Phorid flies & possible nematodes - help me develop a protocol?

[asunshinefix]

I noticed some of my spiders seeming a little stressed starting a few days ago, but it took me until today to realize: I had a a few phorid flies unrelated to my tarantulas last week which were dealt with, but now they're in my T enclosures too. (I know they're phorid flies because they run rather than fly, leave a smudge when they're squished, and pouring bleach down my drains killed most of them.)

So I feel like an idiot, and most of my tarantulas are in obvious distress. I think the flies may have brought their nematode friends to the party - I can certainly see long, thin shapes that sometimes move in the substrate, as well as similar imprints on the sub, but roots and coco fibre have fooled me before so not jumping to conclusions yet. The driest enclosures seem slightly better off but still affected.

I'm attempting to develop a treatment protocol and I'd really appreciate some feedback. All Ts are terrestrial New Worlds and can put up with dry conditions for a while.

I'm thinking my best bet is to prep a bunch of Tupperware containers with just a bit of paper towel as substrate, a hide, and a water dish, in the hopes of minimizing places the flies will want to breed. If it becomes clear that nematode infection is comorbid, I'll try the dunking method. I'll also hang some fly paper around my enclosures. I think making some traps would be a good call too, and I'd appreciate any trap recipes you might have.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan? If you have any suggestions please hit me with them. I'll add some photos as I can.

For what it's worth, the species we're dealing with are:
-G. pulchra 3"
-G. actaeon 2.75"
-Very angry G. porteri 5.5", mature male
-G. pulchripes, 3.5"
-H. chilensis 2.75"
-B. albopilosum hobby form, 4"
-B. albopilosum Nicaraguan form, 2"
-P. sp. Machala 2.75"
-E. campestratus 3/4"
-E. pulcherrimaklaasi 3/4"
-A. chalcodes 1"

 

[Paul1126]

I'm not sure they are a horrible pest to have.
Maybe let enclosures dry make sure they don't have a food source.
I would maybe try rehousing the ones with bad infestations into dry enclosures, maybe with no substrate and just paper towels
Any tarantulas you have without the flies in them need to be separated ASAP
And make sure your feeders are away from the flies

There is a ton of traps you can use for them, have a look online

 

[asunshinefix]

Thanks so much for the reply. The first thing I did was separate the ones who are showing symptoms! And I froze my feeders, not worth the risk. Do you think I should include a water bowl in the dry enclosures? I feel like it might draw moisture-seeking nasties away from the T.

Are you familiar with the dunking technique for nematodes? My beloved H. chilensis seems to have some white around her mouth. I'm going to do so more research as well but I welcome any information you can give me. I took a bunch of photos and gifs - will make a separate post for those

 

[Paul1126]

Thanks so much for the reply. The first thing I did was separate the ones who are showing symptoms! And I froze my feeders, not worth the risk. Do you think I should include a water bowl in the dry enclosures? I feel like it might draw moisture-seeking nasties away from the T.

Are you familiar with the dunking technique for nematodes? My beloved H. chilensis seems to have some white around her mouth. I'm going to do so more research as well but I welcome any information you can give me. I took a bunch of photos and gifs - will make a separate post for those

I would include water dishes I think, I've never had a phorid fly infestation (touch wood)
I would include lots of traps for the flies in the room they have infested obviously none in the enclosures themselves.
I have no idea how you'd get the nematodes off of the T but anything would be worth trying

 

[asunshinefix]

And a few gifs. Sorry for the shakey hands but I could definitely see movement apart from my tremor. The substrate is coco coir, but some of this looks awfully suspicious...

I would include water dishes I think, I've never had a phorid fly infestation (touch wood)
I would include lots of traps for the flies in the room they have infested obviously none in the enclosures themselves.
I have no idea how you'd get the nematodes off of the T but anything would be worth trying

Sorry it took me forever to post those gifs! I'm inclined to add a water dish, if for nothing else as a potential deterrent. Going to work on isolating everyone now, and I'm going to see if I can find any reports of success ridding a T of nemotodes. I'll keep this thread up to date - please if anyone has any advice or crazy ideas or anything at all I'd really appreciate hearing from you.

 

[Demonclaws]

Looks like fly larvae and pupae to me. What made you think it was nematodes? Can you get better images? Mouth part looks normal to me at least.

Phorid fly will disappear in a few days if your enclosures have no decaying organic matter. It's not just moisture that attracts them.

 

[asunshinefix]

Looks like fly larvae and pupae to me. What made you think it was nematodes? Can you get better images? Mouth part looks normal to me at least.

Phorid fly will disappear in a few days if your enclosures have no decaying organic matter. It's not just moisture that attracts them.

That's a relief! I thought the mouth parts in the first and second photoslooked like a nematode infection. There's also the substrate that moves on its own, but fly larvae could definitely cause that.

 

[Paul1126]

Phorid fly will disappear in a few days if your enclosures have no decaying organic matter. It's not just moisture that attracts them.

This is why I recommended dumping all enclosures that have the flies in them and getting new sub and keeping them dry for a while

 

[asunshinefix]

This is why I recommended dumping all enclosures that have the flies in them and getting new sub and keeping them dry for a while

Exactly what I'm doing! Thank goodness for species that thrive in arid conditions... the only one that might not be thrilled is my Pampho but I think it'll live.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

I think parasitic nematodes are host specific so the ones you're worrying about would have to be brought in from somewhere (a WC tarantula that already has them for example).

I have soil nematodes in my springtail colony and I also had them in my first P. pulcher's enclosure back when he was a sling (I accidentally over-moistened the sub but he grew up into a healthy MM so they obviously weren't an issue).

 

[Vanisher]

Hello. I had a huge, i mean HUGE infestation some 10 years ago. The flies could be counted in thousands! Every enclosure where infested, some to a ridiciously point. The spiders was very stressed i assume. They where disturbed by flues all the time, keeping brushing them away with the legs. The spidrrroom was full of flies. First i trued to let the enclosures dry out, but that did not work. When some spiders died i figured i got to do something radical. This i s how i erradicate the flies:

I bought flypapers. Sticky flypapers that i attatched on cans and put up on several places in the room. Mostly on the tarantula shelf, near the ventilation on the terrariums. Soon they became black of flies. And when this happend, i put in new flypapercans But the flies already inside the enclosures had already set up shop inside the tanks and breeding like crazy. Suddenly i came up with a genius idea. The slingenclisure was moved into a diffrent room and was rehoused. I returned to my plan! I lined delicups in difrent sizes (depending on how large tanks was) with flypaper and some moist peat. I slso put in a dead cricket inside. I put on a lid with holes and putted the flypaper lined delicuos inside the tarantula tanks! Now, the flues where drawn into and inside the delicups and got stuck on the flypaper. It took some month, but sliwly i got the infestation under the control!

 

[asunshinefix]

Unfortunately things have taken a turn for the worse. I managed to get almost everyone into a dry enclosure with just paper towel, but I think it is in fact the phorid flies that have infested the Ts. Every one that I can see (so 9 out of 11) have the same symptoms - they look like they are going to molt and I can see the carapace harden and retract and the exuvial fluid come out, but nobody has actually molted and I fear I'm just watching them die. They just slowly move less and less and one is already pretty much done. I can see a nematode or two around the mouthparts of a few of my Ts, not sure if that's relevant or not.

Do you guys think I should try to soften the carapace and remove it? I'm afraid they won't be developed enough underneath to survive.

If anyone has any advice or ideas or anything, I'd really appreciate it. Pretty sure I'm about to watch everyone die.

 

[Paul1126]

Hello. I had a huge, i mean HUGE infestation some 10 years ago. The flies could be counted in thousands! Every enclosure where infested, some to a ridiciously point. The spiders was very stressed i assume. They where disturbed by flues all the time, keeping brushing them away with the legs. The spidrrroom was full of flies. First i trued to let the enclosures dry out, but that did not work. When some spiders died i figured i got to do something radical. This i s how i erradicate the flies:

I bought flypapers. Sticky flypapers that i attatched on cans and put up on several places in the room. Mostly on the tarantula shelf, near the ventilation on the terrariums. Soon they became black of flies. And when this happend, i put in new flypapercans But the flies already inside the enclosures had already set up shop inside the tanks and breeding like crazy. Suddenly i came up with a genius idea. The slingenclisure was moved into a diffrent room and was rehoused. I returned to my plan! I lined delicups in difrent sizes (depending on how large tanks was) with flypaper and some moist peat. I slso put in a dead cricket inside. I put on a lid with holes and putted the flypaper lined delicuos inside the tarantula tanks! Now, the flues where drawn into and inside the delicups and got stuck on the flypaper. It took some month, but sliwly i got the infestation under the control!

How did you get such a bad infestation?

 

[asunshinefix]

How did you get such a bad infestation?

I live in an apartment building, apparently I have a neighbour who is unfamiliar with the concept of hygiene. Last summer it was roaches, then fruit flies, then phorid flies and house files at the same time - speaking of which, could house flies cause the symptoms I'm seeing?

I took a ton of photos to illustrate what I"m talking about, just uploading now

 

[Paul1126]

I live in an apartment building, apparently I have a neighbour who is unfamiliar with the concept of hygiene. Last summer it was roaches, then fruit flies, then phorid flies and house files at the same time - speaking of which, could house flies cause the symptoms I'm seeing?

I took a ton of photos to illustrate what I"m talking about, just uploading now

I was talking about our swedish friend.
It's one of my main worries is phorid flies, truly horrible creatures
What sort of hygiene does he fail at?

 

[Vanisher]

How did you get such a bad infestation?

I have had those flies during the years. I have always had them! That time they exploded in number. Dont know why? Some seems never have any flues, i always have. But usalky they are not in any huge number

 

[asunshinefix]

Yeah I don't know what spawned this but it's brutal. I'm honestly in tears right now.

If you have even a vague guess at what's going on, by all means share it.

Right now I'm trying to figure out whether I should try to remove some of the hardened carapaces. I'm leaning toward no but it'd be nice to hear others' opinions.

I've been up all night trying to deal with this so I'm a bit loopy. Here are all of the spiders that for sure are suffering from whatever is harming them. For sure they have been exposed to phorid flies and house flies. I suspect nematodes are also a factor. I'm trying to stay calm but I feel like I'm about to lose everyone and it's honestly devastating.

G. pulchra: the carapace is noticeably pulled back and raised in the centre, almost like she's about to molt but she just molted a couple weeks ago. Excessive webbing too and she just seems really uncomfortable.



B. albo "Nicaragua:" carapace also looks like it wants to molt as it is raised. Either that or I'm seeing parasites underneath.
.


Pamphobeteus sp. Machala: you know it's a bad sign when you can rehouse this beast with no drama whatsover. This one's carapace has shrunk back and exuvial fluid is present but no molt.



Euathlus pulcherrimaklaasi: this thing is such a speed demon I've never been able to photograph it before. Now it's barely moving, and again has the hardened carapace.



A. chalcodes: heavy premolt and I watched the carapace bulge several times, but it never popped.



E. campestratus: I'm really attached to this one tbh. Same deal as most - looks about to molt but carapace bulges and hardens.

 

[Paul1126]

The only way they would have means to infest an enclosure if there is a food source, I don't believe for a second these flies just breed anywhere

 

[asunshinefix]

Oh for sure, they were breeding in my drains and I saw a few around my enclosures after bleaching the drains. Even as I'm rehousing everybody I've only seen three or four tops, but I think they're probably hiding deep in the substrate or something.

 

[boina]

What the hell... I come back to just have a look around and find this.

1. Phorid flies can annoy spiders but the cannot harm them. It 's completely impossible. The larvae develope in the earth and not anywhere on/in a spider.

2. Keeping the spiders on paper towels is just going to stress the spiders out and make them less resiliant

3. Your spiders look completely fine. The carapace always looks like that - you just never looked closely enough.

4. Stop stressing out. A few flies won't even bother any spider - they deal with much more flies in the wild. And stop stressing your spiders. But them back in their homes. And most definitely do NOT try to remove the carapace. You'll kill several perfectly fine and healthy spiders.

5. Jeez.

6. Again: Please, do not try to remove the carapace - you'll actively kill healthy spiders.