Opinions on buying a 2.5 inch "unsexed" G. iherengi sling?

nicodimus22

Arachnomancer
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
711
Hey gang. I will be going to a reptile show this weekend. One of the (offline) vendors has a 2.5 inch G. iherengi sling for sale, and it is marked as unsexed.

My question for you guys is this: Do you think it's likely that the vendor is being honest with the unsexed label with a sling that large? I don't want to come off as completely jaded, but I feel like most breeders would know the gender at 2.5 inches, and I don't want to be taken advantage of. I have never dealt with this vendor before, so there is no trust that has been established with him yet.

For those of you that sell slings, I would really value your input. Would you know the gender at that size?
 

Stormsky

Arachnopeon
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
33
I'm assuming the Hamburg Reptile Show?(I'm also from PA)
If it's NetBug, Joe's Tarantulas, or Kamel Spiders you're buying from, I would personally trust them and have bought from them before. The guy from Kamel Spiders is even a member on here. I don't have experience with anyone else so I can't really help past those 3.

At that size, I can understand not yet managing to get a molt with the proper parts intact, so I could see someone not managing to sex it yet.
 
Last edited:

mconnachan

Arachnoprince
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
1,246
At 2.5" the seller/breeder should know the sex, unless every moult has been so messed up he hasn't been able to sex it, although at that age I wouldn't consider it as a sling it's a juvenile. The question really should be is the "price" indicative of an unsexed sp. Look on some web sites and set yourself an average price range, if it's over priced walk away, the seller will most likely call you back and do a deal.
 

Tomoran

Arachnoknight
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
239
When I first got into the hobby, I used to shy away from unsexed juveniles because I thought that the dealers would know by then what sex they had. I worried that any unsexed juvie was really a male that said vendor was trying to pawn off. Not the case. You have to remember that sexing takes time, and most of these vendor have hundreds of spiders on hand at any given time. They often don't have the time to sex out dozens of sling and juveniles. I've bought several tarantulas as juveniles larger than 2", and I'm batting about 70/30 female to male.

That said, I'm talking about reputable dealers. Not sure what you'll get at the expo. If it's one of the folks mentioned above, I wouldn't worry. If the price is good (and iheringis are awesome spiders) then give it a go. :)
 

Rittdk01

Arachnoknight
Joined
Oct 4, 2016
Messages
264
I have bought a few off this site at around that size marked as "unsexed". They were all male....
 

Nightstalker47

Arachnoking
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,613
It depends, ask them if they have any sexed females of the same size, keep in mind G.iheringi is a fairly valuable species. So they should be trying to sex them early on, If they have sexed females for sale then the "unsexed" are likely males.

That's one thing about these sellers, if they sex a bunch of females and put them for sale then there is automatically higher odds of the unsexed specimens being male. Plus there's always the possibility they list sexed males as unsexed to get them sold faster.


Anyhow, I would look into how many other individuals are for sale, and how many of them are sexed. I prefer buying smaller slings when I want a female, I've had much better luck that way, they are harder to sex at that size so most females haven't been separated from the others yet...
 

Trenor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
1,899
A seller with a small amount of stock might know what the sex of some of their larger Ts are but people with several hundred to a thousand (or more) tarantulas are a lot less likely to know. Some sellers don't bother to sex any of their Ts. If it's a large seller, with a lot of large unsexed Ts, I'd be less inclined to worry. I have seen some vendors with reptiles and a few large Ts for sale. I would be a lot more leery of them.

If it's a more reputable dealer I'd be more inclined to buy larger Ts from them. I usually go for smaller slings as they are often a lot cheaper and more fun for me to raise.

As far as knowing the sex of a T over 2.5 inches we see a lot pf people on here with just a few Ts and they don't know the sex. I have several that I was unable to get a close enough view with some of the older stuff I was using. It's a lot easier now but I still have a few larger unsexed Ts.
 

Nightstalker47

Arachnoking
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,613
A seller with a small amount of stock might know what the sex of some of their larger Ts are but people with several hundred to a thousand (or more) tarantulas are a lot less likely to know. Some sellers don't bother to sex any of their Ts. If it's a large seller, with a lot of large unsexed Ts, I'd be less inclined to worry. I have seen some vendors with reptiles and a few large Ts for sale. I would be a lot more leery of them.

If it's a more reputable dealer I'd be more inclined to buy larger Ts from them. I usually go for smaller slings as they are often a lot cheaper and more fun for me to raise.

As far as knowing the sex of a T over 2.5 inches we see a lot pf people on here with just a few Ts and they don't know the sex. I have several that I was unable to get a close enough view with some of the older stuff I was using. It's a lot easier now but I still have a few larger unsexed Ts.
It doesn't take much time to sex a molt, when you have species that are sought after most sellers do sex them, no matter how much stock they may have. Sexing the spider allows them to make more money(females) for pretty much the same product that would otherwise yield less profit.

I can see where your coming from and this would probably be true for many vendors out there. It really does depend on the species and vendor, how long they may of had them in stock and plenty of other factors. But if the T molts I think they would take the time to sex it just in case they have a female, that way they could sell it at a higher price.
 

Trenor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
1,899
I know quite a few sellers on here that I have also met at shows who don't sex their Ts unless they are a lot bigger than 2.5 inches. When you have over 1000 slings it's a big task for a husband and wife team to feed/water them much less try to sex something that has a small frail molt. So I guess it would depend on the amount of time the seller has and how large the lot of Ts they have are.

You are right that people can get more money for a sexed T. There is also the added problem of we were kinda iffy on most of these last molts and we don't want to sale this as sexed and not be right. So we just say unsexed (which they are) and we are better off. Depending on the equipment they seller has on hand it's not always easy to sex molts.

I will say I'd be more likely to buy from a large seller who has some big Ts rather than a person who just has 3 or 4 large mixed species of Ts for sale.
 

Trenor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
1,899
Noobs usually...
I have several M.balfouri that have some deep burrows and have never thrown out a molt. One of them, I got from a 3/4" sling, molted MM and had never been sexed. Only 3 in my communal enclosure is sexed so far. As it is hard to tell which T the molt came from. I have three Ts that since being large enough to spermathecae sex they have torn up all their molts... even with the usb microscope I was unable to find enough of the right pieces to determine the their sex. We get people posting larger than 3 inch Ts photos in the epiandrous fusillae and spermathecae sexing part if this forum all the time. So at 2.5 they were not sexed. If they want to sell those what do they put them up as? Unsexed. I also feel a forum group guess on your Ts sex using epiandrous fusillae sexing might just as well be listed as unsexed or at best suspected male/female.

Well not all noobs, some noobs know their sexing very well, a seller/breeder should know, as for experienced keepers, if they don't know then they need to do a bit of research, yes.
You assume that every seller wants to take the time to sex all the Ts they have and that's not always the case. It's not always about knowing how to sex Ts as the listed examples show.

It's easy to toss out the noob term. Most of the time, when it is used, I find it not really descriptive of the issue or helpful. Having a 3" unsexed T doesn't make someone a noob.
 

Tomoran

Arachnoknight
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
239
Noobs usually...
Yeah, I have to politely disagree. As @Trenor said, there are many that have been in the hobby a long time that don't have all of their juveniles sexed. There are instances where it is difficult to get a molt to sex...It's just reality. I have plenty right not that I haven't sexed yet, and I've been doing this a little while.

As for vendors, again, I don't think that it has anything to do with vendors not knowing how to sex. If your business is caring for, packing, and shipping hundreds of tarantulas, you're not going to necessarily have the time to sex them all. True, females sell for more, and some dealers/breeders will sex out some to put on their sites. Others would just assume not bother and sell them as juvies. There are quite a few very reputable vendors who have unsexed juveniles available right now on their sites, and I really don't think that they are all a) unable to sex them or b) trying to screw people.
 

mconnachan

Arachnoprince
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
1,246
Yeah, I have to politely disagree. As @Trenor said, there are many that have been in the hobby a long time that don't have all of their juveniles sexed. There are instances where it is difficult to get a molt to sex...It's just reality. I have plenty right not that I haven't sexed yet, and I've been doing this a little while.

As for vendors, again, I don't think that it has anything to do with vendors not knowing how to sex. If your business is caring for, packing, and shipping hundreds of tarantulas, you're not going to necessarily have the time to sex them all. True, females sell for more, and some dealers/breeders will sex out some to put on their sites. Others would just assume not bother and sell them as juvies. There are quite a few very reputable vendors who have unsexed juveniles available right now on their sites, and I really don't think that they are all a) unable to sex them or b) trying to screw people.
That's not what I'm saying, all I meant was that if the breeder doesn't know the sex then the price should be relevant to an unspecified male/female, I agree that breeders don't have the time to sex all their T's if they have hundreds even thousands, if they only have a few then they should be sold as male/female, for their own benefit and the buyers.
 

mconnachan

Arachnoprince
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
1,246
It doesn't take much time to sex a molt, when you have species that are sought after most sellers do sex them, no matter how much stock they may have. Sexing the spider allows them to make more money(females) for pretty much the same product that would otherwise yield less profit.

I can see where your coming from and this would probably be true for many vendors out there. It really does depend on the species and vendor, how long they may of had them in stock and plenty of other factors. But if the T molts I think they would take the time to sex it just in case they have a female, that way they could sell it at a higher price.
This is indicative of my meaning.
 

Nightstalker47

Arachnoking
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,613
I don't think you guys are getting anywhere with this, this is literally the most speculative discussion we could have, all vendors are different and operate their business in a fairly unique manner. We can't say what gender the spiders would be based on size alone...

I'm not implying that all the 2.5 inch specimens are male, but it's likely that out of those Ts some females were discovered and sold as sexed. Through this process the natural selection of gender is diluted, as more females could be separated from the group being sold as unsexed, meaning higher odds of you getting males.

If I was running a tarantula business I would take the time to sex molts if they were available. Of course some get chewed up or damaged, but not all. For them to have say a hundred unsexed Ts for sale and not a single molt was checked seems unlikely. I'm sure it happens but I wouldn't consider that the norm.

Shady business men may even check the molts and discover males, then sell them as unsexed and keep the females. I do believe most are honest and don't do this, but how many times have we all heard the tale of someone getting swindled around buying an unwanted male?

So in short we have no definitive answer to your question @nicodimus22 but you can surely ask some questions and figure out what your vendor has going on... @mconnachan was misunderstood. He meant that those who hadn't learnt to sex molts yet are often the ones with unsexed individuals, this is partially true. I do still prefer not to generalize as it could happen to anyone, since molts aren't always left intact.

I still believe most vendors sex their specimens, or at least attempt to do so. It seems counter intuitive not to, after all they are running a business and that's an easy way to make more money. The argument that they don't have time is just as valid, albeit unlikely IMO.
 

mconnachan

Arachnoprince
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
1,246
Having a 3" unsexed T doesn't make someone a noob
That's taken out of context, to what I've said. I've stated my opinion, I'm allowed one, as is everyone, although it seems the posts pertaining to my opinion are somehow wrong.
 

mconnachan

Arachnoprince
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
1,246
I don't think you guys are getting anywhere with this, this is literally the most speculative discussion we could have, all vendors are different and operate their business in a fairly unique manner. We can't say what gender the spiders would be based on size alone...
This is my last post on this thread as @Nightstalker47 said it's going nowhere, we'll leave it at that then guys.
 

nicodimus22

Arachnomancer
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
711
Well, thanks for weighing in, everybody. I am still firmly on the fence. We'll see what tomorrow brings.
 
Top