owning a rattlesnake

Crotalus

Arachnoking
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As for them not being more or less dangerous, you need to look at each individual species and it's venom composition - there are so many species of Crotalus and the anti-venom CroFab is used in all envenomations - designed to work for all in the genus, so the effect is different for different species. And venom yield as well.
Hmm not exactly, the southamericans are usually treated with Butantan Soro Anticrotalico and theres also a mexican serum, Antivipmyn, that suppose to be good for mostly NA species.
For northamerican species, most are still treated with Crofab.
 

ScorpDemon

ArachnoScorpion
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You can ask most "hot" keepers and they (myself included) will tell you the same thing....There is no such thing as a "beginner" hot. It is far better to find whatever species you are interested in and do the neccessary research to keep that particular snake. A copperhead wont prepare you for anything really.

I have to agree 100% with that. The only plus to having a copperhead, besides the fact that they are beautiful snakes, is that if you do get bitten, the venom isn't as bad as others would be. My southern copperhead is as docile as a cornsnake.
My first hot was a rattler, Crotalus horridus. I would reccomend you work with someone who either has hots, or has had hots before for a while to learn at least the basics of dealing with hots before you get one.
 

Ewok

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In Fl, to get a license for hots, you have to do an internship with an already licensed hot keeper, and log a thousand hours, but I could be wrong, your state or country might have something similar though.
 
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Beardo

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Wow...rear-fanged Coral Snakes and Pennsylvania the only place where you can keep hots? This guy sure knows his stuff!
 

green_bottle_04

Arachnobaron
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:wall:

Yes, let's mutilate an animal we're not otherwise competent enough to keep just so we can feel awesome. Nevermind that it's considered an act of cruelty and ILLEGAL if anyone besides a vet performs it--and it's illegal even for vets to do in the UK, and many USA vets will refuse to do it. And that's the LEAST of the problems.

Please do some research before advocating something that irresponsible.

http://www.snakegetters.com/demo/vet/venomoid-faq.html
i have done the research as i own 2 venomoid snakes that were rescues. first off..."considered an act of cruelty" that is most definately your opinion..so please dont try to substitute it as fact. many people would argue that spaying/neutering dogs and cats is cruelty...do you agree with that too?

secondly...."ILLEGAL if anyone besides a vet performs it" that is completely not true. again, another one of your opinions you try to pass off as fact. is it smart to have someone other than a vet do it....no of course not. but different states have different laws..thats what makes this country great. cool huh? saying that "many us vets wont do it" is again leading down the wrong path. its true that alot of them wont. but not for the one and only reason you are trying to highlight, that its cruelty. most of the ones who wont do it simply dont feel comfortabe working with a venomous snake, others simply dont know how (they have just never studied it). so...take some of your own advice...do a little research before posting.

do i completely agree with venomoid snakes...no. as i said the venomoids i have were rescues. ive had tons of hot snakes and with those two exceptions they still very much had their venom glands and ducts. but...if someone is determined to own a hot and are inexperienced (and i know you are going to say "well they just shouldnt own one" thats true...but guess what...they are going to get one anyway) so you might as well tell them how to do it and keep themselves alive.
 

Hedorah99

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Wow...rear-fanged Coral Snakes and Pennsylvania the only place where you can keep hots? This guy sure knows his stuff!
Sorry i got the one about the corals wrong. And I meant to say PA is the only place where i know there is no license needed, its kinda free for all as far as I know. Why don't you try and contribute something instead. Why, I feel someone had this conversation with me recently :D.
 
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mindlessvw

Arachnobaron
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i don't live in PA but i think the law is that you don't need a license but you can't keep native species...so its not necessarily a free for all but not highly regulated...i think...don't quote me
 

Mushroom Spore

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i have done the research as i own 2 venomoid snakes that were rescues. first off..."considered an act of cruelty" that is most definately your opinion..so please dont try to substitute it as fact. many people would argue that spaying/neutering dogs and cats is cruelty...do you agree with that too?
Did you actually read what I posted? It is illegal in the UK and many US vets will refuse to do it.

Furthermore, comparing it to spaying/neutering is downright moronic.

"Q. Isn't the venomoid operation just like spaying or neutering?
A. No. Spaying and neutering has actual health benefits to many animals, and it also addresses humane concerns about unwanted offspring being born that cannot be cared for. No veterinarian will refuse to perform this kind of operation, and some even volunteer their time to do this service at animal shelters. There are no ethical questions in the veterinary profession about spaying and neutering because it helps the animals. Also, not very many people are operating on dogs in their own garage with a razor blade after making sure they are too cold to struggle. That really is happening to snakes, and unfortunately nobody seems to care. It is much harder to get animal cruelty laws enforced when the victim is a reptile and not a cute furry animal. Dog breeders who are doing similar things to the animals they sell have gotten into a lot of trouble with the law."

http://www.snakegetters.com/demo/vet/venomoids1.html
"Some apologists have compared the procedure to spaying or neutering, but it is not comparable. Neutering can have significant health and longevity benefits to the mammalian patient as well as addressing humane concerns about the birth of more animals which may not recieve adequate care. No veterinarian will refuse to do a spay or a neuter, and some volunteer their time at humane shelters to do this good service for patients who do not have paying owners. Many veterinarians will refuse to perform cosmetic or owner-benefit only procedures such as declawing, debarking or decorative ear piercing. The ethics of the former procedure are well accepted; the ethics of the latter type of procedure are considered highly questionable in the veterinary profession."

secondly...."ILLEGAL if anyone besides a vet performs it" that is completely not true.
Try again.

"Q. Is the venomoid operation legal?
A. Not in Europe, where they have stricter laws about animal welfare. It is still legal in the US for a licensed veterinarian to do elective non patient benefit procedures like tooth and claw removal on wild animals, or venomoid surgery, though many veterinarians will refuse to do this to an animal. It is not legal for people who are not veterinarians to perform this surgery, especially for profit. Some states allow farmers to perform simple procedures on their own livestock if it is done humanely. Venomoiders who are making money performing these operations do not fall into this legal category and are breaking the law. They are practicing veterinary medicine without a license and the drugs they use are illegal for non veterinarians to possess. There are some amateur venomoiders who do not use any drugs, relying on keeping the snakes too cold to struggle when they start cutting. This is also illegal because doing surgery on a conscious, feeling patient is extreme animal cruelty. Contact your state regulatory authorities to find out what the exact laws are in your area, or ask your veterinarian."

so...take some of your own advice...do a little research before posting.
You're adorable.
 

Nich

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i have done the research as i own 2 venomoid snakes that were rescues. first off..."considered an act of cruelty" that is most definately your opinion
Your way off base. Goto any "hot" site and say that....you would read a resounding "YES IT IS".
 

Midnightrdr456

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also venemoids are DANGEROUS if not done properly they can still give out venom.

Also Virginia you dont need a liscense and Im pretty sure other states too, there is a site that lists them all, im running late right now but later ill try and find it/post it for you.

I really recommend working with an experienced hot keeper, im looking into hots myself, and I hav spent about a month now hands on with a friend that has been keeping hots for 10-11 years now. After a month of maintaining the cages and transporting and such, I still feel I am nowhere near ready to have my own.
 

mindlessvw

Arachnobaron
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that would be awesome if you could get the list together...that might shed some light on which states it is/is not ok...although it always has to be remembered that state and county law can differ...look at austin compared to other texas cities...
 

Ewok

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whats it like working with hots as a novice? I highly doubt I ever will work with them. just working around tarantulas gave me sweaty hands sometimes{D . especially that G.rosa:D I can't imagine how many buckets of water I would sweat working around a venomous snake haha.
 

blacktara

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Clarification

"and the anti-venom CroFab is used in all envenomations "

Not true at all. Cro-Fab has at least some effectiveness against all North American crotalid venoms, but

1.It does not have to be given for all bites. Somewhere between a third and a half of NA crotalid bites seen in American ER's turn out to be dry bites
2.It will not effect for coral snake envenomations
3.I do not know how effective (if at all) it is against the neurotoxic component of Mojave rattler venom
 

Sheri

Arachnoking
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Well, if it was a dry bite then there was no envenomation. Right? ;)


And as Lelle said, there was Crotalus species that have other anti-venoms made for them in other parts of the Americas.

I was thinking of Crotalus in North America when I wrote that. As for corral snakes - well - they are neither rattlesnakes nor a member of the genus Crotalus. :)


Nice to see you around here again though!
 

ShadowBlade

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Man, I don't know if anyone else here was like me, but when I was young on the farm, I knew what the poisonous snakes looked like, but I didn't really respect them like I should of. Young copperheads I used to mess around with all the time, never got close to being bit. (I wouldn't really abuse them or anything though).

Adults you hardly see for more then a few seconds, unless you find them while you're mowing the grass.

But I still won't trust myself owning a hot till I'm plenty older with many years of snake experience, I've seen mad rattlers, it ain't fun.


-Sean
 
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