Poecilotheria vittata pairing

[LuiziBee]

Hey ya'll!

So this coming week I am receiving an MM P. vittata for pairing. This will be my 3rd species I've attempted to breed. After doing some research in recent weeks and talking to others (on here and otherwise), I've had some trouble trying to decide the best route to take for this due to conflicting information.

Some have done nothing special and had success. Temps around 80 degrees and just went for it. Others have told me I need a month cool down BEFORE breeding, pair in a neutral space, then heat back up, etc.

Is one way better than the other? Does it matter? Have you paired this species? How did you go about it?

The person who previously owned this girl said she has eaten 2-3 males in the past and has laughed at the mention of me attempting to pair her. I'm just wanting some more opinions before I just make him an expensive meal out of him.

Thank you for reading and your opinions.

 

[sdsnybny]

Everybody will have different success using different techniques. One of the most successful breeders of pokies was/is Michael Jacobi. Here is a link to his techniques in his blog.

http://kissmybighairyspider.blogspot.com/2015/07/38-breeding-tarantulas-1-poecilotheria.html

 

[louise f]

Everybody will have different success using different techniques

I heard a lot of times that you need to cool down the females before mating, i never do that. So yeah a lot of different opinions in breeding spiders.

 

[Storm76]

I heard a lot of times that you need to cool down the females before mating, i never do that. So yeah a lot of different opinions in breeding spiders.

Yeah, this is the stuff we hear here in Europe all the time. But obviously it works without doing that just fine for our hobbyists in the US.

 

[louise f]

Yeah, this is the stuff we hear here in Europe all the time. But obviously it works without doing that just fine for our hobbyists in the US.

I tell you friend, here in Denmark a lot of people cool down their females, and they say to me, why dont you cool yours down...
I say Why would i, it works just fine without that. I`ll stick with the US friends and make a vote for not cooling down.. Hehe

 

[Haksilence]

I think for a lot of species the "cool down" is just an archaic myth

Vittata come from Nagpur, india generally speaking.
Nagpur has an annual average temp at 80.2 Fahrenheit with the coolest month out of the year being just a hair bellow 70.

I've seen the cool down period applied to new worlds almost exclusively. But even these are purely speculation from what I've found. A big example of a species that is commonly used for the cool down method would be the g rosea. They come from a portion of Chile that's average temperature is a chilly ( no pun intended) 56 degrees. So almost all g rosea in the hobby are kept at temperatures FAR exceeding the maximum temperature of their region, a region that has somewhat of a discernible winter. Thus the cool down

 

[Haksilence]

I would keep the temperatures in your house as is, chances are it's already cooler than their natural climate and introduce the male to cohab with the female overnight. A couple days if youre daring. In my experience I haven't seen much success with neutral ground, I'm a believer in keeping the female as calm and undisturbed as possible. So long as your male doesn't run right into her and she strikes in a feeding response they should be fine.

 

[Pociemon]

With some poecs i give them a cooling period, but not that hard, just small changes that i can easyly adjust on my thermostat. Rainy season is easy for me to do, because i dont use waterbowls, i just mist extra times and more heavyly. But not overdoing it. With other poecs i just turn up the heat. I usually leave my males for 1 week at a time with the females and on to the next. For metallica i leave the male with females pretty much all the time, just switch between the females. The bonus doing it this way is that many times you can extend the males life. I have a metallica male over 1 year old now and are still going strong.

 

[LuiziBee]

Everybody will have different success using different techniques. One of the most successful breeders of pokies was/is Michael Jacobi. Here is a link to his techniques in his blog.

http://kissmybighairyspider.blogspot.com/2015/07/38-breeding-tarantulas-1-poecilotheria.html

That was very helpful. My vittata is right at the point where he starts preparing her, etc. My main issue now is I'm sitting on another sac for my Avic and I'm thinking I may just end up shark tanking the MM and winging it as to not mess with temps in my T room, as much as I'd like to go that rout. Not that my Avic sac would is anywhere near as cool as a Poeci. But it's my very first successful sac, regardless. I have a wild hoard of cats and dogs in my house and can't risk sticking the vittata anywhere else for this. But thank you so much for the link. That will most likely help me a lot in the future and give me more insight than my friends telling me vaguely how to do that.

 

[LuiziBee]

I would keep the temperatures in your house as is, chances are it's already cooler than their natural climate and introduce the male to cohab with the female overnight. A couple days if youre daring. In my experience I haven't seen much success with neutral ground, I'm a believer in keeping the female as calm and undisturbed as possible. So long as your male doesn't run right into her and she strikes in a feeding response they should be fine.

The temps in my T room are kept between 75-80. But I think I may start off shark tanking him for a few days or a week or something. The enclosure I received the female in is a MASSIVE exo terra, so I think I'm going to try to use that to my advantage and may also allow me to be as hands off as possible. Still deciding if I want to "shock" rehouse her after pairing, but she's got some huge stupid hollow statue inside her enclosure and I don't think I could get her out without her jumping on my face lol. Thank you sooo much for the input!!

 

[Poec54]

I've never shark-tanked any species. As Tom Patterson pointed out in a post here a year or two ago: if the female's interested you have to disturb them to free the male, and start all over again, once they settle down. Kind of pointless

All my spiders get a cool down period in the winter:

Summer - day 80 to low 80's, nights low to mid 70's
Winter - day mid to high 70's, nights 70ish (high 60's during a cold front)

This gives them some seasonality. They slow down a little in the winter, then start eating a lot and molting in the spring/summer with the warmer temps and longer days.

I do my pairing after dark. I introduce the Poec male into the female's cage, at the opposite end of the cage from her. He should start drumming his palps within minutes, especially once he touches her silk, and she should frantically tap her from legs in response. Both need to be courting. If only one is after 15-20 minutes take the male out and try another day. Odds are they won't pair up if only one's making an effort, and the male may become prey to an unromantic female.

Poecs have an extended courtship half hour plus (they drum/tap/chase each other thru the cage...on and on); I get bored and leave. I've never seen a Poec insertion in dozens of pairings. I leave the male in for one night and take him out the next morning. If both were courting the night before, he should still be alive, and they should have bred. If you leave a male in for an extended time, and re-pair on different days, you risk losing him. If he's killed, and she sheds (happens more often than you'd think) then you don't have a male for round two.

The vast majority of my Poec pairings have been peaceful. However I've had 3 occasions (3 different species) where the female rushed out of her retreat and instantly killed the male (ornata, vittata, and striata). They don't respond to food that fast from across the cage. That's why I hover with a deli cup in one hand and an unsharpened pencil in the other, waiting for courtship, so I can get him out quickly, or break up a fight. Once both are courting, things should be fine.

 

[Haksilence]

For clarification I naturally simulate seasonality through the year since I live in new Jersey the effortt to maintain my t room at a 80+ temperature in January would be staggering. My temperatures swing through the year much as poecs does. My comment "against" cool downs was more directed at forced abrupt cool downs where you drop the temps and leave them lower unnaturally.

 

[LuiziBee]

Oooookay then. I guess shark tanking is out. Thanks for that heads up! I have gotten fairly lucky that both the male and female molted last month, so assuming he survives, he should be around for a while.

So I guess I'll feed the female up for a few more days and give it a shot and see what happens.

*I recieved the male last night.

 

[Pociemon]

For clarification I naturally simulate seasonality through the year since I live in new Jersey the effortt to maintain my t room at a 80+ temperature in January would be staggering. My temperatures swing through the year much as poecs does. My comment "against" cool downs was more directed at forced abrupt cool downs where you drop the temps and leave them lower unnaturally.

Could you please elaborate with what you disagree with in my post here?

"With some poecs i give them a cooling period, but not that hard, just small changes that i can easyly adjust on my thermostat. Rainy season is easy for me to do, because i dont use waterbowls, i just mist extra times and more heavyly. But not overdoing it. With other poecs i just turn up the heat. I usually leave my males for 1 week at a time with the females and on to the next. For metallica i leave the male with females pretty much all the time, just switch between the females. The bonus doing it this way is that many times you can extend the males life. I have a metallica male over 1 year old now and are still going strong."

You seem to know alot of breeding and poecs as i don´t, so maybe you will get me on the right track here!

 

[Pociemon]

I think for a lot of species the "cool down" is just an archaic myth

Vittata come from Nagpur, india generally speaking.
Nagpur has an annual average temp at 80.2 Fahrenheit with the coolest month out of the year being just a hair bellow 70.

I've seen the cool down period applied to new worlds almost exclusively. But even these are purely speculation from what I've found. A big example of a species that is commonly used for the cool down method would be the g rosea. They come from a portion of Chile that's average temperature is a chilly ( no pun intended) 56 degrees. So almost all g rosea in the hobby are kept at temperatures FAR exceeding the maximum temperature of their region, a region that has somewhat of a discernible winter. Thus the cool down

Correction. Vittata comes from Sri Lanka, more specificcally the southeast area of Sri Lanka.

 

[Poec54]

Oooookay then. I guess shark tanking is out. Thanks for that heads up! I have gotten fairly lucky that both the male and female molted last month, so assuming he survives, he should be around for a while.

So I guess I'll feed the female up for a few more days and give it a shot and see what happens.

*I recieved the male last night.

I'd give the male a couple weeks to settle in after his trip. In that time feed the female a lot. The bigger her abdomen is, the less likely she is to think of him as dinner.

 

[Poec54]

The bonus doing it this way is that many times you can extend the males life. I have a metallica male over 1 year old now and are still going strong."

Leaving females in with males shortens their lifespan if anything, by being underfoot or impersonating a meal. I don't see how living with a female prolongs anything. My Poec boys get one night per female, and typically live a year, some live 2 years.

 

[Pociemon]

Leaving females in with males shortens their lifespan if anything, by being underfoot or impersonating a meal. I don't see how living with a female prolongs anything. My Poec boys get one night per female, and typically live a year, some live 2 years.

That is my experience that they do. Especcially with metallica as they cohabitate so well. Of course i dont leave a ornata male inside with the female for weeks, but by giving them regular visits makes them live longer in my opinion. I have seen males die after short time if they are not kept "motivated". As said, this is how i have experienced it, others may have other experiences, wich is cool with me.
The shortest time i give any poec male is 3 days with a female if i have not witnessed an insertion. But all depends on wich poec it is...
Of course i have payed the price sometimes by loosing a male, but that can happen at any time.

 

[Haksilence]

Could you please elaborate with what you disagree with in my post here?

"With some poecs i give them a cooling period, but not that hard, just small changes that i can easyly adjust on my thermostat. Rainy season is easy for me to do, because i dont use waterbowls, i just mist extra times and more heavyly. But not overdoing it. With other poecs i just turn up the heat. I usually leave my males for 1 week at a time with the females and on to the next. For metallica i leave the male with females pretty much all the time, just switch between the females. The bonus doing it this way is that many times you can extend the males life. I have a metallica male over 1 year old now and are still going strong."

You seem to know alot of breeding and poecs as i don´t, so maybe you will get me on the right track here!

The dislike was directed at the no water dishes.

 

[Haksilence]

Correction. Vittata comes from Sri Lanka, more specificcally the southeast area of Sri Lanka.

Vittata was originally described by pocock as being from South india, and if memory serves it was collected near the city of Nagpur. Their common name doesn't have any real bearing on their geographical demographic, although I believe they can also be found in Sri Lanka as well. So you're not wrong.
I could be mistaken and may need to reread the publication