Omothymus Violaceopes - weird death

[SkyKuba88]

Hello! I got problem with my Omothymus Violaceopes. One week ago I gave her water and I noticed that spider is very lazy and responds poorly to any stimuli. Then I go away for a weak. After my return I found dead spider .
Its abdomen seemed to be cracked, and a white liquid (already dried) seemed to be leaking from inside. I have the impression that it was even partially eaten. Let me just mention that there was no food inside. This can be seen in the attached photo. Does anyone have an idea what could have caused his death? One of my friends gave me the idea that it could be too much humidity. What do you think? Thank you in advance for your answers. Regards!

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

Was she pooping normally?

 

[l4nsky]

Please attach enclosure pics

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

Please attach enclosure pics

Didn’t you have an insect chew out of one of yours once?

 

[l4nsky]

Didn’t you have an insect chew out of one of yours once?

Yes, an Acroceridae spp killed a WC Aphonopelma spp sling in my collection, but that's not the case here.

The "damage" appears to be just standard decay after a few days post death. The more telling sign is the lethargy before leaving, which IMHO points to another cause of death which a full enclosure pic can confirm.

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

Ventilation at the base?

 

[SkyKuba88]

Unfortunately, I didn't take a photo of the container she lived in. Its dimensions are Ø132x160 [mm] (1500ml). about 3-4 cm of substrate and a piece of bark and some dried moss. You may be right about the decay because it didn't smell good. Previously, I had not noticed any disturbing symptoms at all. It was enough to touch the container for her to start running away to her hiding place. Her behavior changed practically overnight. Regarding excretion - I think everything was ok and it's not about obstruction. Ventilation was good. Holes on the lid and around the container. Unfortunately, I didn't take any photos because I decided to clean it all up. My mistake.

 

[l4nsky]

Unfortunately, I didn't take a photo of the container she lived in. Its dimensions are Ø132x160 [mm] (1500ml). about 3-4 cm of substrate and a piece of bark and some dried moss. You may be right about the decay because it didn't smell good. Previously, I had not noticed any disturbing symptoms at all. It was enough to touch the container for her to start running away to her hiding place. Her behavior changed practically overnight. Regarding excretion - I think everything was ok and it's not about obstruction.

I'm more interested in ventilation, specifically the amount and placement of the holes.

 

[Wolfram1]

yep, my first though was potenially not enough ventilation and in turn too moist

but this is hard to judge without seeing the enclosure in its totality

 

[l4nsky]

Unfortunately, I didn't take a photo of the container she lived in. Its dimensions are Ø132x160 [mm] (1500ml). about 3-4 cm of substrate and a piece of bark and some dried moss. You may be right about the decay because it didn't smell good. Previously, I had not noticed any disturbing symptoms at all. It was enough to touch the container for her to start running away to her hiding place. Her behavior changed practically overnight. Regarding excretion - I think everything was ok and it's not about obstruction. Ventilation was good. Holes on the lid and around the container. Unfortunately, I didn't take any photos because I decided to clean it all up. My mistake.

So, the main thing I wanted to see was amount and placement of ventilation, which your description does confirm my suspicions for cause of death.

Lack of air circulation due to the ventilation pattern leads to stagnation of the enclosed air. The stagnant, or still air, naturally separates out to the individual components based upon weight (oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, etc).

As a visual example, think oil and vinegar in a jar. Shake it up (or circulate it) and it can mix, but let it go still (or stagnant) and the heavier vinegar will settle at the bottom with the oil on top.

What has happened in the enclosure is the bottom, unventilated half has become stagnant and the heavier, non-breathable gases (like CO2) have pooled at the bottom, which is where the sling has chosen to live. CO2 is used as an anesthetic in invertebrates to knock them out, so this high concentration near the booklungs of the specimen has gradually weakened it to the point of asphyxiation. Now there are a few aggravating factors here as well.

• This is an arboreal animal by nature and presumably has a much lower tolerance for the effects of stagnant air being as they live up in the trees, especially in comparison to a fossorial species which may be exposed to higher levels of CO2 due to their nature.
• This is a moisture dependent species that needs a high level of humidity to prevent dessication. More humid air holds less breathable oxygen. This is a simple matter of displacement as when we fit more water vapor into a given cubic inch of air to make it more humid, we have to displace other gases like nitrogen and oxygen to make it happen.
• This is a moisture dependent species that requires a moist substrate. Moist substrates hold exponentially more soil fauna than dry substrate. Those soil fauna, located in the stagnant bottom half of the enclosure, breathe what little remaining oxygen there is and exhale even more carbon dioxide to pool at the bottom.

Here's a bit more detail as well:
https://arachnoboards.com/threads/my-ts-are-dying-help.351789/post-3248862

 

[SkyKuba88]

So, the main thing I wanted to see was amount and placement of ventilation, which your description does confirm my suspicions for cause of death.

Lack of air circulation due to the ventilation pattern leads to stagnation of the enclosed air. The stagnant, or still air, naturally separates out to the individual components based upon weight (oxygen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, etc).

As a visual example, think oil and vinegar in a jar. Shake it up (or circulate it) and it can mix, but let it go still (or stagnant) and the heavier vinegar will settle at the bottom with the oil on top.

What has happened in the enclosure is the bottom, unventilated half has become stagnant and the heavier, non-breathable gases (like CO2) have pooled at the bottom, which is where the sling has chosen to live. CO2 is used as an anesthetic in invertebrates to knock them out, so this high concentration near the booklungs of the specimen has gradually weakened it to the point of asphyxiation. Now there are a few aggravating factors here as well.

• This is an arboreal animal by nature and presumably has a much lower tolerance for the effects of stagnant air being as they live up in the trees, especially in comparison to a fossorial species which may be exposed to higher levels of CO2 due to their nature.
• This is a moisture dependent species that needs a high level of humidity to prevent dessication. More humid air holds less breathable oxygen. This is a simple matter of displacement as when we fit more water vapor into a given cubic inch of air to make it more humid, we have to displace other gases like nitrogen and oxygen to make it happen.
• This is a moisture dependent species that requires a moist substrate. Moist substrates hold exponentially more soil fauna than dry substrate. Those soil fauna, located in the stagnant bottom half of the enclosure, breathe what little remaining oxygen there is and exhale even more carbon dioxide to pool at the bottom.

Here's a bit more detail as well:
https://arachnoboards.com/threads/my-ts-are-dying-help.351789/post-3248862

You solved this puzzle - bravo! Now I know where I made a mistake - the ventilation was too high. The photos show a cleaned container left by a dead spider. I never figured it out the way you presented it. Now I feel very guilty because the spider is dead due to my fault and ignorance. This is because I keep most of the spiders in glass terrariums with top-down ventilation. Thank you very much for your help.

UPDATE: the link you provided... the guy makes the same mistake with ventilation as me. It is also true that his spiders, like mine, died in natural body positions. Thank you again!

 

[l4nsky]

You solved this puzzle - bravo! Now I know where I made a mistake - the ventilation was too high. The photos show a cleaned container left by a dead spider. I never figured it out the way you presented it. Now I feel very guilty because the spider is dead due to my fault and ignorance. This is because I keep most of the spiders in glass terrariums with top-down ventilation. Thank you very much for your help.

Don't feel guilty. You're in a very small niche of a rather niche hobby (moisture dependent species in the tarantula hobby) and topics like this aren't widely talked about or frankly even believed by some of the old timers.

Just strive to make sure you don't repeat the circumstances that led to the issue .

 

[SkyKuba88]

It's now 1 a.m. in my country. As soon as I get up in the morning, I start improving the ventilation of the rest of the spiders. I was curious why the male and female Rufilata do not want to copulate - the male was in exactly the same container as the Omothymus, while the female has had a 30x30x30 cm terrarium with only top ventilation for some time (and, surprisingly, it sits low to the ground). I don't want to predict, but it may be the same cause that led to the death of Omothyus. I fix the situation first thing in the morning. Poe will get a new home It's not entirely that I feel guilty - rather disappointed. I have been breeding spiders for a long time, I read a lot, I acquire a lot of new knowledge, I have done several breedings, and the topic of ventilation somehow escaped me... Thanks again, now I have the motivation to make sure it doesn't happen again. I'm just sad that the omothymus didn't survive, because I always wanted to have this species and I finally did... it was with me for only 5 weeks.

 

[Brewser]

My sympathies go out to you,
Awful experience to go through.
Especially with loss of a Magnificent and Majestic Being as Singapore Blue.
Keep mov'in forward is all.
Best Regards,