Over-estimating size of largest species.

[Lorum]

Whatever efforts you pursue, your T.Blondi may or may not grow to 12 inches, whatever husbandry method's you attempt, because it grows to it's natural size in it's own environment and it's own geography. It lives, feeds and grows in it's own natural state, and will not reach it's potential length in captivity, because whatever a tarantular keeper does, it contains the species away from of it's normal environment an often inhibits it's growth.

I understand your point, but, how can you be so sure about that? I mean, tarantulas in captivity often live longer than in their natural habitats. Other arthropods, under specific circumstances can grow more than in their natural habitats.

So, I believe tarantulas can grow more than in their natural habitats, if they are kept under the right conditions (just if you wonder, I don't know what such conditions are; but experiments can be done).

 

[rustym3talh3ad]

I am glad you are addressing the topic of size, to bring some reality into the tarantula world. However, please associate your knowledge and resulting competencies with those measurements. People purchase a sturgeon based upon statistical size and maintain it, but it will never grow to it's potential in a fish tank. Whatever efforts you pursue, your T.Blondi may or may not grow to 12 inches, whatever husbandry method's you attempt, because it grows to it's natural size in it's own environment and it's own geography. It lives, feeds and grows in it's own natural state, and will not reach it's potential length in captivity, because whatever a tarantular keeper does, it contains the species away from of it's normal environment an often inhibits it's growth.

I have a problem with this whole thought process. What I am reading is "an animal will only get as big as the enclosure you put it in" which frankly is a huge load of pooey! An animal whether it be a Fish, Croc, huge snake or Tiny tarantula is going to get as big as its supposed to get. There are factors which will inhibit growth and kill it early or cause such malformations that its body is "Stunted". But all that aside, if a person does what they are supposed to do and house an animal in a large enough enclosure to "Properly" grow then I see no reason how you could say they wont due to captivity. We have our T. blondi in a 40 Breeder with 12" of substrate and a cage design to mimic her natural environment. You mean to tell me that with a set up like that and proper food the likely hood of her reaching the "recorded" size of 11-12" is very poor? I think not.

 

[MaximusMeridus]

Firstly let us clarify a few things.

Yes it is common to overstate the size of their species, but everyone has a different perception of size.

Proportional
If you are 7 foot your spider is going to look comparitively smaller than someone who is only 5.

Passion & Pride
If you are crazy about your T, you are incredibly proud of it's development. It is always the case with your own child too, i.e. my child is super intelligent is something I hear endlessly from parents. Intelligence is relative so who are we to disagree.

Prowess
We like to show the community how well we have done to raise our Ts and what a great collection we have. We feel passionate about them and want others to aswell! No less innocent than your cat bringing home a mouse or a worm. Let people do it, why not, it doesn't hurt anyone. It's good for them! If they exaggerate a tad, well again science is all relative anyway!

Detail
We forget that they bigger this beautiful animal is, the more detail you can see and so can everyone else. Why is it ok to talk about coloyr and not size? It's the same thing! Women do it. I love to see my giant T loud and proud, I can look at her for hours, such detail, eyes, striations etc. It makes you feel more in touch with them. You never lose that awe feeling, I can think of no animal on earth that I can look at for hours, although like Tigers, we want to cuddle them, this is different, this is awe at such a design, it is entirely unique and hard to relate to. It's anatomy fascinates us.

I never ever handle them, of which I personally disagree but they are in their burrow much like a their habitat and I only see them every now and again. It's an awesome sight and yes she only 5 years at 10.5" and what a sight. My last was 11" female too but much older and you could see the bold bulkier look in her chitin, what a beauty, so graceful, poor thing died. I sold her onto a private collector for after being offered $2100 was too good to resist, now that is far far more than I paid but he is very proud of it and will most likely go on to educate people about the value of our ever so quickly dwindling rainforests.

Note: I do not condone the trade mounted species as I believe it encourages amoral collectors to kill and mount them for profit. This is tremendously damaging to the world of conservation and sends the wrong message that they are collectables and not animals.

As far as photos, there are plenty of examples on the forum without the need to post another thread. Just search for it. Fran, Myself and Robc I believe have a few good ones, but there is nothing like seeing them in real life and that is where our excitement lies.

Conclusion
Phallic issues have anything to do with it, it's a pride and passion is good for the hobby, if mine is bigger than yours, its nothing personal

 

[Nhanduchromatus]

Note: I do not condone the trade mounted species as I believe it encourages amoral collectors to kill and mount them for profit. This is tremendously damaging to the world of conservation and sends the wrong message that they are collectables and not animals.

My mounted specimen was very much alive with me for several years and died of an infection due to a mouse bite (why I don't feed mice anymore). I cleaned, stuffed, and dried it myself.

As far as photos, there are plenty of examples on the forum without the need to post another thread. Just search for it. Fran, Myself and Robc I believe have a few good ones, but there is nothing like seeing them in real life and that is where our excitement lies.

I would like to see some of the other giants besides T. blondi. I have now seen some good shots of T. blondi from yourself, Fran and Rob R.I.P. to these spiders that are no longer with us. But there are many claims as well of 11" spiders that always seem to measure 10", which is friggin giant in my books but why make a 10" into an 11" when it is not. I'll certainly post clear pics of my L. klugi and my L. parahybanas when they get big (klugi is currently subadult 6" male, parahybanas are 2-3").I want to see Lasiodora, Pamphobeteus, Xenesthis, Phormictopus, Acanthoscurria, Grammostola and Nhandu.


Conclusion
Phallic issues have anything to do with it, it's a pride and passion is good for the hobby, if mine is bigger than yours, its nothing personal

Pride and passion aside, why have so many disappointed people when their blondi or parahybana only achieves 7-9" mature. Only a fraction of a % will ever break the 10" mark and even fewer will hit 11". I routinely see size ranges posted of 10-12" for blondi, why not 7-10" with 11" outliers? Wild claims of 13" blondi and 12" parahybana do nothing to further the hobby.

 

[MaximusMeridus]

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=154567

There are many other photos on this forum if you search with the right keywords.

I think it is a matter of hunting the community for one, you are not going to grow the larger specimens unless you know where they came from like any animal/plant. It takes years of patience and I suspect eventually selective breeding will lead to much larger T's in captivity than in the wild just as we have achieved with dogs. We need a greater gene-pool and responsible breeders otherwise they will become smaller!

I have not seen any pictures of giant spiders yet. Pride and passion aside, why have so many disappointed people when their blondi or parahybana only achieves 7-9" mature. Only a percentage of a % will ever break the 10" mark and even fewer will hit 11".

 

[MaximusMeridus]

Actually I see a lot of owners posting 7-9 inches. Do a search on google or this forum, you will be quite surprised. But statistically they are more likely to post if they have something to rave about. 13 or 12, that is certainly not a common post. 11 isn't either, but 10 is, because quite frankly most T.blondis will reach 10 at some point in their 12-15 year life span with an adequate diet/setup.

Most set-ups as not adequate and provide direct heat which cause desiccation. T's need ambient heat, they are not lizards. Desiccation will stump growth and cause a variety of issues when the spider needs humidity, how can it with direct heat. Sit next to a radiator in a humid room, you will soon shrivel up.

One of the many factors involved with growth in an animal that is somewhat hydraulic. You will find the more experience/dedicated owners who give their Ts larger tanks with a greater range of Temp/humid and quality nutrition will prosper and grow to be large if not 10".

Pride and passion aside, why have so many disappointed people when their blondi or parahybana only achieves 7-9" mature. Only a fraction of a % will ever break the 10" mark and even fewer will hit 11". I routinely see size ranges posted of 10-12" for blondi, why not 7-10" with 11" outliers? Wild claims of 13" blondi and 12" parahybana do nothing to further the hobby.

 

[Nhanduchromatus]

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=154567

There are many other photos on this forum if you search with the right keywords.

I think it is a matter of hunting the community for one, you are not going to grow the larger specimens unless you know where they came from like any animal/plant. It takes years of patience and I suspect eventually selective breeding will lead to much larger T's in captivity than in the wild just as we have achieved with dogs. We need a greater gene-pool and responsible breeders otherwise they will become smaller!

Sorry, I had forgotten about the three 11" giants, I have since edited my original post.

My parahybana specimens are all siblings from a pair of approx 9" parents. I already have one that is about 30% larger at each instar than the others. The klugi seems pretty standard 6", have seen many other 6" subadult klugi.....likely 2 molt to maturity with 8" final measurement likely.

I whole heartedly agree though. In the wild there are so many factors that determine who mates with who. Larger specimens may have a better survival chance in the wild where in captivity survival is up to the keeper's ability for the most part. In the wild, large females may only mate with very large males, in captivity a 6" mature female LP may be mated with a 7" male, producing mostly small offspring that flood the market.
We do need to be careful to not introduce inferior spiders into the gene pool lest all the future CB blondi and parahybana rarely reach 8"

 

[Venom]

Everyone reading this thread should watch the following video of RobC's female T.blondi "Zilla." If that's not at least 11" then I don't know what is.

Philth has one of equal size.

So does Fran.

They don't always get this big, but they certainly can.

[YOUTUBE]aNHK565cVe8[/YOUTUBE]

 

[MadTitan]

And this brings up another point. I have a Lasiodora parahybana female approaching 9 inches. I've had her for about 3 years and she was just slightly over 8 inches when I purchased her. She usually molts about every six months. So far that's 5 molts in three years to gain less than an inch. Those big T's grow slowly.

That is totally unlike the growth I've noticed on my Lp. I got her at around 3/4" and she grew to 6" in the first year. Then she slowed down to 1 molt a year and put on about 1" per molt. I measured her against the glass in segments (she wasn't stretched out) She has a body length of 3 7/8" and legs of about 3 1/4". Don't add those together like I did and think I have a 10" spider. She's closer to 8.5 diagonally, the reason being, her legs aren't attached to her spinnerets or her fangs! :wall:

I wonder if her molt timing and sizes will change now that she's close your T's size. Every 6 months seems really fast to me at that size.

 

[nhaverland413]

What about Phlogius sp. "aussie goliath"? Aren't they flaunted as growing to large sizes?