Poecilotheria Rufilata breeding and eating males

[SkyKuba88]

Hello! I have been trying to propagate Poecilotheria Rufilata since August. I have an adult female. The first time, the male lived with her in the terrarium for a good 3 weeks, then he built a sperm network in her terrarium. 3 days later the female molted. Then I fed her thoroughly and let the same male in... After several dozen minutes of mutual interest, the male was eaten. The next two males lasted a maximum of 2 days and were eaten. The strangest thing is that the female does not want to eat any other food (I feed her with Turkish cockroaches, which she occasionally eats, and ignores adult Madagascar cockroaches). Ultimately, she ate three males. The temperature I keep it at is 80 - 86 F. Humidity is about 75%. The dimensions of the terrarium are 8x11x11 inches. What could be wrong? I know that Poecilotheria is not an easy species to breed, but why would it be so fond of eating males?

 

[A guy]

Hello! I have been trying to propagate Poecilotheria Rufilata since August. I have an adult female. The first time, the male lived with her in the terrarium for a good 3 weeks, then he built a sperm network in her terrarium. 3 days later the female molted. Then I fed her thoroughly and let the same male in... After several dozen minutes of mutual interest, the male was eaten. The next two males lasted a maximum of 2 days and were eaten. The strangest thing is that the female does not want to eat any other food (I feed her with Turkish cockroaches, which she occasionally eats, and ignores adult Madagascar cockroaches). Ultimately, she ate three males. The temperature I keep it at is 80 - 86 F. Humidity is about 75%. The dimensions of the terrarium are 8x11x11 inches. What could be wrong? I know that Poecilotheria is not an easy species to breed, but why would it be so fond of eating males?

I'm guessing that she's probably out of sync with the seasonal changes this species needs.

 

[SkyKuba88]

So you suggest wintering it?

 

[l4nsky]

An 8x11x11 is too small to cohab reliably and safely for such a large species. The males can't get away if they need to and she'll grab them everytime. Your first male survived for soo long likely because she was premolt.

Also, and this is just based on my own opinions, research, and experience, but if you're cupping the male and putting him in with the female, he's still going to be worried about you, a large potential predator, being near by even when he senses the female. This has two effects. One effect is he's more likely to trigger the female's feeding response as he'll be roughly stepping on her webbing to get away from you as opposed to doing the slow, rhythmic tapping to let her know it's not prey. The other effect is this splits his attention and IMHO this is the reason why so many males get eaten or almost eaten during observed pairings. They're between a perceived rock and a hard place in these situations as they have no awareness to know that you're there to help and not harm.

When I pair any species, I use a neutral pairing arena monitored by a webcam that both of their enclosures have access to.



There are several distinct benefits to this approach:

• Both specimens have access to their own familiar territory and get to venture out on their own in search of a mate naturally without being harrassed by the keeper.
• Natural shark tanking using their own familiar territory with no keeper harrassment can take place by either using the male's entire enclosure placed near the female (as pictured above) or by granting the male access to the neutral space but keeping the female confined to her enclosure.
• The males have more than enough runway to bolt away from the females if her response isn't receptive for pairing or if he does successfully pair. Out of the dozen or so pairings, I've only lost one male as he was an idiot that got cornered in her burrow. It was a bit of a Hail Mary move anyways as the male was ancient and I had no idea where the female was in her molt cycle to gauge receptivity. She did end up molting a few weeks after turning him into a snack.

View attachment 1662723698000_D03F27533FD3131662723698.mp4









Here's my male and female P. rufilata making their introductions, which you can hear the tapping back and forth. Unfortunately, I can't get the actual pairing clip to load up as it's close to 18 mins of just spider sex lol.

 

[fcat]

I would say your timing is off...it's almost non-existent if you paired and she molted 3 days later. He was eaten because she was not able to do anything to stop an impending molt and he was a threat.

That said, I would assume that's what happened to the other males.

Another suggestion is to learn how to identify premolt Ts....they fast.... Then start learning their behaviors.

Ts can actually make eggs without being paired therefore also prior to being paired. They will suddenly be fat without you feeding them. The way to tell if it's eggs or just being premolt is to hold a flashlight to their abdomen. An abdomen that glows is gravid. One that is not is premolt or just fat.

What does wintering mean to you, I'm curious...

Assuming you read all the breeding reports after all these failed attempts... Maybe it would be prudent to observe successful pairings so you can get a feel for receptive versus hostile behaviors. After a few you will see a pattern.

Did you ever have a plan to supervise this pairing/be able to physically intervene to save him? By doing that you can pair him again when they molts instead of drops a sac...usually after a few months of waiting. Not 3 days.

It's possible her condition are not ideal to begin with. What is the world's largest arboreal tarantula doing in a tank that small?

I promise you'll learn a lot if you keep researching.....

 

[SkyKuba88]

What does wintering mean to you, I'm curious...

Sorry, I use the terminology we use in my country. This means lowering the temperature and reducing air humidity (like in winter).

An 8x11x11 is too small to cohab reliably and safely for such a large species. The males can't get away if they need to and she'll grab them everytime. Your first male survived for soo long likely because she was premolt.

Also, and this is just based on my own opinions, research, and experience, but if you're cupping the male and putting him in with the female, he's still going to be worried about you, a large potential predator, being near by even when he senses the female. This has two effects. One effect is he's more likely to trigger the female's feeding response as he'll be roughly stepping on her webbing to get away from you as opposed to doing the slow, rhythmic tapping to let her know it's not prey. The other effect is this splits his attention and IMHO this is the reason why so many males get eaten or almost eaten during observed pairings. They're between a perceived rock and a hard place in these situations as they have no awareness to know that you're there to help and not harm.

When I pair any species, I use a neutral pairing arena monitored by a webcam that both of their enclosures have access to.
View attachment 487369
View attachment 487370

There are several distinct benefits to this approach:

• Both specimens have access to their own familiar territory and get to venture out on their own in search of a mate naturally without being harrassed by the keeper.
• Natural shark tanking using their own familiar territory with no keeper harrassment can take place by either using the male's entire enclosure placed near the female (as pictured above) or by granting the male access to the neutral space but keeping the female confined to her enclosure.
• The males have more than enough runway to bolt away from the females if her response isn't receptive for pairing or if he does successfully pair. Out of the dozen or so pairings, I've only lost one male as he was an idiot that got cornered in her burrow. It was a bit of a Hail Mary move anyways as the male was ancient and I had no idea where the female was in her molt cycle to gauge receptivity. She did end up molting a few weeks after turning him into a snack.

View attachment 487371









Here's my male and female P. rufilata making their introductions, which you can hear the tapping back and forth. Unfortunately, I can't get the actual pairing clip to load up as it's close to 18 mins of just spider sex lol.

A huge dose of knowledge! Thank you! Immediately after reading your post, I took out the fourth male that I let into her. I'll make something like your propagation container
I heard a lot of stories, e.g. that their temperature is too high/too low, that it is too dry to pour water over the terrarium to create mud, but I didn't believe it. However, one thing has been repeated, namely the size of the tank in which they copulate. Earlier, during this almost successful first copulation, both spiders were in a terrarium measuring 20 x 20 x 40 cm. Regarding the molt, I did not expect it at all, because the female was very lively and even aggressive towards the operations I performed with tweezers in the terrarium. It is slightly lower, but deeper and when, for example, I clean up the leftovers (when she happens to eat something), the female sits calmly. That's why I thought that this size of terrarium would be appropriate. Well, I'll do something like what you recommended. Thank you!

 

[angelarachnid]

1/ How do you know your female rufilata is mature?
2/ can you post a couple of pics of her, including underside
3/ it is (was) well known that female rufilata will moult if a mature male is in the same room as them, even if they have moulted not long ago, and after the first couple of days after mating the male should be removed to a different room or even dwelling, if multiple femlae rufilatas are to be mated house the male in one room and add the females from the main spider room, into the room with the male for mating one at a time so as not to induce a moult.

Your timing is not of the female is freshley moulted so best time to introduce a male,

All this is in an old BTS article of mine, join the BTS and get access to all the journals on line then you will really have a huge dose of knowledge

 

[SkyKuba88]

My rufilata is almost 8 cm long, so I assume from its size that it is an adult. I will attach photos when he comes out of hiding. However, after eating the male, she hasn't shown herself to the world since Monday

 

[TheraMygale]

I think we already brought up the subject of enclosure size in another thread. What @l4nsky says is valuable information. Take notes. Id be printing all of this in case internet crashes one day and all is lost.

And what @angelarachnid posted… youre lucky. Youre getting feedback from very knowledgeable members.

An 8x11x11 is too small to cohab reliably and safely for such a large species. The males can't get away if they need to and she'll grab them everytime. Your first male survived for soo long likely because she was premolt.

Also, and this is just based on my own opinions, research, and experience, but if you're cupping the male and putting him in with the female, he's still going to be worried about you, a large potential predator, being near by even when he senses the female. This has two effects. One effect is he's more likely to trigger the female's feeding response as he'll be roughly stepping on her webbing to get away from you as opposed to doing the slow, rhythmic tapping to let her know it's not prey. The other effect is this splits his attention and IMHO this is the reason why so many males get eaten or almost eaten during observed pairings. They're between a perceived rock and a hard place in these situations as they have no awareness to know that you're there to help and not harm.

When I pair any species, I use a neutral pairing arena monitored by a webcam that both of their enclosures have access to.
View attachment 487369
View attachment 487370

There are several distinct benefits to this approach:

• Both specimens have access to their own familiar territory and get to venture out on their own in search of a mate naturally without being harrassed by the keeper.
• Natural shark tanking using their own familiar territory with no keeper harrassment can take place by either using the male's entire enclosure placed near the female (as pictured above) or by granting the male access to the neutral space but keeping the female confined to her enclosure.
• The males have more than enough runway to bolt away from the females if her response isn't receptive for pairing or if he does successfully pair. Out of the dozen or so pairings, I've only lost one male as he was an idiot that got cornered in her burrow. It was a bit of a Hail Mary move anyways as the male was ancient and I had no idea where the female was in her molt cycle to gauge receptivity. She did end up molting a few weeks after turning him into a snack.

View attachment 487371









Here's my male and female P. rufilata making their introductions, which you can hear the tapping back and forth. Unfortunately, I can't get the actual pairing clip to load up as it's close to 18 mins of just spider sex lol.

Thank you so much for taking the time to share this. This is different from what i see usualy. I dont watch many channels. Just Daves and Tom. I am archiving this for my ten year project.

 

[angelarachnid]

have had a few emails regarding BTS membership here is a link to the membership form (I hope)

Membership form

To ensure that no members risk being omitted from a journal print run, the BTS advises that members join or renew online at the BTS E-store here. BTS now operates a set membership year that runs fr…

www.thebts.co.uk