Paver "Sand"/Gravel for Substrate

[pannaking22]

Out of curiousity, would paver sand work as scorp substrate? Unfortunately it seems to be more rock than sand, but I got it for free so that's a plus. I have what's basically gravel as well. Both have been used for mixing succulent plant soil, but I have lots of extra of each and want to get a couple new desert scorps. I'd give it a good washing before use just to be safe, but not sure how well they'd do on gravel without anything else mixed in.

 

[Scorpionluva]

Yup i use it mixed with regular play sand at a 3:1 ratio adds a nice texture to otherwise ordinary looking play sand.

 

[brandontmyers]

I use pretty much only paver sand. My Lowe's or Home Depot for some reason do not have play sand so I have been using paver sand for a few years now. Seems to work really well. I always mix it with a little bit of cocofiber and/or bentonite. I will say that because it is so coarse, it does not hold up a burrow as well as play sand mixed in the same ratio.

 

[Scorpionluva]

I use pretty much only paver sand. My Lowe's or Home Depot for some reason do not have play sand so I have been using paver sand for a few years now. Seems to work really well. I always mix it with a little bit of cocofiber and/or bentonite. I will say that because it is so coarse, it does not hold up a burrow as well as play sand mixed in the same ratio.

I hear that alot that people have trouble finding play sand at lowes or home depot but mine always seem to have more play sand and very rarely do they have paver sand. Do you bake yours ? Only reason i ask is when i mix mine in with play sand and bake it - the paver turns hard as excavator clay and i have to break it all up before i use it.

 

[brandontmyers]

I do not bake it. I honestly should but I am lazy about it. I do however let it sit in the sun for a few days. There is a TON of moisture in the bag when I buy it. I usually let it sit there so it can dry out and then commence to mixing. The bentonite works fantastically with the paver sand but because the paver sand is so coarse, it doesn't always mix very well so I end up with some really hard areas and some that do not hold at all.

 

[pannaking22]

Thanks for the responses everyone, for whatever reason it seems to be difficult to find play sand around here. Think it would be ok to keep the scorps just on the gravel/kind of sand? I have cocofiber as well, so I can mix that in too. Since I'd be getting scorplings I'd likely just give them a hide or two they can use while young.

 

[darkness975]

Thanks for the responses everyone, for whatever reason it seems to be difficult to find play sand around here. Think it would be ok to keep the scorps just on the gravel/kind of sand? I have cocofiber as well, so I can mix that in too. Since I'd be getting scorplings I'd likely just give them a hide or two they can use while young.

What species are you acquiring?

I used to do landscaping and used paver sand when installing patios and such. Hate the stuff and it seems too course for Enclosure use for me personally ..
If you are going to use it it may not be a bad idea to mix it like others have said.

I am a bit surprised that Home Depot doesn't have play sand given how popular it is for use with a large number of things. The ones around here seem to have all play sand and not much else.

 

[Scorpionluva]

Thanks for the responses everyone, for whatever reason it seems to be difficult to find play sand around here. Think it would be ok to keep the scorps just on the gravel/kind of sand? I have cocofiber as well, so I can mix that in too. Since I'd be getting scorplings I'd likely just give them a hide or two they can use while young.

Try a pool supply store if a local home depot or lowes doesnt have play sand. Ive seen bags of it at those places also. You can definitely use coco fiber to mix with it also. Only warning ill give ya with the paver sand is if/when you bake it - it tends to create even more dust than regular play sand. I mean clouds of dust from it !

 

[pannaking22]

What species are you acquiring?

I used to do landscaping and used paver sand when installing patios and such. Hate the stuff and it seems too course for Enclosure use for me personally ..
If you are going to use it it may not be a bad idea to mix it like others have said.

I am a bit surprised that Home Depot doesn't have play sand given how popular it is for use with a large number of things. The ones around here seem to have all play sand and not much else.

Looking at Hottentotta and Androctonus right now, though I'll likely be getting some Parabuthus in the future as well once I sell off a couple more things and have the space.

The coarseness was definitely my biggest concern, so I'm hoping mixing some cocofiber in there will take the edge off. I'll probably start doing some experimenting with it today.

I've been surprised at how hard it is to find down here too. I'm not sure if people in this town just don't do sandboxes? Admittedly there's plenty of sand all around town since this is a desert, but still.

Try a pool supply store if a local home depot or lowes doesnt have play sand. Ive seen bags of it at those places also. You can definitely use coco fiber to mix with it also. Only warning ill give ya with the paver sand is if/when you bake it - it tends to create even more dust than regular play sand. I mean clouds of dust from it !

Hadn't thought of that! And that's verrrry good to know about the dust. I'll just have to make sure I can beeline it to the balcony to let that blow off once it's done baking. What temp do you bake yours at?

 

[Scorpionluva]

Hadn't thought of that! And that's verrrry good to know about the dust. I'll just have to make sure I can beeline it to the balcony to let that blow off once it's done baking. What temp do you bake yours at?

I bake all my substrates at 300-350 for 20 mins minumum. Coco being the lowest temps and longest period. High temps will burn coco bad and stink your whole house up. Some People use lower temps for longer periods of time but im sure as long as youre baking it with a decent degree of temp and time most methods will work.

 

[darkness975]

I don't bake substrate, though I don't buy bags from Home Depot so maybe it's an origins thing or something.

 

[Scorpionluva]

I don't bake substrate, though I don't buy bags from Home Depot so maybe it's an origins thing or something.

Where do you get your sand at ?
The reason i bake all of my substrates and decor is to rid them of any chemicals or anything that could contaminate the substrate basically a sterlization process bringing it all to a nice clean neutral starting point. I didnt use to bake any of my substrates or decor and it seems there were always little critters in my substrate that were hard to get rid of
Never had that problem since baking it though.

 

[darkness975]

Where do you get your sand at ?
The reason i bake all of my substrates and decor is to rid them of any chemicals or anything that could contaminate the substrate basically a sterlization process bringing it all to a nice clean neutral starting point. I didnt use to bake any of my substrates or decor and it seems there were always little critters in my substrate that were hard to get rid of
Never had that problem since baking it though.

I spring the extra money for the sand from Petco or wherever. Sometimes they have cool colors.

I have one Enclosure which the sand is walnut shell based or some such. It's interesting.

 

[Scorpionluva]

I spring the extra money for the sand from Petco or wherever. Sometimes they have cool colors.

I have one Enclosure which the sand is walnut shell based or some such. It's interesting.

Ive used those sands before and i found it quite odd they wouldnt absorb water at all (some of them but maybe not all )
I mixed it with regular play sand and when water was misted onto substrate the "pet brand" would wash away on top of the water but would never absorb the water either

The walnut shell substrates are not safe to use with inverts due to the pesticides that are used on most walnut trees
walnuts also produce their own toxin called juglone which is toxic to most animals and also inhibits growth in most plants
I personally seen the proof in 2 parabuthus liosoma juvenile females i bought at the reptile expo a couple years ago. Both born from same brood , both were 3i - 1 was kept on sand and grew up to a normal size at adulthood while the other was kept on walnut shell sub
The 1 kept on the walnut shellvwas almost half the size as the other 1 and also died shortly after reaching adult size
Granted thats just 1 example and in no way makes it a fact but with all the other negative info on it- i know id never risk my scorps using it again

 

[darkness975]

Ive used those sands before and i found it quite odd they wouldnt absorb water at all (some of them but maybe not all )
I mixed it with regular play sand and when water was misted onto substrate the "pet brand" would wash away on top of the water but would never absorb the water either

The walnut shell substrates are not safe to use with inverts due to the pesticides that are used on most walnut trees
walnuts also produce their own toxin called juglone which is toxic to most animals and also inhibits growth in most plants
I personally seen the proof in 2 parabuthus liosoma juvenile females i bought at the reptile expo a couple years ago. Both born from same brood , both were 3i - 1 was kept on sand and grew up to a normal size at adulthood while the other was kept on walnut shell sub
The 1 kept on the walnut shellvwas almost half the size as the other 1 and also died shortly after reaching adult size
Granted thats just 1 example and in no way makes it a fact but with all the other negative info on it- i know id never risk my scorps using it again

Is there any official confirmation / source for this?

 

[Scorpionluva]

Is there any official confirmation / source for this?

I found alot of info about it just doing a search before and havent looked it up for awhile but to clarify what i previously said. The 2 liosomas i had purchased (1 on sand and 1 on walnut shells ) the 1 on the walnut shells was actually bigger and more lively than the other at 1st and only stayed in the deli i purchased her in until it was time to rehouse both into bigger tanks. By the time i did rehouse both - the other kept on sand was a bit bigger and definitely more active. She lived for several years after adult also and the other (on walnut shells ) sadly didnt live but a month or so after adult and was sluggish most of the time. As i said before thats just 1 example and doesnt mean its a fact but i wasnt willing to risk it with anymore of my specimens either or try any experiments to prove the theory. Hope your female youve kept on it is fine and you prove me wrong but i know theres alot of info out there stating negatively against using it

 

[darkness975]

I found alot of info about it just doing a search before and havent looked it up for awhile but to clarify what i previously said. The 2 liosomas i had purchased (1 on sand and 1 on walnut shells ) the 1 on the walnut shells was actually bigger and more lively than the other at 1st and only stayed in the deli i purchased her in until it was time to rehouse both into bigger tanks. By the time i did rehouse both - the other kept on sand was a bit bigger and definitely more active. She lived for several years after adult also and the other (on walnut shells ) sadly didnt live but a month or so after adult and was sluggish most of the time. As i said before thats just 1 example and doesnt mean its a fact but i wasnt willing to risk it with anymore of my specimens either or try any experiments to prove the theory. Hope your female youve kept on it is fine and you prove me wrong but i know theres alot of info out there stating negatively against using it

Well that's the reason I was asking because it's been about four and a half years now and I haven't noticed any warning signs of anything.

 

[Scorpionluva]

Well that's the reason I was asking because it's been about four and a half years now and I haven't noticed any warning signs of anything.

Since im a computer idiot lol i just did a forum no no and bumped 1 of the old threads posted on here about it being bad for inverts due to the natural insecticides ( my error of saying pesticides previously) produced by walnuts. Theres other threads on here about it too

 

[The Snark]

Is there any official confirmation / source for this?

Juglone from the Black Walnut and other sources is a cytotoxin https://intranet.ssp.ulaval.ca/cgpc/fsss/fichiers/Juglone.pdf and also causes an allelopathic effect when present in the soil. (Similar to pine trees)

 

[Scorpionluva]

Juglone from the Black Walnut and other sources is a cytotoxin https://intranet.ssp.ulaval.ca/cgpc/fsss/fichiers/Juglone.pdf and also causes an allelopathic effect when present in the soil. (Similar to pine trees)

@The Snark to the rescue ! I almost PM'd you since I knew you posted before about juglone being toxic Thanks for the link