Poecilotheria Rufilata

[YungRasputin]

am strongly considering picking up one of these as I’ve read they’re the largest arboreal and was wondering if a 12x12x18 (inches) would be suitable for an adult specimen? hard to find a solid/consistent DLS for them - have read 8+ inch DLS and also, 12+ DLS?

 

[l4nsky]

Do it, they're a very underrated pokie and they stand apart from the majority of the genus as well in terms of coloration. I would go a bit bigger then a 12" x 12" x 18" for two reasons. One is yes, they really do get that big. My 0.1 is 7.5" at a little over 3 years old and she's still putting on 0.5" a molt. A 10" DLS should be easily achievable for her in her lifetime. The second reason is they are fast. While they might not really be faster than any of the other pokies, they are considerably bigger and hence can cover more distance with the same amount of movement. You'll appreciate the extra room to work around them safely.

 

[YungRasputin]

Do it, they're a very underrated pokie and they stand apart from the majority of the genus as well in terms of coloration. I would go a bit bigger then a 12" x 12" x 18" for two reasons. One is yes, they really do get that big. My 0.1 is 7.5" at a little over 3 years old and she's still putting on 0.5" a molt. A 10" DLS should be easily achievable for her in her lifetime. The second reason is they are fast. While they might not really be faster than any of the other pokies, they are considerably bigger and hence can cover more distance with the same amount of movement. You'll appreciate the extra room to work around them safely.

the coloration + their rank as largest arboreal species is what has me hooked - i would be receiving a 1.5-2 inch DLS sling that i plan to keep in the 12x12x18 until at least next year before rehousing into maybe a 18x18x24? hypothetically let’s say mine grows at the rate yours has by this time next year what would you say they would be DLS?

edit: wondering because i wanted to know how much time i would have to both obtain the bigger enclosure and also, go all out and make it something tremendous befitting the species

 

[Tarantuland]

a 12x12x18 would be way too big for a 1.5-2" sling. It would be fine for an adult. I've had one almost a year and it's probably a little over an inch, but it's my most reclusive Poecilotheria. I would use a mainstay canister for one that size or one of the clear containers with a purple lid from the dollar store, or a 4x4x8 amac box. An 18x18x24 would be overkill for an adult I think, but you could make a really pretty enclosure out of that if you wanted to.

 

[l4nsky]

the coloration + their rank as largest arboreal species is what has me hooked - i would be receiving a 1.5-2 inch DLS sling that i plan to keep in the 12x12x18 until at least next year before rehousing into maybe a 18x18x24? hypothetically let’s say mine grows at the rate yours has by this time next year what would you say they would be DLS?

edit: wondering because i wanted to know how much time i would have to both obtain the bigger enclosure and also, go all out and make it something tremendous befitting the species

I wouldn't start that big. Pokies are amazing predators and typically thrive in slightly larger caging then is necessary, but I feel like a 2" juvie in an 12" x 12" x 18" is approaching the law of diminishing returns lol. I purchased 0.0.3 at 2" DLS in Jan 2019. All three ended up sexing out as females and I sold the slower growing two at just over 6" DLS in July 2020. My 7.5" DLS 0.1 is currently in a 5g and is in need of a rehouse. I was hoping to convert a 29g over to a vert display, but I might go a different route instead.

 

[jrh3]

12x12x18 is perfect for an adult Rufilata. For a 2 inch sling, no way.

 

[viper69]

am strongly considering picking up one of these as I’ve read they’re the largest arboreal and was wondering if a 12x12x18 (inches) would be suitable for an adult specimen? hard to find a solid/consistent DLS for them - have read 8+ inch DLS and also, 12+ DLS?

Do it!!! They are the largest by DLS but not by mass it is believed.

18” is fine

if you go wider than 12” also fine

 

[YungRasputin]

many thanks to all your replies - also, to explain, i try to reduce if not eliminate rehousing and have been experimenting with larger enclosures with slings to better replicate nature - so far the only issue is keeping them fit instead of chunky lol originally thought maybe more feeders than normal would be best but have found that not to be the case

i use crickets so a good majority of the time feeders go directly to the specimen anyway - as well as providing easy access to lots of water

^i also believe that this is greatly reducing stress and producing extremely chill specimens behavior wise - outside of a couple quirky things here and there i haven’t gotten anything that is usually befitting of a lot of stereotypically unchill species - OBT being big example

per my arboreals i have been doing this also because i think it would be neat to see how their behavior patterns change over time and how they utilize the enclosure differently from sling to adulthood

 

[Tarantuland]

many thanks to all your replies - also, to explain, i try to reduce if not eliminate rehousing and have been experimenting with larger enclosures with slings to better replicate nature - so far the only issue is keeping them fit instead of chunky lol originally thought maybe more feeders than normal would be best but have found that not to be the case

i use crickets so a good majority of the time feeders go directly to the specimen anyway - as well as providing easy access to lots of water

^i also believe that this is greatly reducing stress and producing extremely chill specimens behavior wise - outside of a couple quirky things here and there i haven’t gotten anything that is usually befitting of a lot of stereotypically unchill species - OBT being big example

per my arboreals i have been doing this also because i think it would be neat to see how their behavior patterns change over time and how they utilize the enclosure differently from sling to adulthood

Rehousing once a year or whatever isn’t gonna make a difference on how chill the spiders are. But if you do run trials with the same species but change the frequency of rehousings is be curious if your results. You’d have to do this a lot of times with several specimens per species and figure out a way to really judge the temperament. It is an interesting thought tho.

Pokies in general are pretty chill compared to most other OW in my experience. But they are very fast and have the potent venom. Rufilata is said to be one of the more high strung Poecilotheria, but mine is the most reclusive member of this genus that I have. If you’re starting with a 1.5-2” you can probably get away with only 2 rehousings after you get it, maybe even just one. You can put them in something larger, but a 12x12x18 for a sling that size would be too much. If you’re uncomfortable rehousing, I would hold off on getting this species for now. But I would use the bag method for rehousings.

I’d use a mainstay canister or something similar, let the spider get to around 4” or so and then move into the exo terra.

 

[YungRasputin]

Rehousing once a year or whatever isn’t gonna make a difference on how chill the spiders are. Pokies in general are pretty chill compared to most other OW in my experience. But they are very fast and have the potent venom. If you’re starting with a 1.5-2” you can probably get away with only 2 rehousings after you get it. You can put them in something larger, but a 12x12x18 for a sling that size would be too much. If you’re uncomfortable rehousing, I would hold off on getting this species for now. But I would use the bag method for rehousings. Again I’d recommend the mainstay canister or something similar, let the spider get to around 4” or so and then move into your exo terra.

it’s not that i am uncomfortable doing rehousing i just am finding them to be ultimately unnecessary unless we’re talking about a sling that’s below 1 inch DLS - then yes i would keep it in a sling enclosure however at present this has been my practice

the plan would be to start with the 12x12x18 then move to the 18x18x24 so a rehousing would be occurring anyway at some point

usually i fill the bottom of the Exo Terra talls anyway so that roughly 5 or so inches shaved off height so we’re really talking like a 12x12x13 space for a nearly 2 inch sling which would be 6x it’s DLS or double the recommended 3x DLS so i don’t feel this is is much of a problem or greatly exceeding the norm

if i did feel it were somehow an issue i could rehouse them in a spare 8x8x12 or 12x12x12 but i’ve been having good results so far respectfully

edit: wait i see what you’re saying and think this might be a good idea also if i am going to be housing anyway might as well rehouse in something that would be easier to do this with

 

[viper69]

Rehousing once a year or whatever isn’t gonna make a difference on how chill the spiders are

True

 

[YungRasputin]

re: rehousing, stress, momentary disorientation

had some thoughts on this - let’s say, you as of right now are comfortable in your home, reading this - now let’s say i shoved you into a coffin and sent you to Latvia - then as soon as you get over that disorientation and stress and may feel a tiny bit acclimatized i send you to Tanzania, then Hawaii, then the Himalayas, then China and so on

this is basically what’s taking place when rehousing, you’re transporting the specimen to a completely different environment over and over and over again - because in my scenario with humans there are several constants, dirt, air, water, etc but it would be greatly frightening and disorienting would it not?

this is also much different than when they change homes in the wild, right? you know, if there is severe weather or a bigger animal destroys their home or threatens them they do move but not v far and it’s all one environment - they’re just moving from spots within that contained space in one continuous stream (there’s no jarring “break” or distinction between Space A and Space B as there is with rehousing specimens in captivity)

and further, cupping a specimen is coercive - it’s not something they’re willing engaging in - just the same as putting a cat/dog into a kennel so you can take them to the vet is coercive; they don’t want to go into the box

then there is also the matter of spider intelligence - dogs and cats, once fully mature have the same cognitive/intellectual capabilities and emotional range of a 3-5 year old human, they have the means, on a rudimentary level, to process various phenomenon

but do spiders? and while i usually stand on the side of “arachnids are more intelligent than humans can currently comprehend” I’m not sure, at present, that they are even capable of processing various phenomenon on the level of mammals

so this is some of my thinking with rehousings at present - it would seem a positive thing to be able to eliminate this if possible and this is not me saying rehousing should never be done, obviously, but if you could eliminate this, imo, i think is good

 

[Tarantuland]

this is basically what’s taking place when rehousing,

It’s not though. The tarantula doesn’t have to learn about new laws, culture, language etc. I’m not saying to rehouse them every day. But I still firmly believe 3 rehousings in a lifetime is better than putting a 1.5-2” sling in a 12x12x18 enclosure

 

[jrh3]

It’s not though. The tarantula doesn’t have to learn about new laws, culture, language etc. I’m not saying to rehouse them every day. But I still firmly believe 3 rehousings in a lifetime is better than putting a 1.5-2” sling in a 12x12x18 enclosure

I agree. Most people who put a 2 inch sling in a 12x12x18 do it from lack of experience rehousing advanced species, and are in over their head and probably shouldn’t keep Poecilotheria species. I never understood the reason to limit rehouses and put small spiders in larger enclosures. Here is what a 2.5” Poecilotheria in an appropriate sized enclosure would look like in a 12x12x18. IMO its overkill to the max.

 

[YungRasputin]

It’s not though. The tarantula doesn’t have to learn about new laws, culture, language etc.

i didn’t say any of those things, was talking about the wilds and you could change out things in my example scenario and it would still have the same point - if i continuously dropped you into comparable forests all around Europe i am fairly certain this would be disorienting

I’m not saying to rehouse them every day. But I still firmly believe 3 rehousings in a lifetime is better than putting a 1.5-2” sling in a 12x12x18 enclosure

and i don’t really see anything significantly wrong with that however i also disagree

I agree. Most people who put a 2 inch sling in a 12x12x18 do it from lack of experience rehousing advanced species, and are in over their head and probably shouldn’t keep Poecilotheria species. I never understood the reason to limit rehouses and put small spiders in larger enclosures. Here is what a 2.5” Poecilotheria in an appropriate sized enclosure would look like in a 12x12x18. IMO its overkill to the max.

View attachment 406175

again, I’m not sure where this insinuation of having lack of experience with rehousing advanced species or being fearful is coming from since, again, i would be rehousing the OP specimen when it’s big enough in my estimation to fit snug in an 18x18x24 enclosure

you can disagree without this sort of thing since it’s already been made clear that i don’t have an issue with rehousing things - it’s really reading like there isn’t an actual issue outside of it being against the predominate norm and also “you’ll rehouse a 5+ inch pokie but not 3-4 inch pokie? guess you have no experience and are a fraidy cat” like that’s silly you know

and after consideration, yes, i think it would be easier and less stressful to rehouse a 5+ inch pokie by cupping it in an 12x12x18 Exo Terra rather than trying to coax it out of smaller, more confined space which is restricted to top-down coaxing

 

[Tarantuland]

again, I’m not sure where this insinuation of having lack of experience with rehousing advanced species or being fearful is coming from since, again, i would be rehousing the OP specimen when it’s big enough in my estimation to fit snug in an 18x18x24 enclosure

you can disagree without this sort of thing since it’s already been made clear that i don’t have an issue with rehousing things - it’s really reading like there isn’t an actual issue outside of it being against the predominate norm and also “you’ll rehouse a 5+ inch pokie but not 3-4 pokie? guess you have no experience and are a fraidy cat” like that’s silly you know

I can only speak for myself but this is the common attitude of people who aren’t comfortable rehousing to put things in oversized enclosures. You can say that’s not your situation and that’s fine but it is still a common theme

i didn’t say any of those things, was talking about the wilds and you could change out things in my example scenario and it would still have the same point - if i continuously dropped you into comparable forests all around Europe i am fairly certain this would be disorienting



and i don’t really see anything significantly wrong with that however i also disagree

Still a false equivalency. Humans are not tarantulas. Tarantulas have no advanced brain and terrible vision. They don’t need the amounts of water and calories that humans do. They don’t use tools and have 8 legs. But if I was moved location 3 times in my lifetime I’d also be fine. Been there done that.

 

[jrh3]

again, I’m not sure where this insinuation of having lack of experience with rehousing advanced species or being fearful is coming from since, again, i would be rehousing the OP specimen when it’s big enough in my estimation to fit snug in an 18x18x24 enclosure

you can disagree without this sort of thing since it’s already been made clear that i don’t have an issue with rehousing things

I was under the assumption where you are wanting to put a 2 inch sling in an 12x12x18 enclosure, if this is the case, why? I don’t understand the logic here. It is pointless, spiders do not care, they will web up and make a home when you rehouse them. I mean you’re talking about 4 rehouses max as the spider grows, months apart.

It seems like it would be harder to keep it fed because the spider is going to find a spot to call home and not use the whole enclosure to hunt.

Even my adult arboreal species living in 8x8x12 only use the cork round and thats it. They come out for food or water but are perfectly fine living in a 3” round cork.

 

[YungRasputin]

I can only speak for myself but this is the common attitude of people who aren’t comfortable rehousing to put things in oversized enclosures. You can say that’s not your situation and that’s fine but it is still a common theme

ok however i have also gone into great detail of my philosophy pertaining to this and with that it seems silly to insist upon this rather than address what i’m saying directly with counter-arguments

bigger enclosures for already established slings/juveniles is something which i would say is within the realm of debate - i don’t think it’s unreasonable to question the reasoning behind this practice when the expressed concerns for the opposite, access to food, water, etc is something can already be accounted for

my issues at present with my keeping is really maintaining a fit abdomen rather than a chonky one - none of my specimens have had trouble eating or accessing water as i always provide an easily accessible water dish and also spray the sides of the enclosure to make sure that dehydration isn’t a feasible issue

Still a false equivalency. Humans are not tarantulas. Tarantulas have no advanced brain and terrible vision. They don’t need the amounts of water and calories that humans do. They don’t use tools and have 8 legs. But if I was moved location 3 times in my lifetime I’d also be fine. Been there done that.

i haven’t suggested that if you rehouse them they will die and in fairness, i think I’ve been v explicit on why i am saying what i’m saying

I was under the assumption where you are wanting to put a 2 inch sling in an 12x12x18 enclosure, if this is the case, why? I don’t understand the logic here. It is pointless, spiders do not care, they will web up and make a home when you rehouse them. I mean you’re talking about 4 rehouses max as the spider grows, months apart.

It seems like it would be harder to keep it fed because the spider is going to find a spot to call home and not use the whole enclosure to hunt.

the logic is that my entire philosophy per keeping arachnids and keeping betas is to provide as close approximation of nature as currently possible - this includes providing them large enclosures which mimic the dynamic between the space they inhabit (since betas, like arachnids, also need hiding spots) and the surrounding space beyond that - particularly with arboreal species imo

this to me seems to be something which is neglected when the space of enclosures is being discussed - i’m not sure why exactly that is

also, in my experience with primarily using drop fed crickets, there is not any issue with nutrition in this respect - typically, within 24 hours all feeders have either disappeared or have been killed, v rarely do i see feeders survive this time period and even if so they don’t survive the next 24 - crickets are stupid and have a knack for walking right up to my specimens and bolting straight to their dens after i drop them in

my thought process in this is that i think 2 inches is an already established specimen - my experience with the source from which I’m obtaining this is when they “between X and Y” it’s usually Y but they provide a margin of error which I appreciate but more to the point - i want to replicate, the natural conditions pokies live in which again includes the dynamic between their immediate space and the surrounding space in which the immediate space occupies

I am following the same method as i have been which is, if necessary keep them in a small enclosure then move to a bigger adult enclosure limiting the total amount of rehousings to 1 - ideally being able to house them immediately into their forever enclosure if they’re at the ideal size in my estimation

so with P. rufilata, at 2 inch DLS, i think for my purposes the enclosure is perfect and provides a lot of space for growth - which is needed before housing into the bigger enclosure - i think limiting the experience to 1 rehousing would be best and less stressful and additionally would provide the best environmental conditions for the eventual rehousing itself because there would be easy access via the front or the top in which to cup

my philosophy in terms of terrarium design is not naturalism through complexity but rather simplicity implying nature and using design to create the illusion of a natural environment while including space - i think this is a better way to again, provide maximum space

^thats to say, it would be easy for me to remove piece by piece things within the enclosure and get it bare with the good possibility of it not bolting if do exceedingly carefully, deliberately and slowly - the goal being to provide ample space for cupping that’s safest for the specimen and myself - that’s my ideal scenario with this specimen is to provide a really, really calm and easy rehousing where i can hopefully just place the cup over them gently and then transfer

other methods of rehousing in this respect imply tool assisted coaxing, what I’m saying doesn’t and i would argue that my method would be less likely to lead to aggravation, agitation, bite mode, etc than the other method, respectfully - i want to account for all possible scenarios in everything that i do

Even my adult arboreal species living in 8x8x12 only use the cork round and thats it. They come out for food or water but are perfectly fine living in a 3” round cork.

there is the immediate space of their hide and the surrounding space, that’s how they exist in the wild, of course, which is what i’m considering and what i think is important

since i joined this forum I’ve talked about why I think large enclosures are good - i think the whole reasoning behind the “well they only occupy X amount of space 99% of the time so they need small blah blah” position is flawed

why? because yes, spiders are opportunistic ambush predators who most of the time, stay in their dens, and hunt at the mouth thereof by waiting for prey to walk by - this is true in sling boxes (when they can have live prey) and in regular enclosures however they also do explore their environments on occasion, i think providing exaggerated space is more naturalistic insomuch as they can exist moreso as they would in the wild and i think it’s easier to provide them ideal environmental parameters

 

[jrh3]

Here is a good read. @YungRasputin

How can an enclosure be to big?

i mean besides trying to find where your tiny sling is and having more space on you shelves. what is the issue with having a to large enclosure?

arachnoboards.com

since i joined this forum I’ve talked about why I think large enclosures are good

This is your opinion, vs. what has been proven over the years to work and has also proven problems with over sized tanks that are avoidable with smaller enclosures.

Feel free to experiment, but why risk the spiders life?

 

[YungRasputin]

Here is a good read. @YungRasputin

How can an enclosure be to big?

i mean besides trying to find where your tiny sling is and having more space on you shelves. what is the issue with having a to large enclosure?

arachnoboards.com

I don’t really see how this thread is saying anything that would negate what i’ve already said and addressed - the primary and repeated argument within that seems to be that the specimen is supposedly going to have trouble obtaining feeders which directly contradicts my own experiences of over-eating being the issue, not under-eating

This is your opinion, vs. what has been proven over the years to work and has also proven problems with over sized tanks that are avoidable with smaller enclosures.

this is a fallacious basis for a counter-argument - i don’t think these supposed problems are something which axiomatically true and is directly contradicting what i can see before my owns eyes - under-feeding has not been an issue that’s come up at all

this other issue - escape - never had an escapee before following this method; there is a reason why i use Exo Terras, and that reason is because there *isn’t* gaps like you would find with other manufacturers and this is what makes them truly ideal for arachnids, along with the unique venting system which i like

I’ve seen much larger vent holes in homemade cheese puff tubs that the diameter of the mesh screen of an Exo Terra or for that matter, the replacement tops you can buy which provide even less of a chance for any escape - there is absolutely no way a 2 inch sling would be able to escape

additionally, i think it’s being assumed that homemade enclosures, like what’s being suggested, don’t come with their own problems - like there’s not all sorts of threads about escapees or dead slings involving home-mades, deli cups, etc

Feel free to experiment, but why risk the spiders life?

if i thought there was an actual risk to the specimens then i wouldn’t engage in the practices in which i do