PacMan Dies from coconut fiber substrate

[RoachGirlRen]

dtknow, some of the cornuta breeders I know do keep their frogs in hardwood leaf litter over coconut fiber with great success particularly in terms of promoting healthy feeding behavior (which is tricky in that species of horned frog, particularly if wild caught). The coconut fiber is still imperfect, but it does permit the natural burrowing behaviors; I won't argue with what DavidBeard experienced as I've not tried it myself, but I really don't really think the minimal risk of impaction in properly cared for and fed frogs is worth keeping them completely out of their element. They aren't aquatic frogs, and burrowing/hiding are both strong aspects of their behavior as a species. To each their own I suppose, but to me it would be akin to keeping a tree frog in a cage with nothing to climb on or bullfrog without a swimming area.

 

[dtknow]

DB: Not concerned so much of powerfeeding as the housing in as spartan of an enclosure as the organism can be gotten to survive in. RGR is spot on.

I wonder if some mixture of clay and coir would do the trick. You could filter coir through a net to remove the coarse fibers too. Few places out in the wild have soil with the consistency of coir so it isn't very natural in truth. C. cranwelli and ornata are grassland frogs for the most part so providing a compacted substrate of this sort would allow them to dig, but would decrease the amount of sub they'd swallow grabbing food.

 

[Trip59]

After examining the intestine under a dissection microscope, we found 100's (literally) of undigested coconut husk fibers (same as what an "unpeeled" coconut" looks like). They had wound themselves not only through the semi-digested cricket parts, but throughout and inside of the intestine walls, open space, and colon.

Tissues examined under the microscope found fibers actually "imbedded" into the intestine walls themselves.

I realize this thread is a month old, sorry if it's too old to resurrect (new here) but I was wondering, if the cause is longer fibers, what about sifting through a screen, or running through a food processor then sifting? I found this searching for just this sort of thing, got a baby albino pacman tonight and am trying to set up the best possible.

Trip

 

[RoachGirlRen]

It is definitely possible to sift out some of the larger particles manually, though a bit of a pain in the arse. I would strongly suggest, if it is a very young pacman frog (say under 1.5") to ideally feed in a seperate container, and if it will not eat under those conditions, tong feed only - just to err on the side of caution. Pacs are notoriously clumsy and enthusiastic eaters, young animals are also notoriously clumsy eaters, so the two combined often makes for mouthfulls of substrate particularly if free-fed. Note: extremely young frogs who refuse to tong or seperate-container feed can simply be kept on moist paper towel so long as it is cleaned frequently if you are truly concerned about impaction. Indeed many breeders I speak to keep young froglets in such conditions exclusively.

Also remember to keep the temperature and humidity appropriate, as these are two primary causes of impaction even with minimal consumption of substrate. And of course, provide an adequate (and adequately warm) soaking bowl to assist in the passage of bowel movement. I have frequently found that minor constipation in many cold blooded animals, before it becomes a more serious impaction, can be remedied by a bit of physical activity and exposure to warm water. Whenever I am concerned about not seeing feces often enough in fish or frogs, I put them in a bucket of shallow warm water, and almost unfailingly the combination of moving about, warmth, and moisture results in expedient passage of feces.

 

[Dom]

I realize this thread is a month old, sorry if it's too old to resurrect (new here) but I was wondering, if the cause is longer fibers, what about sifting through a screen, or running through a food processor then sifting? I found this searching for just this sort of thing, got a baby albino pacman tonight and am trying to set up the best possible.

Trip

That's exactly what I do. Got myself a little cornuta that didn't poop for the first week and when it did a nice size stick came out.
I've read that the long strands in coco fibre can cause problems so I filter them out.
I use a screen collander (spaghetti strainer) and it only takes a minute to do.

 

[Trip59]

Well, the wife was a good sport about the chick feed/oats/cheerios/etc. for the roach food going through the food processor, wonder if she'll let me do this...

I AM planning to tong feed, I really enjoy feeding all my critters, is a nice relaxing few hours a week (15 scorps, 17 t's, 2 snakes, turtle, rats, beardie...) I just have to get Froggit used to eating from tongs.

Tried crix today, no go, tried a crush-head mealie, didn't like that either (scorps did though) I'm thinking the stress of moving homes has got him a little irregular, he ate in the store the morning I bought him.

Wondering, how do I tell what species?

 

[Ritzman]

Wondering, how do I tell what species?

C. cranwelli has no dots behind there eyes. C. ornata has a black dot behind each of its eyes. That is the fastest and easiest way IMO.

Ornates are mostly greenish reddish. Cranwellis can be camo, albino, brown, or green.

There are no known albino C. ornata available in the pet trade.
You have a cranwelli.

 

[EightLeggedFrea]

If I get a Pacman, I'm going to try moving it to a different cage with some very shallow water in it to feed.

 

[Trip59]

There are no known albino C. ornata available in the pet trade.
You have a cranwelli.

Easiest ID I've had to deal with in a while, thanks!

Trip

 

[CRX]

And this is exactly why I keep my tiger salamander on paper towels.

 

[SandyMuffinCakes94]

I've seen people use different containers to feed in. When I had my cranwelli, it would sometimes eat cocofiber when attacking prey and nothing ever happened.

Thats what i do with my snakes

 

[grymblade]

i just drop w/e im feeding it into the water idk if this is bad or not but theres no substrate in the water as i change/clean it every day. because crickits and roaches cant swin well the frog jsut destroys them b4 they can get out. also i can do the same thing with fish and he just gobbles them up :-D