P irminia eggsac

NMTs

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Hello, sack pullers. I'm looking for advice/ideas to pulling this sack that is 20" down from the lid. I have 20" tongs and long, cooking chopsticks (as distractors to bite), but even with those, both of my hands would have to be in the enclosure with an angry irminia, trying desperately to keep me from getting her sack. All the videos I've watched had females in 8x12s. Thank you for any suggestions you may have.
You're likely going to have to tear the enclosure down to get at her and the sac. It sucks, but still be safer for you and her in the long run. She'll rebuild. Just take everything out, cup her, remove the sac, redo the enclosure, then put her back.

Good luck!
 

l4nsky

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Just going off pictures, if she's in a side burrow from the cork, you'll likely have to take the cork out slowly. That way, you should be able to dig to her sideways and push the loose substrate into the hole left by the cork. With any luck, the substrate will stay compacted, the burrow will stay intact, and you just need to place the cork back in after.
 

IntermittentSygnal

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Do what I did, remove her from the enclosure first. Then you can remove the egg sac.

She will not travel away from the sac making it easier to cup her. Expect multiple strikes at the catch cup. It is doable and better than just using tongs trying to get the sac.

If you try pulling the sac with the tongs she will more than likely follow upwards.

Update:
I just viewed the photos again. Is she inside the cork tube?
The cork is cut open in the back. She's never used it, except an occasional climb, and always acted fossorial. She was like that in the temp enclosure I bought her in and did the same thing in her permanent enclosure and also with her "birthing chamber".

@l4nsky @NMTs She has webbed everything to that cork. The leaves that are the roof of her old cave, she pulled down there and webbed down thoroughly. Those leaves are glued to the cork. She's webbed leaves that are glued to the back of the cork to the dirt curtain of her burrow/lair she is in now with the sack. Moving the cork will pull up the entire top layer of floor, including the top of her current lair. Assuming here I'll have to just pull the cork back and try to get a large catch cup in there to secure the entire area she's in. She also has 2 top exit spots from the burrow.
 
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Arachnophobphile

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The cork is cut open in the back. She's never used it, except an occasional climb, and always acted fossorial. She was like that in the temp enclosure I bought her in and did the same thing in her permanent enclosure and also with her "birthing chamber".
Is it possible to remove the cork to expose her and the egg sac?

If it is just pull the whole cork tube out to cup her.

I got lucky with mine. She decided to have egg sac under a small piece of corkbark I had in there. She left her cork tube so then I could just remove it.

You're working in a bigger enclosure than what mine is in and that might work for you instead of against you.
 

IntermittentSygnal

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Is it possible to remove the cork to expose her and the egg sac?

If it is just pull the whole cork tube out to cup her.

I got lucky with mine. She decided to have egg sac under a small piece of corkbark I had in there. She left her cork tube so then I could just remove it.

You're working in a bigger enclosure than what mine is in and that might work for you instead of against you.
I updated the post above to not have multiple posts, but eveything is webbed to that cork, including the top of her current burrow.
 

cold blood

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Hello, sack pullers. I'm looking for advice/ideas to pulling this sack that is 20" down from the lid. I have 20" tongs and long, cooking chopsticks (as distractors to bite), but even with those, both of my hands would have to be in the enclosure with an angry irminia, trying desperately to keep me from getting her sack. All the videos I've watched had females in 8x12s. Thank you for any suggestions you may have.
It's pretty safe....there is pretty much no chance the t will leave that sac and bolt....she will most likely grip that sac all the way to the lid....I don't try to separate mom from the sac....I grab the sac and pull it out with her attached and separate her from the sac by pinching her off at the lid.
 

NMTs

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It appears this decision is now out of my hands. She is opening the sack now.
Well, you're still going to have to get her out of there to catch all the slings. It sounds like it'll be a challenge, but keeping as much of the burrow intact as possible when you open it up will hopefully help contain them. I'd try to take out all the cork/plants/etc, plug up all but the main entrance to the burrow with substrate, then start removing layers around the main entrance, slowly making the opening big enough to have room to guide the female out with a paintbrush where you can catch her. Good luck!
 

IntermittentSygnal

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Mom ended up webbing over her sack again that day. I’m guessing she knew something was wrong. I saw mom irminia out this morning and her sac in the water dish. I knew old man was a bit long in the tooth, but conditioned them both for 2 weeks and he was tippy tapping the entire time. I gave him a breeding arena to go to her when he was ready (monitored by motion sensing camera). I witnessed two insertions. Unexpectedly crestfallen, but have learned some valuable lessons.
IMG_4616.jpeg
 

l4nsky

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The eggsack was fertile, you can see an EWL trapped under the egg's outer casing in the bottom center egg outside the eggsack. The male did his job. The issue here appears to be either contamination of the eggsack during construction or the female's hide not having the proper parameters to bring an eggsack full term.
 

NMTs

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Sorry, that's unfortunate. It seems like irminia males are plentiful, though, so you'll likely be able to give it another shot soon.
 

IntermittentSygnal

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The eggsack was fertile, you can see an EWL trapped under the egg's outer casing in the bottom center egg outside the eggsack. The male did his job. The issue here appears to be either contamination of the eggsack during construction or the female's hide not having the proper parameters to bring an eggsack full term.
I do see the one you are talking about there. What could I have done better if the hide were the problem? Did I let it get too dry? When I pulled open the sac to look for survivors, the center was solid and dry. Also, could I have saved that little one in an incubator?
 
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l4nsky

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I do see the one you are talking about there. What could I have done better if the hide were the problem? Did I let it get too dry? When I pulled open the sac to look for survivors, the center was solid and dry.
There really isn't a way for me to determine what, if anything, you could have done better in the situation. There are too many unknown variables here for me to have confidence in an answer. The only certainty is that the male was still viable and did his job. Everything done to get her paired worked, you just need to experiment with her setup should you decide to try again :) .

We all stumble at first. My first eggsack was eaten on day two, my second eggsack saw a 50% mortality rate, my third eggsack saw a 99.5% mortality rate, but my fourth was successful.

Also, could I have saved that little one in an incubator?
Not likely, unless you're a skilled enough surgeon to peel a grape with tweezers. The EWL is basically stuck in its molt.
 

IntermittentSygnal

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There really isn't a way for me to determine what, if anything, you could have done better in the situation. There are too many unknown variables here for me to have confidence in an answer. The only certainty is that the male was still viable and did his job. Everything done to get her paired worked, you just need to experiment with her setup should you decide to try again :) .

We all stumble at first. My first eggsack was eaten on day two, my second eggsack saw a 50% mortality rate, my third eggsack saw a 99.5% mortality rate, but my fourth was successful.


Not likely, unless you're a skilled enough surgeon to peel a grape with tweezers. The EWL is basically stuck in its molt.
I understand it’s really impossible to say without seeing it first hand, and also knowing what happened over the month+ timeframe. I’m going to postulate lack of soil moisture/insufficient humidity as at least partial culprit based on the dry, hard, stuck together center of the sack and the EWL stuck in its molt. She had the sack fully covered, and that looks like she opened it and tossed it in the pond. I appreciate your insight and also your positivity even in difficult situations.
 

TheraMygale

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I understand it’s really impossible to say without seeing it first hand, and also knowing what happened over the month+ timeframe. I’m going to postulate lack of soil moisture/insufficient humidity as at least partial culprit based on the dry, hard, stuck together center of the sack and the EWL stuck in its molt. She had the sack fully covered, and that looks like she opened it and tossed it in the pond. I appreciate your insight and also your positivity even in difficult situations.
Im sorry things did not work out the way you wished.

Keep going at it. I am sure people who breed hundreds, get a sour batch sometimes.

Its a beautiful learning experience.
 

cold blood

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I do see the one you are talking about there. What could I have done better if the hide were the problem? Did I let it get too dry? When I pulled open the sac to look for survivors, the center was solid and dry. Also, could I have saved that little one in an incubator?
You could have pulled the sac early....this is the simple solution many breeders, myself included, take as a result of exactly this kind of situation.
 

TheraMygale

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You could have pulled the sac early....this is the simple solution many breeders, myself included, take as a result of exactly this kind of situation.
I am so going to consider this if i ever make it to my goal to breed just once.

I always felt sac pulling was ideal in captivity, species considered.

I dont think i will get to breed though. Its just not going to happen.

I envy all who have means and connections to experience this.

I breed saturniids and know the work and effort it takes.

I want to complete the full circle of my lifes passion.

I fear i just don’t have enough connections and friends in the spider world to contribute my gift. I know im a good keeper.

Ouf, that was pretty egoistical of me. Made this about myself ew.

I look forward to hearing about your futur pairings, @intermittentsignal
 
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