power feeding

NixHexDude

Arachnoknight
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I don't see the drawback on shortening the lifespan. The way I see it, if you only powerfeed during the sling period, all that will be shortened is that stage. I don't know about you guys, but the sling stage is a bit boring for me to observe, and I'd rather move them along to juvie.
 

ShadowBlade

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It's just widely known that power feeding can make a male mature faster thus die faster.... Now I want to find out if the females life is cut that short by similar practices.
Hate to tell you, but its widely known it cuts females lifespan as well. It happens with true spiders, mantids, etc as well. But if you want to just do females, thats fine.
 

Windchaser

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It's just widely known that power feeding can make a male mature faster thus die faster.... Now I want to find out if the females life is cut that short by similar practices.
And I have a high power microscope... I can get them sexed at 1 inch.
Power feeding will affect both females and males in the same way. I have no studies to back this up but I would conclude that males have a shorter life span in general. That is, they have fewer total instars than females. Molting frequency is affected by diet and the total number of instars is what governs an arthropods life span regardless of sex. It may be that males have fewer total instars than females, but both males and females molt frequency can be affected by diet.

If you are truly going to do this study I think it would be valuable to include both males and females. It may help answer the questions as to how many instars each has.
 

Talkenlate04

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Hate to tell you, but its widely known it cuts females lifespan as well. It happens with true spiders, mantids, etc as well. But if you want to just do females, thats fine.
It's just widely known that power feeding can make a male mature faster thus die faster.... Now I want to find out if the females life is cut that short by similar practices.

It's just widely known that power feeding can make a male mature faster thus die faster.... Now I want to find out if the females life is cut that short by similar practices.
And I have a high power microscope... I can get them sexed at 1 inch.
I know it is cut short I just want to find out if its as dramatic of an impact as a males.
 

Thoth

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If you are willing to to do the study P.murinus sling can be easily had and grow rapidly (I've had males go from sling to mature male in less than a year and rthats with once a week feedings)
 

ShadowBlade

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It's just widely known that power feeding can make a male mature faster thus die faster.... Now I want to find out if the females life is cut that short by similar practices.
What will you have to compare it to? Is there a chart here that says how much shorter a males lifespan is with powerfeeding? Include males, otherwise you can't say it shortens their lifespan AS MUCH as males.
 
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Talkenlate04

ArachnoGod
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The study will be two groups of female T's, maybe even of a few species..... 10 or more of each.
A control group fed once a week, and a test group fed all they can eat.

I am not interested in the males at this point. I want to know how drastic the effects of power feeding are to females.


If that is the wrong way to go about testing please let me know......
Conditions will remain the same for both groups.
 

krtrman

Arachnoknight
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if you are going to test with one sex. why not the other. i understand that YOU are not interested in the results of the males but maybe the data would be relevant to others. groups of even numbers of males and females might help to better understand the feeding/molting relationship in general.
 

bignasty

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Hi!:) learned a lot from you guys, just want to ask.. i'm feeding my 1cm g. rosea sling 1 pinhead cricket per day, sometimes it eats 2! i believe i'm powerfeeding it, and in the process, i'm shortening the overall lifespan of my T. but i heard that it's OK to powerfeed slings, although once they become juveniles, powerfeeding should be stopped. any thoughts? and just wondering, what is the advisable feeding frequency for 1-2cm slings based on your experiences?
 
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dtknow

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So it seems that it is fine to powerfeed them through the sling stage and then slow down when they get older since those are the times you want to enjoy the most(I'm guessing many want the sling stage over with as fast as possible though currently I find them quite interesting).

So, would speeding up the sling stage affect the speed in the other stages? I'm guessing no.
 

Windchaser

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Personally, I feed all of my tarantulas on basically the same schedule. I don't see a reason to power feed them while they are slings. I can understand power feeding a male in breeding attempts but otherwise don't see the benefit of it in general.
 

krtrman

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it would only speed up the arrival of later stages. but really no one knows for sure what the effects would be. tarantulas are very misunderstood critters. the effects of power feeding are only inferred from tests on other arthropods. i believe that power feeding came about as a way to rear females out of the eggsacs of rare species so that they could be bred sooner. the practice has been repeated by those not interested in breeding as a way to bypass the wait associated with slow growing species.
 

Windchaser

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it would only speed up the arrival of later stages. but really no one knows for sure what the effects would be. tarantulas are very misunderstood critters. the effects of power feeding are only inferred from tests on other arthropods. i believe that power feeding came about as a way to rear females out of the eggsacs of rare species so that they could be bred sooner. the practice has been repeated by those not interested in breeding as a way to bypass the wait associated with slow growing species.
I am not aware of any official studies published on the matter but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to confirm that power feeding does indeed increase the molting frequency of tarantulas which in turn decreases the over all life span. Just look at the examples of where people raised a Brachypelma spp. male to maturity in two or three years by power feeding when under normal circumstances it takes at least five years.

It is up to the individual to decide if they want to do it or not but it doesn't make much sense to dispute the results. You contradict yourself by saying it is only inferred and then follow up with stating people do it to bypass slow growth. Whether it is harmful in ways other than shortening the life span is unknown, but suggest that it doesn't actually shorten the life span is ridiculous.
 

AfterTheAsylum

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Ah Windchaser. It has been such a long time since I got to comment by you. I bet you miss it.

I am not going to state whether or whether not I think a Ts lifespan is shortened. I, personally, have not seen anything strange where I am. I have had only good outcomes with power feeding. I had a male blondi molt after being an ultimate for over 2 years... 2 YEARS. Is it because of power feeding? Who knows. Could it be? Maybe. Let's look at some benefits of power feeding shall we?

These are all based on my own findings.
My males are always bigger when ultimate.
My males breed better.
My males are more aggressive in mating.
My males live longer in their ultimate stages

How about an issue rather than a characteristic.
What happens if your T breaks a fang or loses fangs during a molt and can't eat? My Ts can go between molts without eating.

I really haven't seen anything bad come out of power feeding. How fast are you going to make them molt... really. Instead of a year you may cut them down to 10 months or whatever.

Here is something for you all to consider. Windchaser, you might know about this. There was a British study done on molts, etc. They said that Ts only stop molting due to something with oxygen. If they had higher oxygen levels, they would still be able to grow. You see. This would make sense in what you are saying. They can grow to a point where their bodies would need more oxygen in order to grow. So if this is true, then supplying them with higher levels of oxygen would make them grow and power feeding would actually not be what shortens their life. I hope you know what I am talking about, because if not, I am going to have to look it up tomorrow.

Great to see you man. I feel like I have been gone for 6 months... which I have. Take care.

The Sickness
 

spinnekop

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Soulsick, what you are saying is amazing :)
In fact, I was always convinced that oxygen level plays a major role in the growth of invertebrates although I never saw this British report. But I could not believe you can notice a difference in just one "spider"-generation....
In prehistoric times invertebrates could grow huge thanks to higher oxygene levels. But even today there are examples...
Just to give one example, the same species of spiders in my country Belgium also exist in Switserland. Difference is... in Switserland they are twice or tripple as big ! Why?... Well, food supply is one thing, there is much more food (insects) available in Switserland and variation in foods also provides the necessary elements for growth but... oxygene level is also higher in Switserland.
I think it's a combination of all these things.
Personally i experienced that powerfeeding araneomorph spiders will boost their growth rate and they mature a lot faster then normal and.... they die sooner also - but the latter could be because of overfeeding them at adult stage. Ofcourse, there might be a difference with Mygalomorph spiders.
On the other hand, the spiders I am powerfeeding their whole life long are generally also bigger then the rest.

Soulsick, can you give any reference of this British study?
I would like to experiment this....
 
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ShadowBlade

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My males breed better.
My males are more aggressive in mating.
Aren't these kind of the same?:)

I agree 100% about no problems with powerfeeding. And yet there are benefits. It makes them grow faster, possibly bigger, so what if lifespan is shortened a bit?

Powerfeeding shortens lifespan. I'm sure of it. I've seen it with true spiders and mantids. If it does so with them, it should also with T's. As it seems to act on the same principle effecting growth the same for all three.

How MUCH does it shorten the lifespan for T's? I don't know. But I do not believe its very much. Certainly not enough to stop powerfeeding.
 
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Thoth

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I don't know, Soulsick, if we're speaking of the same study but what I understood was oxygen levels was a limiting factor on size, because of the passive nature of their respiration. If it got too big it would not be able to obtain enough oxygen to function but if raised in high oxygen atmosphere then they would be able to grow larger. Then again we maybe talking about two different studies
 

AfterTheAsylum

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I don't know, Soulsick, if we're speaking of the same study but what I understood was oxygen levels was a limiting factor on size, because of the passive nature of their respiration. If it got too big it would not be able to obtain enough oxygen to function but if raised in high oxygen atmosphere then they would be able to grow larger. Then again we maybe talking about two different studies
Yeah man, that's the study. Like I said, I couldn't remember all the specs. I just remember reading it some time ago. It sounds correct. The idea here is that their size is limited by oxygen levels. The question I am trying to pose is if oxygen determines the amount of molts that they can go through. Or is it just that they will grow larger with each molt but still have the same amount of molts? I thought about pumping high levels of oxygen into my spider room (I have access to pure O2). What stops me from doing so is the fear that it will work. If I max out the size of say... T. blondi due to oxygen levels, and I take the pure O2 away, will it be able to sustain life?

Thank god you know what I am talking about because I didn't feel like finding it again.

Good to be back here on AB and to see you again Thoth. I'm still considering your character names for my novel by the way. Right now my character is refered to as MC (main character) or XXXXX. Rock on.

The Sickness
 

AfterTheAsylum

Arachnodemon
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Aren't these kind of the same?:)
QUOTE]

Maybe I should have expanded. They breed better basically means that they have an easier time raping the female. My males are powerful as hell, alongside of being huge. They manhandle. Them being more aggressive is kind of the same thing, but a little different. They don't give up at all. Just recently (less than a month ago) I was watching a breeding of mine and the male had his hooks in and was dragging the female as she tried fighting him off. My males are definitely stronger than my females.

The Sickness
 

becca81

Arachnoemperor
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Good to see you back Soulsick. ;)

I'm curious (like, genuine curiousity, no sarcasm), out of all your breedings, how many viable spiderlings have you produced thus far?
 
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