Profitable Herps...

[lizardminion]

This is something my mom asked about, not me, so don't jump on me about it.

So it just so happens that my mom wants us to become family business of reptile and invert breeders. However, our main concern is making profit. I know that tarantulas make good money, so I don't need to ask about that. However, what reptiles/amphibians can one stick with that make some good profit, considering that we also have to pay for supplies and breeders. I know it's tough. You have to have the right supplies, take good care of the animals, (and watch for diseases) and breed the right morphs to make money. Alternatively, do all I said, just have a rare(or not so rare) and already-exciting animal like poison dart frogs. (I believe PDFrogs make some good profit because of their actual ease of care and general expense...) Also, you have to watch for their popularity and competition.
But what all herps are known for their profit making abilities?

 

[Nebulosa]

Although there are those that have made a living breeding herps, personally I've never made a dime (after you subtract the costs of feeding, supplies, etc.) from breeding herps, and I've been doing it for over 25 years. I still do it, however, because I enjoy it - the only reason to do something like that, in my opinion. Sure, I've had nice litters of various species of boas, pythons, kingsnakes, milksnakes, geckos, etc., and have sold, traded and given away the offspring, I just never really considered it as a money-making venture. For many, once it becomes "a business", the fun evaporates and it then becomes work, or a chore, which is no longer fun. My advice, do it for the love of it, not for the profitability.

 

[pitbulllady]

This is something my mom asked about, not me, so don't jump on me about it.

So it just so happens that my mom wants us to become family business of reptile and invert breeders. However, our main concern is making profit. I know that tarantulas make good money, so I don't need to ask about that. However, what reptiles/amphibians can one stick with that make some good profit, considering that we also have to pay for supplies and breeders. I know it's tough. You have to have the right supplies, take good care of the animals, (and watch for diseases) and breed the right morphs to make money. Alternatively, do all I said, just have a rare(or not so rare) and already-exciting animal like poison dart frogs. (I believe PDFrogs make some good profit because of their actual ease of care and general expense...) Also, you have to watch for their popularity and competition.
But what all herps are known for their profit making abilities?

Frogs in general, including Dart frogs, have a limited market and require LOTS of specialized care and equipment, more than any reptile. That is definitely not going to be a profitable market at all!
"Profit-making" in ANY market very often depends on trends, which means "here today, gone tomorrow". That means that any animal breeder has to be able to diversify to meet different markets. BUT, as a long-time hobby animal breeder of everything from snakes to large dogs, I can tell you unless you own a large company and can hire many knowledgeable and dedicated employees and a staff of experts, bookkeepers, etc., you are not going to really make a profit breeding and selling ANY animal, unless you cut corners, which ultimately means producing an inferior(as in SICK)product. There are too many risks involved, unforseen road blocks, and those public trends that mean you will be very fortunate to break even. If you go into breeding and selling any pet animal species with the intent of turning a consistent profit, you will have to cut back on the care the animals receive. That's why you hear of these "puppy mills" that cram dogs into tiny cages in a shed, breed females at every heat, forego vet care, etc. They make a profit...at the dogs' expense. Dog breeders who do this the right way, responsibly, lose money most of the time. Once you factor in how much you spend on the animals' care and upkeep, and compare that to what you take in from sales, you most often will wind up in the red. If you don't love what you do and let THAT be your deciding factor, you are going to run into real trouble down the line. THAT should be the way to start, not going into it with the plan to start out as a business, but letting the hobby gradually grow into a business IF it can, and not starting with animals that are hot sellers, but with animals YOU like, in the hopes that others will eventually share that like. Today's hot selling pet will be tomorrow's forgotten fad. Right now, the hot tickets are Ball Python morphs, Boa Constrictor morphs, and Beardies are still doing well, but all of those involve a large outlay of capital from the get-go, an extensive knowledge of genetics, ability to travel to shows to showcase your animals, a highly competitive nature, a thick skin to shrug off the barbs inevitably thrown at you by other breeders and a lot of hard work. You also have to be willing to fight legal issues on a local, state and national level which constantly threaten to destroy everything you've worked for. Ask any big Burmese Python breeder. THAT right there is the biggest issue with going into breeding ANY herps, commercially. How much do you and your family know about laws and regulations, and how much are you willing to spend, to give up, to fight to be able to make breeding reptiles/amphibians your career? Do you know that right now, as I type this, the US Fish and Wildlife Service is taking comments on the very distinct possibility of adding ALL frogs and toads to the Lacey Act, just like they did with Burms and AfRocks? If that happens, does your family have a Plan B, on how to make a living?

pitbulllady

 

[lizardminion]

Frogs in general, including Dart frogs, have a limited market and require LOTS of specialized care and equipment, more than any reptile. That is definitely not going to be a profitable market at all!
"Profit-making" in ANY market very often depends on trends, which means "here today, gone tomorrow". That means that any animal breeder has to be able to diversify to meet different markets. BUT, as a long-time hobby animal breeder of everything from snakes to large dogs, I can tell you unless you own a large company and can hire many knowledgeable and dedicated employees and a staff of experts, bookkeepers, etc., you are not going to really make a profit breeding and selling ANY animal, unless you cut corners, which ultimately means producing an inferior(as in SICK)product. There are too many risks involved, unforseen road blocks, and those public trends that mean you will be very fortunate to break even. If you go into breeding and selling any pet animal species with the intent of turning a consistent profit, you will have to cut back on the care the animals receive. That's why you hear of these "puppy mills" that cram dogs into tiny cages in a shed, breed females at every heat, forego vet care, etc. They make a profit...at the dogs' expense. Dog breeders who do this the right way, responsibly, lose money most of the time. Once you factor in how much you spend on the animals' care and upkeep, and compare that to what you take in from sales, you most often will wind up in the red. If you don't love what you do and let THAT be your deciding factor, you are going to run into real trouble down the line. THAT should be the way to start, not going into it with the plan to start out as a business, but letting the hobby gradually grow into a business IF it can, and not starting with animals that are hot sellers, but with animals YOU like, in the hopes that others will eventually share that like. Today's hot selling pet will be tomorrow's forgotten fad. Right now, the hot tickets are Ball Python morphs, Boa Constrictor morphs, and Beardies are still doing well, but all of those involve a large outlay of capital from the get-go, an extensive knowledge of genetics, ability to travel to shows to showcase your animals, a highly competitive nature, a thick skin to shrug off the barbs inevitably thrown at you by other breeders and a lot of hard work. You also have to be willing to fight legal issues on a local, state and national level which constantly threaten to destroy everything you've worked for. Ask any big Burmese Python breeder. THAT right there is the biggest issue with going into breeding ANY herps, commercially. How much do you and your family know about laws and regulations, and how much are you willing to spend, to give up, to fight to be able to make breeding reptiles/amphibians your career? Do you know that right now, as I type this, the US Fish and Wildlife Service is taking comments on the very distinct possibility of adding ALL frogs and toads to the Lacey Act, just like they did with Burms and AfRocks? If that happens, does your family have a Plan B, on how to make a living?

pitbulllady

And that's somewhere along the lines of what I was thinking. It's hard making a profit off of these animals. People who do this do it for the love of the animal. That's why I want to do it. But my parents need/want some extra money so this came to mind, especially considering that people DO actually make profit somewhere, like BHB Reptiles or Ken The Bug Guy.

 

[Arianji]

You want something that breeds? Try chinese painted quails, I realize they are not any form or shape a herpatile but these little birds are prolific. I started off with just one pair, my happy male and hen whom I love. I now have 14 of their offspring currently, I already gave away 7 too. In the 6 and a half months I have had these birds they have produced 21 babies. That's all from one pair. They have a ridiculously large clutch size of usually 8 to 9 eggs that incubate and hatch in 18 days and the chicks become mature in 2 months. The real question for you is who wants 4 to 5 inch long (as adults) ridiculously cute quails. Cause if you get a pair, be prepared because they will reproduce, and if you don't own an outdoor aviary, you will have no place for all the generations you own.

 

[pitbulllady]

You want something that breeds? Try chinese painted quails, I realize they are not any form or shape a herpatile but these little birds are prolific. I started off with just one pair, my happy male and hen whom I love. I now have 14 of their offspring currently, I already gave away 7 too. In the 6 and a half months I have had these birds they have produced 21 babies. That's all from one pair. They have a ridiculously large clutch size of usually 8 to 9 eggs that incubate and hatch in 18 days and the chicks become mature in 2 months. The real question for you is who wants 4 to 5 inch long (as adults) ridiculously cute quails. Cause if you get a pair, be prepared because they will reproduce, and if you don't own an outdoor aviary, you will have no place for all the generations you own.

OR, if you REALLY want something that breeds, AND sells very well, and will probably continue to do so, try raising feeder rodents. The few people I know who do so do very well, money-wise, and can't breed the things fast enough to keep up with supply. There is always a demand, regardless of the economy. It's a LOT of work, but raising any animal commercially always is, whether it's rats, frogs or cattle.

And Lizardminion, if your parents NEED extra money, where are they going to get the captital to start a reptile/herp breeding business in the first place? I know it's an old saying, but it's very, very true: you must HAVE money to MAKE money. Unless you already have extra cash available that isn't already earmarked for bills, etc., you won't be able to get started in any business, bottom line. NO business endeavor is going to start turning a profit right away, and many never will. At the very least, it will take a few years to just to recoup your initial investment, so if there is already a need for money, a shortage of money(join the club), where is the extra money going to come from to get started, and how are you going to pay bills while waiting for the business to take off? What if it fails, as many actually do? People make the mistake of looking at a long-term, well-established business like the two you mentioned and fail to take into consideration how long those folks have been at it, how long it took before their HOBBIES turned into a business, the level of knowledge and expertise they had to have before they could get started, the set-backs they have had to endure over the years, OR fail to consider that for every ONE successful business in this field, there are probably a hundred or more that fail, for various reasons. Perhaps it would be a good idea to talk to one of those guys, like Ken, to find out how long it took and WHAT it took to get to where he is now, as well as what's involved, money-wise and work-wise. Those are better questions to ask than "what herps are profitable". And, the BEST advice I can give you is to LISTEN TO AND HEED THE ADVICE of people who've been around and dealt with these animals for decades!! It is pointless for you to ask anyone's opinion or ask for advice if you're going to ignore it. It's not about which types of animals are profitable, so much as it is the amount of time, work, mess, education(yours and your clients') and money, money, money that you can put into it.

pitbulllady

 

[lizardminion]

OR, if you REALLY want something that breeds, AND sells very well, and will probably continue to do so, try raising feeder rodents. The few people I know who do so do very well, money-wise, and can't breed the things fast enough to keep up with supply. There is always a demand, regardless of the economy. It's a LOT of work, but raising any animal commercially always is, whether it's rats, frogs or cattle.

And Lizardminion, if your parents NEED extra money, where are they going to get the captital to start a reptile/herp breeding business in the first place? I know it's an old saying, but it's very, very true: you must HAVE money to MAKE money. Unless you already have extra cash available that isn't already earmarked for bills, etc., you won't be able to get started in any business, bottom line. NO business endeavor is going to start turning a profit right away, and many never will. At the very least, it will take a few years to just to recoup your initial investment, so if there is already a need for money, a shortage of money(join the club), where is the extra money going to come from to get started, and how are you going to pay bills while waiting for the business to take off? What if it fails, as many actually do? People make the mistake of looking at a long-term, well-established business like the two you mentioned and fail to take into consideration how long those folks have been at it, how long it took before their HOBBIES turned into a business, the level of knowledge and expertise they had to have before they could get started, the set-backs they have had to endure over the years, OR fail to consider that for every ONE successful business in this field, there are probably a hundred or more that fail, for various reasons. Perhaps it would be a good idea to talk to one of those guys, like Ken, to find out how long it took and WHAT it took to get to where he is now, as well as what's involved, money-wise and work-wise. Those are better questions to ask than "what herps are profitable". And, the BEST advice I can give you is to LISTEN TO AND HEED THE ADVICE of people who've been around and dealt with these animals for decades!! It is pointless for you to ask anyone's opinion or ask for advice if you're going to ignore it. It's not about which types of animals are profitable, so much as it is the amount of time, work, mess, education(yours and your clients') and money, money, money that you can put into it.

pitbulllady

I see where you're getting at. They do have extra money to buy stuff, they just need some extra pocket change for future needs, such as taxes. (Since some bank went around lying so we're being taxed some extra hundred dollars a month)
I also like your first idea. Maybe instead of the actual hobby animals, I can get them to breed feeders such as mice, crickets, and roaches. (Eventually, rabbits)
I see how that's better than breeding the main animals for business. What is a hobby, pretty much stays a hobby. The trend changes and breeding the hobby animals isn't a good way to go about making a business. People do it much for the love of the animal. It isn't something that should ever be lead to being corporately corrupt. It should remain a natural, enjoyable hobby. Where business arises is the supplies and other things necessary for the hobby. Like healthy, plumb feeders for the carnivorous herps and inverts.
Thanks for your advice, pitbulllady!

 

[Thistles]

Is this the same mother you are trying to talk into a cornsnake and a proper tank for your tadpoles?

 

[Camden]

Is this the same mother you are trying to talk into a cornsnake and a proper tank for your tadpoles?

a

Thats what I was thinking.. I don't see how she's okay with breeding them when she won't get him one, plus lizardminion you seem to be a little confused as to what you want. I'd just get a pet and not worry about breeding right now.

 

[Hayden]

Also, as someone who has intimate knowledge of how a large scale breeding operation runs, do you have the faintest idea how a place like BHB operates?

BHB doesn't run out of a basement. It runs out of a warehouse. They don't have one snake, or two snakes, or a hundred snakes. They have literally thousands and thousands and thousands of snakes worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, with a full staff of employees working full time to keep it running. To really breed on a large scale and make some money, you have to have a ton of capital to sink into your business. It isn't something you can just "start." Same goes for feeder breeding. You have to be able to provide humane housing, food, bedding, etc. for those animals as well.

There is no magic money making animal. If there was, everyone would breed it and we'd all be rich. I'd recommend finding a good beginner pet and see if you can handle the one pet before you begin accumulating more.

 

[JOE P]

This is something my mom asked about, not me, so don't jump on me about it.

So it just so happens that my mom wants us to become family business of reptile and invert breeders. However, our main concern is making profit. I know that tarantulas make good money, so I don't need to ask about that. However, what reptiles/amphibians can one stick with that make some good profit, considering that we also have to pay for supplies and breeders. I know it's tough. You have to have the right supplies, take good care of the animals, (and watch for diseases) and breed the right morphs to make money. Alternatively, do all I said, just have a rare(or not so rare) and already-exciting animal like poison dart frogs. (I believe PDFrogs make some good profit because of their actual ease of care and general expense...) Also, you have to watch for their popularity and competition.
But what all herps are known for their profit making abilities?

ball pythons

 

[Hayden]

ball pythons

...are only profitable if you have the thousands and thousands of dollars it takes to get the profitable morphs.

Please scroll through these pages and look at the prices of the higher end morphs. How much money do you think it will take to build up a breeding group?
http://bhb-reptiles.myshopify.com/collections/ball-pythons?page=1

 

[Thistles]

...are only profitable if you have the thousands and thousands of dollars it takes to get the profitable morphs.

Please scroll through these pages and look at the prices of the higher end morphs. How much money do you think it will take to build up a breeding group?
http://bhb-reptiles.myshopify.com/collections/ball-pythons?page=1

Not only that, but the whole ball python business is so incestuous. Who buys those high end morphs but other potential breeders? Those aren't snakes that have a broad market. Your average hobbyist isn't going to drop several grand on a pet. They're almost exclusively an investment snake.

 

[Hayden]

Not only that, but the whole ball python business is so incestuous. Who buys those high end morphs but other potential breeders? Those aren't snakes that have a broad market. Your average hobbyist isn't going to drop several grand on a pet. They're almost exclusively an investment snake.

Not only that, but the market is pretty well cornered by the big places. Why buy something out of a startup when you could go to the source?

 

[RS4guy]

Westernhogs, ones with cool/rare color morphs will always be very profitable. Rare retics morphs too, along with most hot snakes. Chams always fetch a pretty penny, esp. if you invest in a Parsons pair or rare Panther locale, but tend to be alot more care than most herps. Amphibians don't have the market.

---------- Post added 04-16-2012 at 10:07 AM ----------

...are only profitable if you have the thousands and thousands of dollars it takes to get the profitable morphs.

Please scroll through these pages and look at the prices of the higher end morphs. How much money do you think it will take to build up a breeding group?
http://bhb-reptiles.myshopify.com/collections/ball-pythons?page=1

If your starting up a breeding business, an inital investment would be needed anyways, and rare snake morphs tend to fetch good money. I find that a moot point, unless this "business" is more of a hobby or something.

 

[JOE P]

...are only profitable if you have the thousands and thousands of dollars it takes to get the profitable morphs.

Please scroll through these pages and look at the prices of the higher end morphs. How much money do you think it will take to build up a breeding group?
http://bhb-reptiles.myshopify.com/collections/ball-pythons?page=1

I know how much balls go for,it always takes money to make money...the people who are smarter at it will succeed...just like everything else in life

---------- Post added 04-16-2012 at 10:08 AM ----------

Not only that, but the whole ball python business is so incestuous. Who buys those high end morphs but other potential breeders? Those aren't snakes that have a broad market. Your average hobbyist isn't going to drop several grand on a pet. They're almost exclusively an investment snake.

The ball pythons have the most broad market and are still the most popular reptile in the hobby and it isnt gonna change anytime soon so like you say they are an investment snake...

 

[lizardminion]

Is this the same mother you are trying to talk into a cornsnake and a proper tank for your tadpoles?

I never mentioned the latter, and the former wasn't hardly mentioned. She knows I kinda want a snake, but I don't really mention it much.
Somebody else wanted me to get a fish tank. I don't need, or want one.

 

[Thistles]

Some of the tadpole have officially grown into toadlets, and have even managed to climb out of the container! (which lead me to find two on the floor and forcing me to revive them- both were revived successfully, much to my relief) They are busy absorbing their tails, and I should have them in a new (temporary) critter container until I can get around to getting an actual tank. I'm predicting they'll fully absorb their tails within two days, so they'll need fruit flies or pinhead crix. Let's see how far I can convince my mom to buy them some stuff...

I'm beginning to blame my poor husbandry tactic, although I still lack a proper container to place them in. Once again, I'll see into that today. I do have peat moss though, although it's still in package, just waiting to be settled down in a 10 gal... I'm hoping to go to the store today and buy some fruit flies and a vivarium.

Well, 2 just died, and I saved 3 more from dying by dunking them in water. Added peat moss to the jar. I'll nag the Hell out of my parents to get me some proper equipment to care for them to avoid situations like this in the future.
Really upset over the loss...

All taken from your tadpole thread here.

Your interest is commendable, but please don't take responsibility for living things unless you can provide for them. As a minor, your parents have to be on board with this as well.

 

[lizardminion]

All taken from your tadpole thread here.

Your interest is commendable, but please don't take responsibility for living things unless you can provide for them. As a minor, your parents have to be on board with this as well.

Not quite. I said toadlets, not tadpoles.
They're actually doing quite fine. Bought a fruit fly culture the other day. I'm saving up some $$$ from doing yard-work so I can buy a 10 gal for nine, 1 cm long toads. I already have some peat moss and a water dish. And I have some tadpoles who are growing fat and fast. I just made some noobie errors.

 

[Hayden]

9 toads are going to need a huge tank as adults.