will we leave out of the country.
When I post, I expect the post to stay on topic[/] and be relevant to the topic. Not bring something from elsewhere into it.
As far as feeders, I know exactly how and to care for and breed mice, as well as popular feeder insects. When it comes to rodents and insects, I carry experience.

 

[JOE P]

Yes, the normal balls are often sold to beginners or casual hobbyists, but most beginners shop at pet stores. The breeders sell them wholesale to these stores, or else the stores get wild caught or captive hatched snakes. Most breeders focus on fancy morphs, and I have never seen anything but a normal in a pet store. The market for balls in general is broad, and it is a big business. I am not denying either of those. What I am saying is that the market for higher end ball morphs is more limited as far as potential customers, not potential money. The people paying big bucks for snakes are ones who see them as an investment and not just your average hobbyist who wants a cool display snake. That means your customers will be other ball breeders, and there are already big, established breeders making it hard for newbie breeders to get a toe in the door at more than just the hobby level. Why buy from the little guy when there's someone with 20 yrs of experience (and reviews!) who works with 20 different morphs and has thousands of snakes?

those people on top have the hardest job of them all and thats staying on top. Theres always somebody looking to take your business and customers like options...Your treating my posts as if im saying making money breeding ball pythons (or anything)would be easy, i didnt say that...but i think ball pythons is the best answer for the kids question

 

[Thistles]

those people on top have the hardest job of them all and thats staying on top. Theres always somebody looking to take your business and customers like options...Your treating my posts as if im saying making money breeding ball pythons (or anything)would be easy, i didnt say that...but i think ball pythons is the best answer for the kids question

Nah, I'm not disagreeing with you. I only posted about balls twice. All I was saying is the ball python business, while it can be profitable, is just selling breeder quality snakes to other breeders.

 

[Hayden]

I'm starting to smell a smart alec... I'm not moving, (any time soon) it was stupid inquiry made by my parents. Only if the gov't here starts to eff everything up will we leave out of the country.
When I post, I expect the post to stay on topic[/] and be relevant to the topic. Not bring something from elsewhere into it.
As far as feeders, I know exactly how and to care for and breed mice, as well as popular feeder insects. When it comes to rodents and insects, I carry experience.

You did mention that you were planning on moving out of the country, and the members here are trying to offer you good advice relevant to your situation. What will you do if/when you leave the country? How much notice will you have? How will you get rid of your current stock and restart in a new location?

 

[lizardminion]

You did mention that you were planning on moving out of the country, and the members here are trying to offer you good advice relevant to your situation. What will you do if/when you leave the country? How much notice will you have? How will you get rid of your current stock and restart in a new location?

I didn't say I was, I said I might. I guess I should've mentioned if I do, be it in the distant future.

 

[Shrike]

I didn't say I was, I said I might

So what? It's still something you should take into consideration before starting your own business.

 

[dtknow]

Lower end ball pythons are honestly not a good investment snake IMO esp. for this guys position. You have to compete with WC, farmed, as well as other peoples surplus. Ball pythons are slow growing and not very prolific(which is nice when you are working with morphs, but otherwise no). Also, they cost a good bit to set up in numbers needed to produce anything.

I would also second the feeder option.

I would say breeding reptiles you can break even, but consistently making a profit without cutting corners is difficult and takes years of building a reputation.

 

[lizardminion]

So what? It's still something you should take into consideration before starting your own business.

It's not likely at this point.

 

[Hayden]

It's not likely at this point.

But if it's a possibility, even a small one, it really is something you should have a plan for, and if it's in the distant future all that means is that you'll theoretically have more stock you'll need to get rid of.

Here's a good website for people looking to start a business. I'd recommend you sit down with your parents and go over this if you're still thinking about starting a breeding operation. It talks about how to get your business licenses, registering for taxes, how to apply for loans and financial backing for start-up, etc. It's not business school, but it gives you and idea of what you need to do from the practical end.

http://www.sba.gov/content/follow-these-steps-starting-business

 

[jayefbe]

I'm starting to smell a smart alec... I'm not moving, (any time soon) it was stupid inquiry made by my parents. Only if the gov't here starts to eff everything up will we leave out of the country.
When I post, I expect the post to stay on topic[/] and be relevant to the topic. Not bring something from elsewhere into it.
As far as feeders, I know exactly how and to care for and breed mice, as well as popular feeder insects. When it comes to rodents and insects, I carry experience.

Not a smart alec, just forthright and honest. You seem to be heavy on enthusiasm and short on long-term thinking. I know what it's like to want to own every exotic pet under the sun. If you can make a profit off of it, all the better! But it's not a simple task, and very few that get into it see any profit.

It doesn't matter what you're planning to breed, be it ball pythons, leopard geckos or even feeders. You need a large outlay of cash, and a large amount of time to see any profit.
For a hypothetical rodent feeder breeding setup you need to account for the following costs:
- Initial breeding group
- Housing (build your own, or buy?)
- Food
- Watering system
- Electrical costs

Other factors:
- Time spent every week cleaning, removing pups, feeding, watering, advertising, and selling.
- Time spent in debt before you finally see a return on investment
- Where will your breeding group be housed? They definitely don't smell great. Will your parents let you keep them in a room in the house? In the garage? Will they charge you for it?
- Where will you sell them?
- What will you do when you move? Or leave for school?

Buying prime breeding stock likely isn't a significant investment (like ball pythons, where you're spending 10+ grand for a competitive group), but it will probably be more than just stopping by the pet store if you want quality genetics.

Housing can cost anywhere from a few thousand dollars to a couple hundred. I've built racks to house ball pythons before, and it cost me about $150 dollars. I'd estimate that you could build a small rack that could house a couple tubs for nursing females, and a handful of grow-out tubs for $200-$300.

Most enthusiasts try to purchase their rodents from breeders that only use high quality food. Mazuri is a common choice.

You can build a watering system, but I have heard of failures that have led to drowning of entire colonies. I'd personally purchase a system unless I was 100% positive that I could build a failproof system. Probably another $100-$200.

This is a large investment, and that's assuming your parents are cool with you taking over a room in the house or the garage. I'm not even taking into account the amount of time that will need to be spent each week just caring for the animals, and then finding a place to unload them. Many smaller rodent breeders will drive for up to a couple hours one way to visit local reptile expos in an effort to sell their wares. Most pet stores either already breed their own feeders or get them shipped in from large-scale facilities. There's a reason why not everyone breeds herps or feeders as source of income. It's incredibly difficult and time-consuming to even come close to breaking even. In the end, the simplest way of making some extra money is just getting a job. Not as exciting, but it won't leave you in significant debt. I'm not bringing up these questions to be a "smart alec". They're simply questions that must be asked before deciding to attempt something like this.

 

[bwusstig]

I think it has been made pretty clear that a lot of time & money will be required for any type of business you choose to start up. That being said...If you are asking what is profitable, I think a lot of that depends on you. Pick any animal and I think if you search hard enough you can find someone who is making a living working with that animal. However, from my experience, those who do well with any given animal are those who are truly interested in working with that species. And...I don't just mean a casual interest. I'm talking about crazy enthusiastic about their stock whether it be roaches or pythons. Usually those who are most successful focus on one group of animals and become the "expert" or "specialist" in that group. Think about it. I bet right off the top of your head you can name great sources for ball pythons, crickets & rodents, and I bet they are all different vendors. If I were you, I would keep going as a hobbyist and try out many different things. Do this for a while. Try your hand at breeding all different kinds of reptiles, rodents, roaches, crickets, whatever! See what works for you and focus on that animal. Don't try to work with too many species. Ultimately, if you don't have a serious interest in the stock you work with you will almost certainly fade away like so many others that think breeding herps can be their road to riches.

 

[JOE P]

....and then, after what everyone has covered, then the real work begins...dealing with people...having breeding success...packing snakes(or whatever)...building a rep, bla bla bla you get it.