Poecilotheria Venom Vs. True Spider Venom ( black widow, brown recluse)

[Chris LXXIX]

Yes but the effects of the venom itself would likely have greater/more danferous effects on the body, being injected so close to vital organs like the brain etc. wouldn't it? I feel that a bite in the hand and fingers would mean much less venom would reach more sensetive areas like the brain, heart, etc.
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Mine views are only speculations, i know. But i use logic. If a bite from an adult Poecilotheria ornata (or from other nasty OW'S like Stromatopelma calceatum) given to an healthy adult, in a finger, can put sometimes in hospital (check here some serious Pterinochilus murinus bite report) i assume, that, even if uncommon, rare.. what you want, a bite in a delicate area, such face, head, near the heart etc can lead to serious, serious consequences.
I can't be completely 100% sure of that. Same for those who disagree with me. There isn't valid, trusted, medically accurate, bite reports for those body parts. Not for adults nor childrens.
All we know are from those few, but important, bite reports happened to healthy adults in fingers, much less hands.
That's why, i, from my side of view, leave open a small "door" for doubts, while others stick to the "no one has ever died" mantra, which is true, however.

---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 01:04 PM ----------

Well right, it *seems as though*...that's just speculation. We have no evidence to make statements on the severity of bites on varying body parts, or even varying physiques for that matter. All we have the gauge bite severity is from what we have on the few clinical studies available and bite reports/anecdotes on how people tend to react.

I think the reason why there is so much emphasis on head/neck injuries in the medical field is because mechanical damage to the brain/heart can have catastrophic effects disproportionate to that of mechanical damage on the rest of the body. Envenomation is an entirely different arena and has more to do with the nervous system...so I don't know about it being any more venomous or deadly.

Haha sorry, it's the scientist in me - wild speculations and "probably" statements about stuff we don't know a whole lot about makes me nervous...we can only make assumptions based on the little information we do have at this point...

I do wonder if there is a difference in true spider bites...that may grant us some insight, if there is any literature out there...

Rest assured, man.. potent venom + near the brain zone = high risk of a possible fatal situation, if not, still a lot of troubles after.
It's logic to think something like this, since a bite in a finger can put an healthy man to hospital.

 

[Angel Minkov]

It doesn't matter where the venom is injected in the body, unless it's directly injected into an organ. Be it in the leg or close to the brain, it will evenly spread throughout the body via the bloodstream. It most likely will not damage the brain, but a high body temperature could. When our bodies reach 40C temperature almost all processes are slowed down or halted. If you were to get bitten in the eye, as crazy as that may sound, but still possible, you will surely lose sight with the said eye and perhaps a sever follow-through will appear.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

It doesn't matter where the venom is injected in the body, unless it's directly injected into an organ. Be it in the leg or close to the brain, it will evenly spread throughout the body via the bloodstream. It most likely will not damage the brain, but a high body temperature could. When our bodies reach 40C temperature almost all processes are slowed down or halted. If you were to get bitten in the eye, as crazy as that may sound, but still possible, you will surely lose sight with the said eye and perhaps a sever follow-through will appear.

Mines are only speculations, Angel. I know that no one never died from a bite received by an OW Theraphosidae, and we are talking now about potent ones and potent ones only, such Stromatopelma calceatum, Poecilotheria spp. etc just that... we can't be 100% damn, straight sure about what will happen if this scenarios (remote as hell, i know!) might happens:
- A children below 10 years, full wet bitten in the neck.
- Healthy adult bitten near the heart, or face..
Me, on a total, maybe wrong, personal opinion.. since would not know what could happen.. definitely i would NOT say to those (example) parents, in the hospital, something like: "Don't worry, there's a video available on YT wheres a man, healthy and adult, named Rob "Tarantulaguy" was bitten years ago in the finger by that spider, he made a video, and everything at the end went fine, just... i know, a lot of strong pain. Be ok, then, don't worry, your children risk nothing" to them. Not me.

Now... i DO own OW Theraphosidae, potent venom ones as well (not Pokies, however) and, in all honesty, if you know what you are doing, how to etc a bite, even if sh.. happens, it's rare, otherwise we will read 10 new bite reports per day, here.

Just my speculations about those potent venoms in a still, from what i know, mysterious field since there isn't (maybe it's a good thing, science is science but it's never good for the hobby to read TOO MUCH bite reports, imo) accurate, trusted, valid medical reports.

 

[Biollantefan54]

Now we just need someone to test to see if OW tarantula bites can ever be fatal! Any takers?

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Now we just need someone to test to see if OW tarantula bites can ever be fatal! Any takers?

A robber. A robber spotted into your house or private property when you can have the upper hand on him. You hit him with a baseball bat (not in a too strong, deadly way, uh, just for let him confused) then you pick one of his finger and put the finger in a (OW) enclosure, then, after he got bitten, to another OW enclosure (like in Wrestling with turnbuckles) repeat this for a good 6 - 7 time or more (for be completely 100% sure).
We would have the answer.

 

[Biollantefan54]

A robber. A robber spotted into your house or private property when you can have the upper hand on him. You hit him with a baseball bat (not in a too strong, deadly way, uh, just for let him confused) then you pick one of his finger and put the finger in a (OW) enclosure, then, after he got bitten, to another OW enclosure (like in Wrestling with turnbuckles) repeat this for a good 6 - 7 time or more (for be completely 100% sure).
We would have the answer.

But instead of just a finger, do it on the finger, leg, forehead, chest, neck, JUST to be sure

 

[Chris LXXIX]

But instead of just a finger, do it on the finger, leg, forehead, chest, neck, JUST to be sure

Really, really. In USA you can kill someone who enter, for steal your stuff, in your private property, no? With a machine gun, in some state. So that would be interesting and could help the scientific community as well.
"Repeated bites given from various spp. of OW Theraphosidae spiders in his finger lead the subject to mass extreme envenomation, shock" etc etc

 

[windscorpions1]

Really, really. In USA you can kill someone who enter, for steal your stuff, in your private property, no? With a machine gun, in some state. So that would be interesting and could help the scientific community as well.
"Repeated bites given from various spp. of OW Theraphosidae spiders in his finger lead the subject to mass extreme envenomation, shock" etc etc

I'll just chime in on this once....I wouldn't go as far to say machine guns...there's a difference between semi and fully autos. And while you can in some places in the US get class 3 fully automatic firearms it's very hard, costly, and regulated. the killing someone breaking into your house is a controversial subject but it depends on the case IMO. Just wanted to clear that up. .....although on a side note I like Chris's idea about the break in and the OW t's. Sorry for being off topic but just felt that needed a bit cleared up.

 

[Arachnomaniac19]

Well at least I know how to take care of a pesky neighbour (if I lived in the states) and help the scientific community at the same time!

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I'll just chime in on this once....I wouldn't go as far to say machine guns...there's a difference between semi and fully autos. And while you can in some places in the US get class 3 fully automatic firearms it's very hard, costly, and regulated. the killing someone breaking into your house is a controversial subject but it depends on the case IMO. Just wanted to clear that up. .....although on a side note I like Chris's idea about the break in and the OW t's. Sorry for being off topic but just felt that needed a bit cleared up.

Yeah, sorry, man. Hope no one get offended. But you know, i mean, the image of USA given to the world, talking in a general, and sometime wrong, way, no? Some movies, videogames, guns and weapons everywhere etc i really live in a nation where, if a robber enter in your home, you will have serious problems with the law if something "bad" will happen to him. "Too much self defense" and stuff. Don't know in Texas, ah ah. Texas, uh

 

[BobGrill]

Yeah, sorry, man. Hope no one get offended. But you know, i mean, the image of USA given to the world, talking in a general, and sometime wrong, way, no? Some movies, videogames, guns and weapons everywhere etc i really live in a nation where, if a robber enter in your home, you will have serious problems with the law if something "bad" will happen to him. "Too much self defense" and stuff. Don't know in Texas, ah ah. Texas, uh

Don't even start blaming films and videogames for creating violence in society. That is such a lame and outdated excuse. Films are art, which is a form of entertainment. People who think films and videogames are like real life shouldn't be allowed to watch them. Rant over.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Don't even start blaming films and videogames for creating violence in society. That is such a lame and outdated excuse. Films are art, which is a form of entertainment. People who think films and videogames are like real life shouldn't be allowed to watch them. Rant over.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

Thanks for claryfying that. Thanks to you now i know that politicians, mass media, angry parents, some religious groups etc are wrong when they blame movies, videogames, and the old fashioned heavy metal for every disgrace of this world.
I have not said that. That was not my intention. The sense of my comment was: in an "Ammu-Nation" nation, it's logic to think that, if an armed robber enters your home, you have the right to defend yourself, and kill him. Maybe i was wrong about the machine gun part, but it's a detail.
"Movies" and "Videogames" in the sense, that, them, depicted pretty well that sort of daily reality things.

 

[viper69]

Don't even start blaming films and videogames for creating violence in society. That is such a lame and outdated excuse. Films are art, which is a form of entertainment. People who think films and videogames are like real life shouldn't be allowed to watch them. Rant over.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

There is not one single cause for a violent USA. However there's plenty of studies demonstrating people who are exposed to violence even in entertainment get sensitized to it. That's how your brain works, the sensitization part, whether it's violence or porn or some other stimuli.

 

[windscorpions1]

Ok...wasn't my intention to derail the thread lol....probably a better conversation for TWH

 

[ARACHNO-SMACK48]

This thread has gone all over the place. haha

 

[awiec]

This thread has gone all over the place. haha

Well I think your question was answered...kinda

 

[ARACHNO-SMACK48]

Indeed it was....kinda. Haha

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Ok...wasn't my intention to derail the thread lol....probably a better conversation for TWH

You did nothing wrong, man. If there's someone to blame, i am. I'ts me who, sometime, go off topic due to my pleasure for talk. The fact that English is not my first, nor second (since i don't live in India, Australia, Canada, Ireland, some African/Asia English language nations etc) language, can lead to misunderstanding sometimes.
Even if, i swear, i try at my best, my English remain crap, no matter.

 

[ARACHNO-SMACK48]

You did nothing wrong, man. If there's someone to blame, i am. I'ts me who, sometime, go off topic due to my pleasure for talk. The fact that English is not my first, nor second (since i don't live in India, Australia, Canada, Ireland, some African/Asia English language nations etc) language, can lead to misunderstanding sometimes.
Even if, i swear, i try at my best, my English remain crap, no matter.

Your English is completely understandable. Don't beat yourself up.

 

[cold blood]

Your English is completely understandable. Don't beat yourself up.

What? I can't understand anything he says...just awful

Seriously though Chris, if you didn't tell, we'd have probably never gave it a thought. You do significantly better than many who's first language actually IS English.

I wish I was literate in several languages:clap: