Poecilotheria identification

[Cooper]

Thank you very much everybody! Now I will be able to prove that my P. formosa is actually a..........P. formosa!!(when I get it )

 

[Telson]

I just got a P/regalis (I think!). At least I ORDERED a P.regalis anyway! It's only about 3/4" so I can't see any of the color patterns on it at this point to make sure.

A prev post asked when these colors and patterns begin to show? How big does a P. have to be before someone can confirm the species?

 

[Aboreal Rayne]

Dejavue

Ya know that's a bit wierd....This EXACT senario happend to me! My first pokie was supposed to be a P. Formosa... As she got larger, the truth became more painfully obvious. She was in fact a Sri-Lankan Ornamental, by no means a bad T. But for what she accually was, badly over-priced. I wonder if our T's are related, sold by the same dealer? I dunno half of me wants to find and kill him, the other half of me wants to kill my self for my ignorance. A word to the wise: EVERY Pokie sling' I've ever seen (Even P. Metallica) look dangerously simmilar. Making it Very easy to pass things off as something else. It's my experience that you will begin to see banding and other adult coloring after 4-5 molts. In fact unless it's from a reputable dealer, don't buy Pokie slings under an 1.5". This way you can compair photos of adults to what you buy. If everyone did this,(Like I should have) Then what has happend here really wouldn't be possable. Anyway nuf' ranting...hope yall gained from this....

~Rayne~

 

[Telson]

What boggles MY mind is....

How can a breeder send out Poecs and not know what they are? I mean, if the hobbyist buys direct from the breeder, the breeder obviously must know what the mother was or he'd have not been able to match a male and breed it at all. If the hobbyist buys from a DEALER, then the DEALER must have bought from the breeder, and we come back to the same point!

Only 2 ways I can see this happening is if the breeder is ripping ppl off intentionally, or one of the parties involved (be it breeder OR dealers) is guilty of serious negligence in stocking the slings without keeping them separated and inventoried in a logical manner.

I can see the possibility of miss-IDing WCs, but it's still either negligent or at least ignorant of the person making the ID, and of the people whos hands it passes through on its way to the hobbyist for not double checking (and knowing the difference considering WC T's will be big enough to tell!!) before they accept payment and happily ship them off to customers! CB slings though, there's just no excuse for the breeder if the miss-ID occurred at that level!

 

[ArachnoJoost]

Originally posted by tarantulakeeper
Is there a general instar when the yellow coloration shows up? (if present) John

In my experience that differs from species to species, my regalis got his yellow striping very late (at about 2 1/2"), and my 1" ornata already has bright yellow striping. I don't know about the other species.
That poecilotheria chart is really handy! thanks for putting it online. At least I know that my regalis is indeed a regalis

 

[KelliH]

Many of the T dealers here in the U.S. get their spiders from Europe and are only going by what they are "told" the spiders are. And I am pretty sure that is what happened in this case.

So, anyone know a good source for subfusca and/or formosa?

 

[SSW.com]

Originally posted by Telson

If the hobbyist buys from a DEALER, then the DEALER must have bought from the breeder, and we come back to the same point!

Dont forget.....there is also the wholesaler....and/or importer. All it takes is for ONE dishonest guy in the line....that wants to put a little extra in his pocket and you have mis ID T's. And believe me ....there is at least ONE dishonest guy out there.

 

[Telson]

I'm sure there is more than one... But it seems pretty stupid to send out slings under the wrong name in order to make some extra $ when it's bound to come back and bite you in the a$$ later when word spread that you're ripping ppl off, be it breeders, wholesalers, or who ever. Eventually the hobbyists will be complaining and the dealers will be asking the wholesaler wtf, and so forth, and regardless of who actualy did it the next in line isn't gonna wanna buy from you anymore, so it messes up EVERYONE downline, the scammer included.

 

[SSW.com]

Yes it is Stupid. And its usually the Dealer that gets hurt the worst in a deal like that. Cause All he can do is try his best to make it right with his customer....which usually means ....He takes the loss. Then it boils down to.....One persons word against another persons word, and you never will know the truth. Trust me ...its already happened. And very few know the truth.
And the Scammer is still out there.

 

[Telson]

I'd think it a wise move for the dealers to consult and find out which wholesaler they have in common who has sent them the most miss-IDd slings or T's. If it turns out that it's coming from numerous wholesalers, then they should all be contacted and informed that one of their sources needs weeded out in the same manner, by talking to other wholesalers to see who stands out for sending misslabeled stock. So on until the culprit or culprits is nailed down, and then they should all stop ordering from the SOBs.

Just how I would try to resolve it. :?

 

[MrDeranged]

In defense, it is also possible to just be in error. Sometimes vials come in marked Pf. Is it P. fasciata or P. formosa? As said before, when they're small, it's real hard to tell. I'm not saying this excuses the screw ups, but it does explain how it can sometimes happen.

Scott

 

[tarantulakeeper]

Originally posted by ArachnoJoost
In my experience that differs from species to species, my regalis got his yellow striping very late (at about 2 1/2"), and my 1" ornata already has bright yellow striping. I don't know about the other species.
That poecilotheria chart is really handy! thanks for putting it online. At least I know that my regalis is indeed a regalis

Thanks for the insight. I have small slings of rufilata, formosa, regalis, fasciata, pederseni, striata and one subfusca and one miranda. I'll note ventral changes as they molt and update the list. John

 

[Telson]

Originally posted by mrderanged
In defense, it is also possible to just be in error. Sometimes vials come in marked Pf. Is it P. fasciata or P. formosa? As said before, when they're small, it's real hard to tell. I'm not saying this excuses the screw ups, but it does explain how it can sometimes happen.

Scott

Understandable on the part of the reciever of the shipment, assuming they've ordered both these species, but obviously that means extreme negligence on the part of whoever is sending out two species with initials P.F. in the order. If a breeder is sending formosa, and it's all he/she is sending, it's understandable of course, seeing as the reciever should know what they ordered from what source and stock it accordingly, relabelling if needed due to having another species stocked with the initials P.F.

That just comes down to separating the REPUTABLE dealers from the rest who just get stock in and ship it out with little more than a glance at the initials on the vial. I can only assume that the latter will suffer in the long run selling to a hobby such as this, where people talk at length about who is good to buy from and who isn't.

 

[Code Monkey]

Yes, there do seem to have been some very costly Poecilotheria ID errors highlighted recently, and while I don't know for certain unless someone feels like PM'ing me (hint hint hint), I have a good suspicion who the suspect wholesaler responsible for them is.

The European supplier (or suppliers) of these species (formosa & subfusca) really doesn't have anything to gain. Americans pay "ridiculous" prices for Pokies next to the European market. The initial breeder and European exporter is already making a killing and I'm sure would rather continue to make a killing versus a one-time quick buck.

But the American importer, oh, they can try to point the finger at 'terrible mistakes' while doubling or tripling their profits.

 

[phormingochilus]

Poecilotheria ID key

Mr. Jacobi

I get a very bad taste when I see how you take credit for my work. For all of you I am the creator of the Poecilotheria PDF key. Just to underline it. Check what is written with minute letters left of the vertical black bar in the top:

"All copyrights included Søren Rafn 2003"

Well - Søren Rafn happens to be me.

I have used quite a great amount of time to compile these data and to draw the illustrations and write the key. And if you read the rules of my site were you stole this material you would be aware that you cannot use this material public without my permission - which you never applied for or gained.

I am this close >< to expell you from my site and I see no reason why not. Only thing is that to get rid of leeches like you I am tempted to close access for all members on my site which are not my personal friends - which would be thanks to your respectless abuse of my material.

I hope this clear up matters a bit. And rest assured Mr. Jacobi that I will monitor your moves on this and other list very very intense for now. So remove your link to MY MATERIAL which you have uploaded without permission on your site and get professional in handling other people's data: Ask permission - and learn to accept a reject.

Søren Rafn

 

[Steve Nunn]

Re: Poecilotheria ID key

Welcome Soren, even if it is under such sad circumstances.

While I'm thinking of your talent, when on Earth are you going to draw P.metallica??? I want a life size tat on my left forearm and one of your pokie drawings will be the design. If you aren't going to do P.metallica, I'll go with the P.subfusca.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[phormingochilus]

Re: Poecilotheria ID key

Yes it is under sad circumstances I had hoped that free access to core material could be administered without such abuse. I am inclined to think - it's not possible - and very much inclined to make the site strictly private and only accessed by my personal friends tho' I think it would be a sad continuation of my services.

Well - there will be a metallica drawing sometime soon I only need a fresh specimen to draw from - anyone willing to donate such for me ? LOL ;-) Nah - I need access to a good dorsal shot and then i can start. Hopefully sometime this year? Perhaps the next if you can wait Steve? ;-)

Regards
Søren

 

[Steve Nunn]

Re: Re: Poecilotheria ID key

Originally posted by phormingochilus
very much inclined to make the site strictly private and only accessed by my personal friends tho' I think it would be a sad continuation of my services.

Yes, it would be sad, the description papers site is one of great value to the serious enthusiast. I was extremely glad to see your efforts to put two of Pococks papers onto pdf and I think your notes can be invaluable identification (I'm looking forward to watching that grow ).

Well - there will be a metallica drawing sometime soon I only need a fresh specimen to draw from - Nah - I need access to a good dorsal shot and then i can start. Hopefully sometime this year? Perhaps the next if you can wait Steve? ;-)

Oh, I can wait. Your pokie drawings are the best I've seen, I'm looking forward to more.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Crotalus]

Re: Re: Poecilotheria ID key

Originally posted by phormingochilus
Well - there will be a metallica drawing sometime soon I only need a fresh specimen to draw from - anyone willing to donate such for me ? LOL ;-) Nah - I need access to a good dorsal shot and then i can start. Hopefully sometime this year? Perhaps the next if you can wait Steve? ;-)

Regards
Søren

Hi Søren!

Sorry I ran out of metallicas ;-)
Perhaps you can ask Henrik for a exuvia

/Lelle

 

[Code Monkey]

Soren, welcome even, if as Steve says, it's not under the best of circumstances. I've been reading your posts on the yahoo lists for ages and find your knowledge of Ts and T taxonomy a great boon to the hobby. Please don't let what I believe was just a genuine attempt to be helpful to the hobby at large soil you on this forum or Jacobi.