Poecilotheria Venom Vs. True Spider Venom ( black widow, brown recluse)

[ARACHNO-SMACK48]

I just sent out 2 MM violecus. They are awesome.

 

[awiec]

Avicularia brawshawni (think I spelled that right) gets to be a decent sized arboreal I think

Aviculara braunshauseni . There are a few arguements on who is the biggest Avic but these are contenders as they can get over 6 inches. Mine personally has quite the attitude and bites, smacks and lunges at whatever is near it; this makes feeding time very easy though. It would probably use an adult enclosure as Avics do enjoy webbing everywhere and are quite pretty when adults.

Psalmopoeus are great arboreals Theraphosidae.
Psalmopoeus irminia one of the best, dark colors, unique. Psalmopoeus cambridgei is a giant, maybe one of the biggest arboreals.
As for Tapinauchenius gigas, violaceus.. don't know much except: they are super fast, cool, and.. a bit little, compared to Psalmopoeus?

I can shed a little light as I have a small T.gigas militia. These spiders are not very defensive and once established in their cages will only bolt out of the cage if you corner them or keep pestering them. I over-house mine as this gives them some extra space so they don't feel cornered and are provided with sub to burrow in and cork to sit/hide behind. They create very interesting hides that will utilize dirt and the cork to create a system that starts on the ground but then works up onto the cork. Are they fast? Very but if you give them proper caging they are very vibrant animals that will come out very often and aren't hard to deal with. I only know of a few bite reports and none of the symptoms appeared to be terrible, they really don't want to bite you.

 

[viper69]

Hello all, I realize that there is likely no definite answer to my question and that this will likely be a highly controversial topic but I thought to make a post to gather up as much info as possible. How does the venom of the poecilotheria genus stack up against that of say a black widow or a brown recluse? Pain wise? Side effects? My step sister was bitten by a black widow several years back and once described her experience as extreme pain throughout her entire body, body wide muscle spasms, and flu like symptoms. Obviously the widow takes the lead as far as venom potency goes but I am particularly interested In a comparison of the symptoms (pain, flu like symptoms, labored breathing, muscle spasms, heart palpitations). How long does the venom of each sp. take to take effect on the body? How long do the effects last? Obviously these are two different types of venoms and everyone reacts to envenomation differently so I am not expecting black and white answers so much as general information. Also I have seen heart palpitations listed as side effects in various bite reports of OW T's. Does an actual irregular heart beat ever occur as a symptom of OW bites or just palpitations? And one more unrelated question: Which poecilotheria sp. is known to have the most potent venom?

Thanks in Advance to Everyone Who Posts

There's a scientific paper that will answer many of your Poki venom questions throughout this thread. All you have to do is do some creative googling.

 

[Storm76]

I highly doubt a bite from any tarantula can create a heart problem. What Chris LXXIX was talking about was underlying heart conditions that were there all the time. This is terrible off topic, but I seem to remember that it was a guy playing for Livorno that suddenly just collapsed and died on field a couple of years back, so even though you are an fit or even a professional athlete you can never be sure if you have a condition or not. It is not very likely though...

There's a number of reports in the Arachne describing heart problems after tarantulas bites (i.e. from C. fimbriatus) meaning certain species can definately affect the heart of the bitten person.

Avicularia brawshawni (think I spelled that right) gets to be a decent sized arboreal I think

I believe you mean A. braunshauseni - they're big, some have a reported attitude, but it's still an Avic. Though a bite would probably be painful just because of the size of the T and its fangs.

Psalmopoeus are great arboreals Theraphosidae.
Psalmopoeus irminia one of the best, dark colors, unique. Psalmopoeus cambridgei is a giant, maybe one of the biggest arboreals.
As for Tapinauchenius gigas, violaceus.. don't know much except: they are super fast, cool, and.. a bit little, compared to Psalmopoeus?

P. cambridgei maxes out around 7" - big, but most asian arboreal grow bigger still.

Tappies are super fast, often super nervous T's in the 4.5-6" mark (and I'm pretty sure 6" is the exception!). I have a very beautiful, very skittish T. violaceus female that just dropped the second dud-sac within a couple years now. As for their venom, someone described it as "glowing hot nail slowly being driven into your skin". My female gets super defensive while taking care of the dudsac, going as far as leaving it laying on the ground and coming to the top threatening when I refill her waterdish. Otherwise these will usually hide immediately if disturbed. It's their speed that worries most, I believe.

 

[Pociemon]

If anyone got bit by a fullgrown poecilotheia (anyone of them) i think they are in for a world of pain and a trip to the hospital would be adviced.

Maybe there is no recorded deaths from poecs because they live pretty far from people and bites very rarely occurs! But with widows they live close by. It is very rare actually that anyone dies from a bite from a widow, and they are responsible for many more bites than any poecilotheria.

 

[BobGrill]

If anyone got bit by a fullgrown poecilotheia (anyone of them) i think they are in for a world of pain and a trip to the hospital would be adviced.

Maybe there is no recorded deaths from poecs because they live pretty far from people and bites very rarely occurs! But with widows they live close by. It is very rare actually that anyone dies from a bite from a widow, and they are responsible for many more bites than any poecilotheria.

This was the first thing that popped into my head after reading that first sentence.


Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[Angel Minkov]

Havent we had enough topics about the "you're not ready for an OW"? It gets pretty boring. Thanks to Storm for the info on C. fimbriatus venom. Had no idea it causes heart problems. Wha are they? Tachycardia, Arrhythmia, or something else, less severe?

 

[Storm76]

Havent we had enough topics about the "you're not ready for an OW"? It gets pretty boring. Thanks to Storm for the info on C. fimbriatus venom. Had no idea it causes heart problems. Wha are they? Tachycardia, Arrhythmia, or something else, less severe?

Reportedly Tachycardia from what I remember. There's also this sparse info showing that it packs a punch though: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?141217-Chilobrachys-Venom

 

[ARACHNO-SMACK48]

I agree but that was not the original purpose of this thread. I am trying to learn more about poecilotheria venom...

---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 08:29 AM ----------

Reportedly Tachycardia from what I remember. There's also this sparse info showing that it packs a punch though: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?141217-Chilobrachys-Venom

Are you referring to long term tachycardia or just while the venom is taking effect? I actually did not know this... this is concerning.

 

[awiec]

I agree but that was not the original purpose of this thread. I am trying to learn more about poecilotheria venom...

---------- Post added 06-10-2015 at 08:29 AM ----------


Are you referring to long term tachycardia or just while the venom is taking effect? I actually did not know this... this is concerning.

I feel like a dummy as I should have just went and found some articles for you, it's what I'm paid to do and I totally forgot:
http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2009/09/29/qjmed.hcp128.full- Is a free review from 2009 and talks about various OW and their bites, it also uses both scholarly and hobbyist data; I read it some time back and it was a good read.

 

[ARACHNO-SMACK48]

I feel like a dummy as I should have just went and found some articles for you, it's what I'm paid to do and I totally forgot:
http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2009/09/29/qjmed.hcp128.full- Is a free review from 2009 and talks about various OW and their bites, it also uses both scholarly and hobbyist data; I read it some time back and it was a good read.

Believe it or not I have been reading articles and bite reports... the sarcasm is absolutely unnecessary. I appreciate the article though.

 

[awiec]

Believe it or not I have been reading articles and bite reports... the sarcasm is absolutely unnecessary. I appreciate the article though.

No I'm being totally earnest, I am paid to go find articles and I should have put a few articles in my initial reply.

 

[viper69]

Believe it or not I have been reading articles and bite reports... the sarcasm is absolutely unnecessary. I appreciate the article though.

Where was he sarcastic?

 

[ARACHNO-SMACK48]

Oooooooh.... my bad.. I'm sorry... It's difficult to interperet tone through posts.

 

[awiec]

Where was he sarcastic?

I'm a chick but I don't expect everyone to memorize everyone's gender on here( I know I certainly don't)

Oooooooh.... my bad.. I'm sorry... It's difficult to interperet tone through posts.

I'm not fond of being passive aggressive, yes I have the ability to be sarcastic, but I am pretty straight forward with my replys as to try to avoid these things. Let me know if you need more stuff, I have access to a lot of journals that the general public doesn't get.

 

[El Consciente]

Honestly, much of what you'll hear about a bite from a pokie actually doing to you is a lot of speculation - there are only one or two clinical studies on the issue. What we do know, is that there is a wide range of variance in how people respond to individual bites.

I'd be skeptical of anyone saying you're doomed to writhing on your floor quasi-comatose from a bite just because you're under 6', 150lbs, whatever. Fact is, we don't know. We just know it hurts a bunch and sometimes warrants a hospital visit.

 

[ARACHNO-SMACK48]

But as someone pointed out earlier it seems as though it would be a completely different story if one was bitten on the neck or head of chest. Based on the symptoms described in bite reports, when people are getting tagged on hands and fingers mostly, I feel that it is reasonable to think that a bite on the head, neck, chest etc. would be much more dangerous and potentially deadly.

 

[awiec]

But as someone pointed out earlier it seems as though it would be a completely different story if one was bitten on the neck or head of chest. Based on the symptoms described in bite reports, when people are getting tagged on hands and fingers mostly, I feel that it is reasonable to think that a bite on the head, neck, chest etc. would be much more dangerous and potentially deadly.

A lot is at play with venom and your own physical health is one of the main variables. Being bit in the neck or eye is going to be VERY unpleasant just do to the mechanical damage by the fangs and the wound could easily get infected by other viruses/bacteria lying in wait; AIDS doesn't kill you, it's the opportunistic diseases that do.

 

[ARACHNO-SMACK48]

A lot is at play with venom and your own physical health is one of the main variables. Being bit in the neck or eye is going to be VERY unpleasant just do to the mechanical damage by the fangs and the wound could easily get infected by other viruses/bacteria lying in wait; AIDS doesn't kill you, it's the opportunistic diseases that do.

Yes but the effects of the venom itself would likely have greater/more danferous effects on the body, being injected so close to vital organs like the brain etc. wouldn't it? I feel that a bite in the hand and fingers would mean much less venom would reach more sensetive areas like the brain, heart, etc.
.

 

[El Consciente]

But as someone pointed out earlier it seems as though it would be a completely different story if one was bitten on the neck or head of chest. Based on the symptoms described in bite reports, when people are getting tagged on hands and fingers mostly, I feel that it is reasonable to think that a bite on the head, neck, chest etc. would be much more dangerous and potentially deadly.

Well right, it *seems as though*...that's just speculation. We have no evidence to make statements on the severity of bites on varying body parts, or even varying physiques for that matter. All we have the gauge bite severity is from what we have on the few clinical studies available and bite reports/anecdotes on how people tend to react.

I think the reason why there is so much emphasis on head/neck injuries in the medical field is because mechanical damage to the brain/heart can have catastrophic effects disproportionate to that of mechanical damage on the rest of the body. Envenomation is an entirely different arena and has more to do with the nervous system...so I don't know about it being any more venomous or deadly.

Haha sorry, it's the scientist in me - wild speculations and "probably" statements about stuff we don't know a whole lot about makes me nervous...we can only make assumptions based on the little information we do have at this point...

I do wonder if there is a difference in true spider bites...that may grant us some insight, if there is any literature out there...