Preys, handling : why such a debate?

Merfolk

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I am sorry if I sound rude or anything, but sometimes, I really feel that some people overeact to things that are obvious to me.

This doesn't only regard people on this board or inverts keepers in general.

Just an unrelated event to start : a baby penguin is missing, cannot be fed by humans...people worry a lot, money is spent to save that little cute penguin...while in the wild, they die by dozens and if the specie was endangered, what is spent to save it is a tiny fraction of what has been spent to save that individual bird. Seems illogic to me.


Back to T's : I am somehow irritated to read and hear people saying that it's wrong to feed them vertebrates, handle them, take a look at it beyond its burrow entrance..finaly feeling almost obliged to respect it as I would respect a human person.

1) What's the point of people pressuring others to feed it dead preys (unless the animal is impaired) ? The main reason I acquired a predator is because I want to witness predation. T display the best of their strenght, agility etc when confonted to a prey that is not that easy to catch. An easy prey is a boring sight, and since I own the animal, loosing it to a prey is my responsability. Perhaps I am the reincarnation of a roman Gladiator lover (almost to the point of building a small Coliseum for my critter to fight in) and that doesn't stop an owner to vary it's food, and go progressively starting with smaller prey to make sure his pet will remain safe . I doesn't want the mouse to suffer, I want my T to fight. Plain and simple. I am from a hunter family, and constantly have to remind people that a moose dying from a bullet suffers very little compared to one that ends shreded alive by wolves! To me, hunting is a legit pleasure, even if it's by procuration throug watching my T, and I have bigger concern than the life of an individual. We should rant about the loss of habitat, or people who inflict prolonged pain to an animal ( did anyone see these pictures of bears in China tied in cage for weeks with tubes stuck in their liver, being milked for bile? THAT is cruel!!!)

2) In the wild, T's are constantly bothered by other animals, rain, winds, and no one there achieve the level of quietness of the domestic ones. Ours are the most pampered in the world! So I feel a bit akward to be told to 'leave it alone' and just glance at it when it willfuly stand in the open. If wanted only to look at a still T, I'd get a picture on a frame. If wanted to get an animal to be cute and non violent, I'd get a Chinchilla or else. My cat doesn't even qualify as non violent!!!

Needless to say that I don't advocate silly acts (like handling high above a concrete floor, or feeding preys that obviously could defeat it) but the politicaly correct enveloppe has been pushed a bit too far for me! If the T doesn't need my contact , it doesn't need to be caged somewhere in a temperate country either.


*angry mode off*
 

Mattyb

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I read the entire post (usually i'm not in the mood to read long posts) Some things i agreed with (liking to watch a predator hunt for its food) and other things I had no idea what you were trying to say. What point are you trying to get across?


-Matty:)
 

Merfolk

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Weel, English is a second language to me...


How I can explain..some people are too... sensitive??? You got my point for the hunting stuff , so I explain the rest. Some people urged me to never touch my T, feed it only easy small prey, and not to try looking at it unless she willfuly show up. Compared to the hardship these animals encounter in the wild, a mouse a month and some handling is a walk in the park. Some people pointed to these activities as being seemingly disrespectful to the animal, but saw no wrong in keeping it captive.
 

Mattyb

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Merfolk said:
Weel, English is a second language to me...


How I can explain..some people are too... sensitive??? You got my point for the hunting stuff , so I explain the rest. Some people urged me to never touch my T, feed it only easy small prey, and not to try looking at it unless she willfuly show up. Compared to the hardship these animals encounter in the wild, a mouse a month and some handling is a walk in the park. Some people pointed to these activities as being seemingly disrespectful to the animal, but saw no wrong in keeping it captive.

Ok, I get what your saying. I agree with you, I handle my Ts. Some people don't like it, and thats fine with me. Everyone has their own opionion, and its hard to change peoples minds, so my advice to you is to deal with it like everyone does :)

-Matty
 

TheDarkFinder

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I will say this.
1.) the pengiun thing. Do you know how much a pengiun cost; the food, the maintainance, the vet bills. Zoos have to hand over a hard cash, then the little dude is just stolen. Let me change this around. YOU have a P. mettalica and YOU have cared for it, loved it. AND I steal it from you because it is cool. You would "worry alot" if you found it later with only three legs. You would spend a couple of bucks to get the care for it so it would not bleed to death. OR does your "there is more still avaible in the wild and they die off anyway, still apply?" You could get another one, right? I mean now it is your $250.00+.

2.) The hunting of animal is very important for capivity animals. Without the fight for food they get bored. This is very true. BUT if I have a 1/8 sling, and I do not want to lose it to the prey I have to prekill it. No more no less. In the wild may taranulas die to prey injuries. This will not happen to my slings. The other side is that all the adults that can handle them get fed live. Any sling that can handle them get fed live. But if the fangs are too small and the prey is too big. Then it dies. Anyone that keeps snakes will tell you the benifiets of prekill compared to live prey. a 6 meter long snake getting fed a prekilled chicken may seem a like stupid to you, but most 6 meter snakes get fed a prekillled chicken.

3.) Personal experince is why I do not handle. Lost a Avic to a simple fail. It went from the vial, to my hand to the bed. At most a 50 cm drop total, about 15 cm to my hand and a 35 cm to the covers on my bed. The sling was about 6 cm in size. The little girl was found dead about a hour later. She was fine before the accident and dead after.

You will lose one to a fall and then we will see where you stand.
thedarkfinder
 

Mattyb

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TheDarkFinder said:
You will lose one to a fall and then we will see where you stand.
thedarkfinder


Not if you handle them properly.


-Matty
 

moricollins

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Mattyb said:
Not if you handle them properly.


-Matty

Any time you free-handle you take a big chance on the tarantula getting away, getting hurt, or both.
 

Mattyb

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moricollins said:
Any time you free-handle you take a big chance on the tarantula getting away, getting hurt, or both.
Yes i know:)
but there are some good ways to handle them. I only handle mine once in a blue moon.


-Matty
 
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Crunchie

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Without the fight for food they get bored. This is very true.
I'd love to see any evidence to back this statement up.

Though I agree with the handling front and don't see a problem as long as it's done properly. If it's done properly there is minimum risk I think, someone mentioned the tarantulas making a dart from the cage. I've had that happen a few times in fact the most recent involved an adult female B.vagans shooting out her tank, up my arm around my neck and up the back of my head. I doubt very much if I'd have been as confident about getting her off safely if I hadn't handled her before.
 
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fscorpion

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Merfolk said:
Just an unrelated event to start : a baby penguin is missing, cannot be fed by humans...people worry a lot, money is spent to save that little cute penguin...while in the wild, they die by dozens and if the specie was endangered, what is spent to save it is a tiny fraction of what has been spent to save that individual bird. Seems illogic to me.
Well, some people just care about penguins, if you don't care about them that doesn't give you the right to say that they should not spend their money to care for them. I could also say why do people spend time and money to cure other people or children somewhere, while in Africa thousands of people die in one day, or why do we save lives when there are so many people on Earth???

Merfolk said:
Back to T's : I am somehow irritated to read and hear people saying that it's wrong to feed them vertebrates, handle them, take a look at it beyond its burrow entrance..finaly feeling almost obliged to respect it as I would respect a human person.
Why would you be onligated to respect a human person???

Merfolk said:
1) What's the point of people pressuring others to feed it dead preys (unless the animal is impaired) ? The main reason I acquired a predator is because I want to witness predation. T display the best of their strenght, agility etc when confonted to a prey that is not that easy to catch. An easy prey is a boring sight, and since I own the animal, loosing it to a prey is my responsability. Perhaps I am the reincarnation of a roman Gladiator lover (almost to the point of building a small Coliseum for my critter to fight in) and that doesn't stop an owner to vary it's food, and go progressively starting with smaller prey to make sure his pet will remain safe . I doesn't want the mouse to suffer, I want my T to fight. Plain and simple. I am from a hunter family, and constantly have to remind people that a moose dying from a bullet suffers very little compared to one that ends shreded alive by wolves! To me, hunting is a legit pleasure, even if it's by procuration throug watching my T, and I have bigger concern than the life of an individual. We should rant about the loss of habitat, or people who inflict prolonged pain to an animal ( did anyone see these pictures of bears in China tied in cage for weeks with tubes stuck in their liver, being milked for bile? THAT is cruel!!!).
Why do you need to hunt a moose? I can uderstand that wolves need to eat, but do you really need to kill that animal? You think that if you manage to kill it in a less painful way that means something to the dead moose??? I don't think you are the reincarnation of a gladiator, I think you are the reicarnation of some of the people who just sit and watch the carnage in the arena and enjoy. If you were a gladiator you would go to hunt a moose bare handed or with a knife...I would love to see a hunter doing that...
I agree with the statement that torturing animals is cruel...



Merfolk said:
2) In the wild, T's are constantly bothered by other animals, rain, winds, and no one there achieve the level of quietness of the domestic ones. Ours are the most pampered in the world! So I feel a bit akward to be told to 'leave it alone' and just glance at it when it willfuly stand in the open. If wanted only to look at a still T, I'd get a picture on a frame. If wanted to get an animal to be cute and non violent, I'd get a Chinchilla or else. My cat doesn't even qualify as non violent!!!
I think people just love their tarantulas and do not want to see them suffer or to see them dead. Its like you had a dog and you forced him to fight with other dogs everyday...people just love their pets, and that is the reason why most of the people keep pets-to see them thrive and live a happy life. Some other people just keep animals to see them suffer and fight and something like that because they think that the only purpose of a dog is to fight and of a taratula is to catch its prey...

Merfolk said:
Needless to say that I don't advocate silly acts (like handling high above a concrete floor, or feeding preys that obviously could defeat it) but the politicaly correct enveloppe has been pushed a bit too far for me! If the T doesn't need my contact , it doesn't need to be caged somewhere in a temperate country either.
I also didn't understand what was the point of this post...I couldn't find any good argument for you statemnts and I don't know if you posted just to let people know your opinion or to try to convince someone in something???
 

Ewok

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merfolk,

were you refering to the baby jackass penquin that was stolen from the UK?
 

Ewok

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How do I quote just part of a post? I tries highlighting the part I wanted but couldn't get it to work.
 

fyrburn

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in response to the first post:

I agree it's a little dull when you buy what's reputed as a ferocious venomous murderous man-eating monster, then sitting there watching it slowly climb on top of a small cricket which disappears.
but at the same time, I wouldn't put in anything that's a challenge and threat to the creature. This isn't because I'd feel sorry for it, but basically I paid for a tarantula, I want a pet tarantula.

I dont handle my Ts for 2 reasons.
1 - The small one moves faster than I can grab it
2 - The big one is a vicious sod that attacks anything that gets close enough without provokation. (It's a Rosea!)

As much as I agree with you people can be a little over-sensitive about feeding it vertibrate prey, I don't. Purely because it's illegal in the UK and I don't want to take any chances of getting fined or even jailed over such amusement.

The whole "respect is as much as a person" thing is really just down to what some see as common sense. It IS still just a bug, and if it would amuse you, you could just buy them £15+ at a time and squish them as they emerge from the box in the mail, but that's not too smart either :-/
I bought an insect that lives for 20+ years, so I'll do everything within my power to learn about it and use it as a self teaching tool, and of course to have it indeed live it's 20+ years and get my money's worth. When my Rosea calms it's ass down or my Smithi sling gets lazy, I'll be sure to start handling them as long as the conditions are safe for the T.
 

Cirith Ungol

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If it's pure carnage you want, why do you get yourself something as tiny as a tarantula? Why don't you get yourself a saltwater crock? Feed it a cow, now that's carnage!

It's not that I can't understand your standpoint of wanting to see some action, I too want to see that but I can still have fun with it even if the spider is totally outpowering the feeder. That seems to be the difference between us.

Thing is:
- You've payed for the spider
- You've got it shipped and you're happy it survived the trip
- You've bought it a tank
- You've prepared the tank
- You've seen to it that it gets all it needs
- You buy it crix/roaches and watch it grow and take it's prey
- You decide to buy it a mouse, the mouse bites back and the T dies.
Now how much fun is that?

Especially if you managed to get your hands on a species that is on the CITES list or just very hard to get your hands on it then the last point is a very stupid one to have occur under your care. The advice given is the most sensible for the highest number of T owners, which in general want to be carefull with their T.

What you do is obviously your own problem. If you wanna feed your T a baby comodo dragon then do that. Not my problem. Actually, I find your entire post quite unnessessary and I only responded because I feel bored right now. It's all up to you, and it's all up to other people to make up their own minds about what they think it's right.

I think it's right and worth it to be very careful so that I can enjoy my spider without concern for risk for a long long time.
 

Lorgakor

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Cirith Ungol said:
Actually, I find your entire post quite unnessessary and I only responded because I feel bored right now.
Why is this persons post any more or less nessessary than any of the posts you've made? Or any of the posts any of us make? It is an honest question and one Merfolk would obviously like to discuss.
Welcome to the boards Merfolk!
 

Merfolk

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Hey thank you!!!

I think most got the point. I am extremely careful with my sling, and am against exagerating (in both ways) and I have been told exagerated advices.

But we could find a middle ground between a dead prey and one that could probably harm your animal ; and also one between not touching it at all and really endangering it. I didn't handle my sling yet. It is too fragile now. If I ever do in the future, it will be while sitting on a rug. But I don't restrain bothering it a little bit so it is accustomed to me:eek:

This board is full of people who know their animals and had been able to witness the full extend of their capacities and interract with them, enjoying whatever they have been able to achieve ( and there is no fixed standard for it since T's like people are different) and staying trouble free for a very long period of time. Carnage is not exactly what I expect from a T (the prey only stops moving and slowly disapears, if I wanted blood I'd go for piranhas!!!)

I understand that some of my examples were a tad beside the point, and I know that some urbanites totaly despise anything remotely associated with hunting (which I felt everytime I went to the big city ;I used to live in a Native community and hunting abilities are appreciated there, but I am also repulsed when some winos parade around with a bloody deer on their hood) but I also remember that when I was a child, I could spend hours watching an agelenopsis defeating preys way bigger than itself. We all love to see David triumpf over Goliath (not Birdeater:D ) and probably this hobby is an extension of my childhood curiosity but don't worry...I am way more careful with my T!!!


So Cheers to all and have a nice holiday season!!!!

Pat
 

BakuBak

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there is no answer , everybody need to find his own way of careing for his pets , but I think that we walk away a bit from the subject ,

I understud that Merfolk is angry with people saying him that he should do this and that .... I agree with him that they shouldnt do this and being hypersensitive is sic .
it is his T , his money so until hi isnt cruel let hem do wothever he like with it - it is his choice ;] ;]
 

Cirith Ungol

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Lorgakor said:
Why is this persons post any more or less nessessary than any of the posts you've made? Or any of the posts any of us make? It is an honest question and one Merfolk would obviously like to discuss.
Welcome to the boards Merfolk!
hehe... I guess you'r right there. I take that back (if I'm allowed to)
 
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