Opinions vs Pokies

[Illuminati]

This is just for friendly opinions and explanations first off and I am not disagreeing with anyone as I don't believe this is how it works for most people.
When I started about a year ago with T's (I had grown up around them but I mean as in OWNING my own, on my own. I got my first at 22.) I was given an N. chromatus and told it was a good beginner T. I learned quickly this was not the case, while beautiful that T hates me with every fiber of its being and will teleport and flick hairs when ever it can. I learned how to work around her and respect her space and I do not what so ever hold ANY T unless completely needed for a specific reason. I never get comfortable and stop paying attention and I make sure to always be on top of what ever reflexes I have when working any where she might be able to get at me.
Here recently I got a P. Metallica - Gorgeous and I wouldn't have it any other way. She is absolutely beautiful and amazing and I respect her completely. I have her enclosure locked at all times and only work in it when water or food is needed and that is done quickly and with my full attention. I have seen lots of people on both sides of the fence lately - those against it completely and those that think it's the only way to learn. While I don't fit anywhere on either side I do believe that it takes a certain KIND of person to get one as not a first tarantula of course but with in the first few years of keeping. I do believe that some people understand the dangers and pay attention and could handle a T like a Pokie sooner than other people and I know there are some people that shouldn't ever keep OW at all because they are irresponsible.
My point is basically I always seem to see two sides of the coin when I feel some one like... me that knows the dangers, takes precautions (even though I know they are unpredictable, I take every precaution I can) and respects the T and its space, shouldn't be put in an area where people think it is "irresponsible" and look down on me because I chose to get something like this early than some people would like to see. I definitely see both sides but I feel like some people look down on me because I don't have years of roots in the hobby on my own yet and those that think it's absolutely great. I just wanted to share my view and see what people thought.

 

[BrettG]

People make it too big of an issue,it all depends on what you want to start with,and how responsible you are,period.Poec's for the most part,are not nearly as bad as some people think.I personally think there are NW sp that are far worse speed and attitude wise.The venom factor is much worse with Poec's,but it is a risk any keeper takes.I think Poec slings make great first OW's,as you can get used to its speed as it grows.

 

[Poec54]

I personally think there are NW sp that are far worse speed and attitude wise.The venom factor is much worse with Poec's,but it is a risk any keeper takes.

Hence all the advice not to get one until you've gotten used to slower, less defensive, less potent T's. It's not just the keeper taking 'the risk' but the people they live with, and potentially the hobby in general if there's a high-profile bite (like a child or someone with a medical condition). Some people's skills and confidence are up to the task sooner than others. In general, Poecs spiders you work your way up to in stages. There will always be exceptions, but the average newbie isn't able to deal with what a long-legged arboreal is capable of, and that includes Psalmopoeus. Reading about it is one thing, living it is another. Some Poecs are calmer than others, but don't get lulled into thinking they're a breeze and any T owner can work with any of them. There's long-term T owners that don't think they're a good fit for them, and I respect that. In fact I respect that much more than someone who pushes their luck and gets one before they have enough experience. That goes for any spider, or any animal. I'd like to think T owners are a responsible group, but then I see pictures of people handling species that should not be held, and for what? I don't think the hobby is based on how much you can get away with. We have an uphill battle with our image as it is.

 

[BrettG]

IMHO if you are worried about being bitten by one then you should not own one(again IMHO) The safety and welfare of yourself and others is of utmost importance,and for SOME people it just may not be worth it(having small kids,siblings,roomies,etc)

 

[Illuminati]

Hence all the advice not to get one until you've gotten used to slower, less defensive, less potent T's. It's not just the keeper taking 'the risk' but the people they live with, and potentially the hobby in general if there's a high-profile bite (like a child or someone with a medical condition). Some people's skills and confidence are up to the task sooner than others. In general, Poecs spiders you work your way up to in stages. There will always be exceptions, but the average newbie isn't able to deal with what a long-legged arboreal is capable of, and that includes Psalmopoeus. Reading about it is one thing, living it is another. Some Poecs are calmer than others, but don't get lulled into thinking they're a breeze and any T owner can work with any of them. There's long-term T owners that don't think they're a good fit for them, and I respect that. In fact I respect that much more than someone who pushes their luck and gets one before they have enough experience. That goes for any spider, or any animal. I'd like to think T owners are a responsible group, but then I see pictures of people handling species that should not be held, and for what? I don't think the hobby is based on how much you can get away with. We have an uphill battle with our image as it is.

I absolutely agree with this, I do not believe OW in general are good for some people ever, but I do think there are some people that are ready before others to keep them as well. One thing I have seen is people that get comfortable are something that actually scare me - I have worked with reptiles for a long time and getting comfortable with something is when you screw up. Like I said in general I agree with the mentality that T's shouldn't be held due to risks to you, the animal and really whats the point in removing it from its home because you want to hold it? To me unless its needed for maintenance I believe T's should be a look at only pet. I was actually hoping you Poec54 would respond not for any other reason than by reading your posts in general I usually agree and respect your opinions. You seem very knowledgeable and I like talking to people like that.
As for responsibility in the hobby, I like to think that the majority do try their hardest to be responsible but with any hobby you have those people who will push and troll and be completely stupid about it. It's unfortunate but I think those people in general are in every hobby :/

I agree that some people think they are way worse then they are but those people are probably not comfortable with them in general. I would rather people not be comfortable in owning them, than a whole bunch of people underestimating them and getting hurt because they don't think it's a big deal. It is a definitely a responsibility someone needs to be prepared for.

---------- Post added 04-17-2013 at 09:20 PM ----------

IMHO if you are worried about being bitten by one then you should not own one(again IMHO) The safety and welfare of yourself and others is of utmost importance,and for SOME people it just may not be worth it(having small kids,siblings,roomies,etc)

I also agree with this, while you should be completely aware you can be bitten if you are scared of it you are more likely to screw up IMO. I put the safety and welfare of all others before anything, which is why my critters are all either harmless or locked up if they can do harm like my T's. I also don't have kids or anyone that lives with me other than my bf who is also aware of exactly what can happen.

 

[spiderengineer]

its up to the owner in the end and the risk of being bitten is just that its a risk you are taken and if you get bitten the you have no one to blame but yourself. I will add though that their is no benefit for the T being held if anything it will stress them, because your essential taking them out of their home. T's are not say like dog were they need affection and physical contact with their owners. in fact T's are one of those pets were less interaction is better for them.

 

[Poec54]

1) I absolutely agree with this, I do not believe OW in general are good for some people ever, but I do think there are some people that are ready before others to keep them as well.
2) One thing Like I said in general I agree with the mentality that T's shouldn't be held due to risks to you, the animal and really whats the point in removing it from its home because you want to hold it? I believe T's should be a look at only pet.
3) I was actually hoping you Poec54 would respond not for any other reason than by reading your posts in general I usually agree and respect your opinions. You seem very knowledgeable and I like talking to people like that.
4) As for responsibility in the hobby, I like to think that the majority do try their hardest to be responsible but with any hobby you have those people who will push and troll and be completely stupid about it. It's unfortunate but I think those people in general are in every hobby :/
5) I also agree with this, while you should be completely aware you can be bitten if you are scared of it you are more likely to screw up IMO. I put the safety and welfare of all others before anything, which is why my critters are all either harmless or locked up if they can do harm like my T's. I also don't have kids or anyone that lives with me other than my bf who is also aware of exactly what can happen.

1) You can have a great collection of beautiful spiders, and they can all be docile species. There are so many to choose from these days. Some people are not comfortable with fast/defensive spiders and there's nothing wrong with that.

2) I also don't understand the overwhelming desire to hold an invertebrate with a miniscule brain and huge fangs. I need my fingers.

3) I got my first T 40 years ago and have had many species, and met many collectors and dealers. A lot of good people in this hobby. We are fortunate to be able to have such wonderful animals in our homes, from remote locations all over the world. It's taken the efforts of thousands of people for that to happen. To them, I owe many thanks.

4 and 5) Every animal hobby has a small percentage that think nothing will happen to them, and want to prove that to others. I used to have a large cobra collection, and knew a few people that took unecessary risks. One guy had a photo album: there was pics of him sitting in a chair with a hooded cobra in his lap, next page was him in a hospital bed, next page was him free-handling a rattlesnake, following page was another hospital shot. 8 bites in all. He was proud of it. No surprise that there's been a lot of regulations since then in some states (like Florida) severely restricting the ownership of venomous snakes. All it took was a few careless handlers and show offs to ruin it for everybody. Those individuals assumed it was 'their risk' only, but it doesn't happen in a vacuum. A whole hobby and thousands of people can be effected, people's livlihoods. Lessons to be learned there with spiders. I want to see this hobby going strong for many decades in the future, without governmental interference. Some species may be extinct in the wild and hobbyists may be the only ones with these animals. Please be responsible, there's a lot at stake.

 

[Formerphobe]

1) You can have a great collection of beautiful spiders, and they can all be docile species. There are so many to choose from these days. Some people are not comfortable with fast/defensive spiders and there's nothing wrong with that.

2) I also don't understand the overwhelming desire to hold an invertebrate with a miniscule brain and huge fangs. I need my fingers.

3) I got my first T 40 years ago and have had many species, and met many collectors and dealers. A lot of good people in this hobby. We are fortunate to be able to have such wonderful animals in our homes, from remote locations all over the world. It's taken the efforts of thousands of people for that to happen. To them, I owe many thanks.

4 and 5) Every animal hobby has a small percentage that think nothing will happen to them, and want to prove that to others. I used to have a large cobra collection, and knew a few people that took unecessary risks. One guy had a photo album: there was pics of him sitting in a chair with a hooded cobra in his lap, next page was him in a hospital bed, next page was him free-handling a rattlesnake, following page was another hospital shot. 8 bites in all. He was proud of it. No surprise that there's been a lot of regulations since then in some states (like Florida) severely restricting the ownership of venomous snakes. All it took was a few careless handlers and show offs to ruin it for everybody. Those individuals assumed it was 'their risk' only, but it doesn't happen in a vacuum. A whole hobby and thousands of people can be effected, people's livlihoods. Lessons to be learned there with spiders. I want to see this hobby going strong for many decades in the future, without governmental interference. Some species may be extinct in the wild and hobbyists may be the only ones with these animals. Please be responsible, there's a lot at stake.

Oh, well said!
I read a recent post where an individual was almost bragging about having been bitten by several notoriously docile species. There is absolutely no room for stupid in this hobby. Any publicized negative reports will be a detriment to us all. "If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough" only applies to a degree since "dumb" could potentially affect all of us.
Please be responsible, there's a lot at stake.
My new mantra.

 

[BaddestRuffest]

I agree with op in that some people feel confident early on and keep OW and fast defensive species and have no issue with them at all mainly because I am one of those people. I have only been in the hobby less than 3 months and I own 2 obt's a P.muticus, 2 P.regalis and a few other "experienced owners only" species. I always show the greatest respect and take all precautions possible as well as keeping my t's on shelves 7 feet up in a room that locks from the inside for when im in there. I don't handle unless necessary or by accident during rehoming except my G.rosea and she won't let me away without holding her which alot of you may feel is BS but as soon as I open her enclosure she walks to where I am and climbs her enclosure but then she won't move until I put my hand out to her so she can climb on me. It seems strange to me also but she seems to "enjoy" me stroking her and pushes herself up to make me touch her and extends her spinnerettes out to touch me. I do agree 100% though that people acting irresponsibly can seriously harm the hobby and may lead to inverts being made illegal.

 

[Formerphobe]

It seems strange to me also but she seems to "enjoy" me stroking her and pushes herself up to make me touch her and extends her spinnerettes out to touch me.

She's probably not enjoying it. Raising the abdomen and pushing against offending items is a means of distributing urticating hairs. It's a "Go Away" gesture.

 

[Poec54]

I have only been in the hobby less than 3 months and I own 2 obt's a P.muticus, 2 P.regalis and a few other "experienced owners only" species.

You're jumping into the fiesty ones early, but you're being smart about, which is good. Some people are ready for them early on, most aren't. I do like you taste in spiders. Remember though, in 3 months you haven't nearly seen what these animals are capable of, so don't let yourself get complacent. Good luck.

 

[Cydaea]

I think with enough research and preparation, any T can be a good first T. Just make sure you know what you're getting into and take the necessary precautions. If you understand and accept that it's an eyes only T, and more caution is needed than with most other species, you're good.

Most new T owners have certain expectations of their new pet(s) and as long as the T meets those expectations there shouldn't be a problem. If you want a T that you can handle/work around/rehouse with little to no risk, stick to the standard Brachy's and Grammy's.

If you want a T that looks awesome and has attitude and you are willing to be a responsible owner go for an OW, a Psalmopeus or any other T with a 'reputation'.
If it's your first T, their speed and/or attitude may surprise and even intimidate you so be prepared! Don't just think you are, make sure you are!

 

[BaddestRuffest]

You're jumping into the fiesty ones early, but you're being smart about, which is good. Some people are ready for them early on, most aren't. I do like you taste in spiders. Remember though, in 3 months you haven't nearly seen what these animals are capable of, so don't let yourself get complacent. Good luck.

I have a P.chordatus , another Lp , a Ephebopus cyanognathus sling and an A.versicolor sling arriving tomorrow.

 

[Poec54]

I have a P.chordatus , another Lp , a Ephebopus cyanognathus sling and an A.versicolor sling arriving tomorrow.

Man, you're picking out some good stuff.

 

[tyrantuladub]

I've only been in the hobby a few months myself, but I'm always very respectful of what any of the pets I acquire are capable of. I just received some OBT slings the other day, and have a big batch of other OW slings that will be coming some time in the next week, including some pokies. I feel that as long as you're aware of what you're dealing with, and respect the animal's space, you can keep pretty much anything you want with little to no trouble. The G. rosea is for handling, as will be brachys and other docile specimens I acquire, but everybody else is going to be purely look-but-don't-touch unless disturbing/moving/rehousing them is necessary.

 

[Poec54]

I think with enough research and preparation, any T can be a good first T. Just make sure you know what you're getting into and take the necessary precautions. If you understand and accept that it's an eyes only T, and more caution is needed than with most other species, you're good.

If you want a T that looks awesome and has attitude and you are willing to be a responsible owner go for an OW, a Psalmopeus or any other T with a 'reputation'.
If it's your first T, their speed and/or attitude may surprise and even intimidate you so be prepared! Don't just think you are, make sure you are!

That's just it, it takes experience, and you can't get that from reading, any more than you can learn to swim by reading about it. Despite any research, a newbie will encounter things that will surprise and spook them. It's going to happen. The faster and more defensive the spider, the more likely the inexperienced will make mistakes, even panic. Situations can be fluid and fast, people don't always know what may trigger a spider to bolt or bite; this is where newbies can quickly get overwhelmed. I hate the 'sink or swim' approach to taking on spiders beyond a person's skill level and experience. I just don't see the point. Slow down, get used to them, and then take it up a notch. It doesn't do any of us any good to have newbies freaking out with when they're afraid of a fast/defensive spider. They don't know it's at that point until it's already happened. That's where the research part of this isn't going to prepare you for the real thing: they didn't think it was going to run so fast, that it was going to escape, that they were going to get bit, etc. This knowledge can only come from hands-on experience. There's no form for a new owner to sign that says he knows what he's getting in to and that he'll be responsible. That places a burden on forums like this to give thoughtful and conservative advice to newbies. They look up to us for insight and direction. Things like 'Any T can be a good first T' are useless. We can do better than that. We're the caretakers of this hobby, we have an obligation to all the people and animals involved. We should raise the bar. It's a lot bigger than just one person. Again, why the rush? Is there some time constraint that prevents a person from starting off with slow, docile species and working their way up? If you're in it for the long haul, you don't need to start off by jumping in the deep end. I don't want to live with someone who's first spider is an OBT. Should someone's first snake be a black mamba? Do you see teenagers with learner's permits racing in the Indy 500? Do you want to be a passenger on a plane with a pilot that's never flown before, but's done a lot of research?

 

[rob0t]

I think you are completely exaggerating the difficulty of keeping Pokies Poec54. Are they quicker than some? Is the bite a worse? Sure, but they are not that difficult to care for and with proper research a person can certainly start with one as their first tarantula. It's just like anything in life, use the 7 Ps - proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

Experience does not always equal knowledge anyway. A newbie who researches how to properly care for a tarantula is better suited to own one than someone who has been caring for them half assed for 20 years with sponges in the water dish.

 

[Illuminati]

Experience does not always equal knowledge anyway. A newbie who researches how to properly care for a tarantula is better suited to own one than someone who has been caring for them half assed for 20 years with sponges in the water dish.

See being in the reptile hobby for years I can see this side of it too. You meet people who have been in the hobby way longer than other people and are completely wrong, doing it half assed and just completely irresponsible and the new kid that did months of research before he bought something is awesome at taking care of it.
That being said I see where Poec54 is coming from because we don't suggest you start with a Burmese python or retic for your first snake, first snakes are always super docile, easy care snakes.
I think it is hugely dependent upon the actual person themselves. Someone can be cocky and think they can do it and end up looking like an idiot, someone can be smart and wait.. but some of us I do feel can handle it with out being cocky, or feeling like we are jumping into something to fast because we have prepared. I will tell you right now if the spider runs up my arm, it doesn't matter what spider it is or how long I have been doing this I will always be startled but I have prepared myself for that and make sure I limit all options and areas of potential incident to a minimum. Not saying it wont ever happen it would be silly to think there may not be a time someone slips up but to the best of my ability I make sure I do everything in my power to make anything I do go smoothly.

 

[rob0t]

I think it is hugely dependent upon the actual person themselves.

Agreed 100%.

 

[tyrantuladub]

See being in the reptile hobby for years I can see this side of it too. You meet people who have been in the hobby way longer than other people and are completely wrong, doing it half assed and just completely irresponsible and the new kid that did months of research before he bought something is awesome at taking care of it.
That being said I see where Poec54 is coming from because we don't suggest you start with a Burmese python or retic for your first snake, first snakes are always super docile, easy care snakes.
I think it is hugely dependent upon the actual person themselves. Someone can be cocky and think they can do it and end up looking like an idiot, someone can be smart and wait.. but some of us I do feel can handle it with out being cocky, or feeling like we are jumping into something to fast because we have prepared. I will tell you right now if the spider runs up my arm, it doesn't matter what spider it is or how long I have been doing this I will always be startled but I have prepared myself for that and make sure I limit all options and areas of potential incident to a minimum. Not saying it wont ever happen it would be silly to think there may not be a time someone slips up but to the best of my ability I make sure I do everything in my power to make anything I do go smoothly.

As a matter of fact, I have a co-worker that has been keeping Ts for years, but was telling me about how a bite from a Haplopelma lividium can kill a person and how he uses aquarium nets to catch his spiders. I just kind of gave him a funny look. Not trying to brag, I admit to being new and I still have a ton to learn, but I was just kind of amazed...