If it makes anything better I don't think our funnel webs should be owned PERIOD.
October is Pit Bull awareness month
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HungryGhost
Arachnoknight
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Who is to decide what somebody else really needs? That is a slippery slope. Do you really need a boat, a tarantula, a motorcycle, a fast car, cable TV, a smart phone.......?
Fair call, I still think the breed has problems, more problem than other dogs.
freedumbdclxvi
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All that site said was this extremist anti-pitbull group may or may not have the numbers wrong because no one keeps track of the amount of dogs and pit bulls in the country? Not a very strong argument to be fair, but nevertheless I'm just happy they aren't over here, you Americans have a love/hate relationship with them and we will leave it at that.
freedumbdclxvi
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Pit bull related deaths average 18 a year. You're telling me it's more logical to say the entire breed is horrible than to say there are about twenty subpar owners?
---------- Post added 10-16-2014 at 06:17 PM ----------
---------- Post added 10-16-2014 at 06:17 PM ----------
Don't you own some?
freedumbdclxvi
Arachnoprince
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Actually, I believe German Shepherds, one of my favorite breeds, top the bite list. I don't see why the numbers are worrisome - if the breeds were as terrible as made out to be, as PBL said, the numbers should be astronomically higher. Yet, that isn't the case.
I have to ask again - what is the more logical conclusion?
I have to ask again - what is the more logical conclusion?
HungryGhost
Arachnoknight
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It's all about being cool and macho. Bunch of idiots.
---------- Post added 10-16-2014 at 06:37 PM ----------
Here's my killer monster from hell after she licked cat food off of this kittens face. The horror!
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Okay, enough.
This thread is about Pitbull Awareness. Extolling the virtues and foibles of a certain breed of dog. This is partly motivated because this animal has been given a bad reputation. This reputation stems from the FACT they are powerful willful animals. As with any powerful willful animal they need proper training and treatment. By nature, with the exception of inbreeding, the pitbull is no different than any other breed temperament wise.
To give an analogy, I have had to cope with several horses that were sour. They were raised, trained and kept in an environment that turned them into vicious unpredictable animals. It was an ownership problem, not the animals fault. At one time they tried to ban mustangs for the same reason they have banned pitbulls but fortunately saner more sensible minds prevailed and it was clearly established it was ownership, not the breed.
We have had a professional dog breeder weigh in on this thread to verify this racial profiling is ineffective. Searching the web proves this to be the case.
This thread is basically an effort to raise peoples awareness of this breed. I ask everyone posting here to please attempt to confine your comments within the expressed purpose of this thread.
This forum is up to it's eyeballs in animal lovers. Negativity towards an animal here, expressed repeatedly, is easily considered trolling. Deliberate antagonism. Please do not give the moderators reason to censor postings, give warnings, or even lock the thread.
---------- Post added 10-17-2014 at 05:50 AM ----------
As an aside, I resent not being able to be my usual anal snarky self and have had to assume the role of 'dutch uncle' here. Please reread your posts carefully and refrain from making comments that show a lack of respect of others, or their animals.
This thread is about Pitbull Awareness. Extolling the virtues and foibles of a certain breed of dog. This is partly motivated because this animal has been given a bad reputation. This reputation stems from the FACT they are powerful willful animals. As with any powerful willful animal they need proper training and treatment. By nature, with the exception of inbreeding, the pitbull is no different than any other breed temperament wise.
To give an analogy, I have had to cope with several horses that were sour. They were raised, trained and kept in an environment that turned them into vicious unpredictable animals. It was an ownership problem, not the animals fault. At one time they tried to ban mustangs for the same reason they have banned pitbulls but fortunately saner more sensible minds prevailed and it was clearly established it was ownership, not the breed.
We have had a professional dog breeder weigh in on this thread to verify this racial profiling is ineffective. Searching the web proves this to be the case.
This thread is basically an effort to raise peoples awareness of this breed. I ask everyone posting here to please attempt to confine your comments within the expressed purpose of this thread.
This forum is up to it's eyeballs in animal lovers. Negativity towards an animal here, expressed repeatedly, is easily considered trolling. Deliberate antagonism. Please do not give the moderators reason to censor postings, give warnings, or even lock the thread.
---------- Post added 10-17-2014 at 05:50 AM ----------
As an aside, I resent not being able to be my usual anal snarky self and have had to assume the role of 'dutch uncle' here. Please reread your posts carefully and refrain from making comments that show a lack of respect of others, or their animals.
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Speaking from somewhat limited experience here. I've had close contact with maybe 15 'pitbulls'.
In general, they are the terrible twos of the dog world. They aren't stupid, but often not the brightest bulbs in the light factory. They seem to live to test everything around them, especially the owners, just like a 2 year old kid. They love to see what they can get away with and coupled to an extraordinary amount of energy and a very playful nature, they are canine bombs waiting to go off. To paraphrase Steinbeck, the dog equivalent of Hazel. The mind of a child grafted to the body of a bull.
That isn't saying they can't be trained. But the training is along the lines of training a doberman. The usual sit, stay, roll over, bark of the average mongrel doesn't work. Doesn't even get close. As the dobie it is an intensive school and therapy course, both for the animal and the owner. It takes months working together to establish and maintain the boundaries. A week or two of an obedience course is not going to penetrate that thick skull and stay there. You have to get past the rollicking bouncing exuberance, not once, but before every single training session. That is not a dog for the average casual owner with little time to give it the attention it needs.
Your pitbull anecdote. This came from several fellow law enforcement officers. The call came in over county wide, 'Pitbull in daycare center'. Probably a third of the on duty's responded code three. Local PD, SO, a mutual aid and the CHP all jumped on it. Even the local FD sent in a unit.
The dog saw a kid being led into the day care. It seized the opportunity and blasted the door of the car open and charged into the place. The owner, or rather the wife of the owner who had opened the car door was your complete mouth breathing air head blonde. She spent the entire scenario standing next to her car in complete freak out mode.
Enter the dog. Room full of kids. First, knock them all over. Then the ones that tried to get up got romped on and slobber licked. The more the kids freaked, the more excited the dog became. She had never realized there could be so many toys in one place. She became a whirlwind of romp and lick. She grew so excited she started to leak. One person working the day care grabbed the dog and lifted her into the air. In her words, 'I nearly drowned', hugging the dog to her where it could really get some serious licking in. She let go of the dog and it tried to climb her, nearly ripping her blouse off with it's paws. Everyone else who intervened got the climb treatment. The responding LEOs also got climbed and mercilessly romped. A lot of buttons were torn off clothing and uniforms. The only thing the LEOs could do was put themselves between the dog and the children. The dog went into a frenzy, spinning in circles and spraying everyone in the room with pee.
A FD in a turnout finally bear hugged the dog and with the aid of officers, manhandle carried it outside. Animal control showed and a catchpole later arrested it.
Judge Maguire had a fun sense of humor. He once sentenced himself to AA and a CPR course for a DUI. The animal's owners were brought in and the judge at one moment was standing up and bellowing at them. An animal control officer, the one who made the catch, said her peace and made an offer. The owners and the judge accepted it. The owners were ordered to pay the AC officer, who was also a professional dog trainer, for as long as it took to get the animal properly trained and under control.
A few months later the day care center has Molly days. Molly dives out of the car and hurls herself against the day care door. Once she is inside she drops onto her tummy and crawls while the kids pile all over her. She is permitted to sit up and say hellos but the kids are warned they will get a tongue bath.
In general, they are the terrible twos of the dog world. They aren't stupid, but often not the brightest bulbs in the light factory. They seem to live to test everything around them, especially the owners, just like a 2 year old kid. They love to see what they can get away with and coupled to an extraordinary amount of energy and a very playful nature, they are canine bombs waiting to go off. To paraphrase Steinbeck, the dog equivalent of Hazel. The mind of a child grafted to the body of a bull.
That isn't saying they can't be trained. But the training is along the lines of training a doberman. The usual sit, stay, roll over, bark of the average mongrel doesn't work. Doesn't even get close. As the dobie it is an intensive school and therapy course, both for the animal and the owner. It takes months working together to establish and maintain the boundaries. A week or two of an obedience course is not going to penetrate that thick skull and stay there. You have to get past the rollicking bouncing exuberance, not once, but before every single training session. That is not a dog for the average casual owner with little time to give it the attention it needs.
Your pitbull anecdote. This came from several fellow law enforcement officers. The call came in over county wide, 'Pitbull in daycare center'. Probably a third of the on duty's responded code three. Local PD, SO, a mutual aid and the CHP all jumped on it. Even the local FD sent in a unit.
The dog saw a kid being led into the day care. It seized the opportunity and blasted the door of the car open and charged into the place. The owner, or rather the wife of the owner who had opened the car door was your complete mouth breathing air head blonde. She spent the entire scenario standing next to her car in complete freak out mode.
Enter the dog. Room full of kids. First, knock them all over. Then the ones that tried to get up got romped on and slobber licked. The more the kids freaked, the more excited the dog became. She had never realized there could be so many toys in one place. She became a whirlwind of romp and lick. She grew so excited she started to leak. One person working the day care grabbed the dog and lifted her into the air. In her words, 'I nearly drowned', hugging the dog to her where it could really get some serious licking in. She let go of the dog and it tried to climb her, nearly ripping her blouse off with it's paws. Everyone else who intervened got the climb treatment. The responding LEOs also got climbed and mercilessly romped. A lot of buttons were torn off clothing and uniforms. The only thing the LEOs could do was put themselves between the dog and the children. The dog went into a frenzy, spinning in circles and spraying everyone in the room with pee.
A FD in a turnout finally bear hugged the dog and with the aid of officers, manhandle carried it outside. Animal control showed and a catchpole later arrested it.
Judge Maguire had a fun sense of humor. He once sentenced himself to AA and a CPR course for a DUI. The animal's owners were brought in and the judge at one moment was standing up and bellowing at them. An animal control officer, the one who made the catch, said her peace and made an offer. The owners and the judge accepted it. The owners were ordered to pay the AC officer, who was also a professional dog trainer, for as long as it took to get the animal properly trained and under control.
A few months later the day care center has Molly days. Molly dives out of the car and hurls herself against the day care door. Once she is inside she drops onto her tummy and crawls while the kids pile all over her. She is permitted to sit up and say hellos but the kids are warned they will get a tongue bath.
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Wait, I'm confused. Why do you keep something you don't think you should be allowed to?
That's an excellent photo, HG. Man, brindle is one of my favorite markings.
Has there been a study on why BSL leads to an increase in dog attacks? My personal theory is that giving particular kinds of dogs a dangerous badguy image increases their appeal to the type of people who would abuse a dog in order to make it vicious.
At the previous apartment complex I lived in, about half the dogs there were banned breeds. It was pretty funny. One of my dog's friends was a dogfight breeder rescue pitbull who was a "jack russel terrier" on paper. Her new owner came from a family of pit breeders and she was one of the best behaved dogs I've ever met.
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I read about that in my web surfing this AM. Somewhere out there. The problem owners ignore the laws. The breeders cash in on the illegal pitbull trade. So the majority of trained and well behaved animals are removed from society and the gap gets filled with the a-holes.
Horses cause around 45 deaths a year and many thousands of injuries in the US. Dogs will respond to situations with snaps and slashing, horses bolt. Personally, I'd much prefer to face down a vicious dog than a furious sour horse. When they start aiming those hind hooves your doo doo be very deep.
In the case of Molly mentioned above, I don't think she was unusual or exceptional. All young dogs love to romp with children. Molly had been raised in a very loving household but without any training, obedience or otherwise. She absolutely adored kids and her brain would shut off when she was around them. The trainer didn't attempt to get Molly to avoid or respect children. It was far easier to simply train her to go down on her tummy around small kids. Simple and sensible. Since Molly hadn't been given any of the abuse be vicious crap, a few months of education in how to act civil and sociable and she turned into your average well behaved animal.
Now if it had been the average old world akita in her place, instincts could have kicked in, the adults would have been chased out, and it would have gone into protection mode, ready to face down anyone who might pose a threat to his/her brood. Adults that pose a perceived threat to children are in much worse danger than the threat of a badly trained pitbull. Other sub species of canines will act in a similar manner. That's real genetics, not products of an environment.
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In the right hands they are simply a splendid dog, loving, loyal, athletic and generally pretty healthy and pretty nice looking. They are not a beginner type breed though as they can be stubborn, especially as youngsters in training, and unfortunately a lot of new dog owners jump on this breed (cheap and readily available)and quickly get in over their heads. They require strong dog owners IME.
I used to train dogs, I walk dogs for a friend's business and have been around a lot of dogs in my life, and some of the sweetest, most endearing dogs I have been around have been pitbulls. My Doberman and each of my last two boxers all had/have pitbull "friends" they romp with on a regular basis without concern.
When I had my dobie, I had a friend move in with me with a young pit that I helped raise, and even as an experienced trainer I will admit it was a tougher than average train, but goddam that dog turned out to be one spectacular dog in the end, she lived to over 15 healthy years. Just lost her this past spring as well as their other pit, which btw was the absolute sweetest dog I have been around. Always laying across my lap smiling....I miss those dogs like crazy and they weren't even mine!!
Because my boxer is white, she is mistaken for a pit at least twice a day.
I used to train dogs, I walk dogs for a friend's business and have been around a lot of dogs in my life, and some of the sweetest, most endearing dogs I have been around have been pitbulls. My Doberman and each of my last two boxers all had/have pitbull "friends" they romp with on a regular basis without concern.
When I had my dobie, I had a friend move in with me with a young pit that I helped raise, and even as an experienced trainer I will admit it was a tougher than average train, but goddam that dog turned out to be one spectacular dog in the end, she lived to over 15 healthy years. Just lost her this past spring as well as their other pit, which btw was the absolute sweetest dog I have been around. Always laying across my lap smiling....I miss those dogs like crazy and they weren't even mine!!
Because my boxer is white, she is mistaken for a pit at least twice a day.
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Question
The contention among some is pitbulls are inherently a dangerous antisocial breed and should be banned. A given.
Now consider. Some of the more primitive animals operate on a very base level. They are, as a rule, the most dangerous animals, relative to their prey or enemies. Their attacks would be considered deliberate, belligerent, aimed to kill or main, instinctive that resembles malice aforethought. As examples, cobras, spitting spiders, wolves hunting mice, coyotes hunting rodents and lizards, the big cats. They aim and premeditate a kill with a single deadly strike. This is not a melee assault like a dog fight, mindlessly getting in bites purely by luck coupled with force and agility.
Therefore, if the pitbull is inherently a deadly animal and not a product of an environment, it would logically have recorded instances of a deadly strike. A canine deadly strike is pause, gather, aim, and pounce/bite. Examples: my akita killing other dogs. No snarling, no random bites and slashes, one bite and shake to death or hold it down until it dies. Wolves and mice: pause, aim, leap bite gulp. Wolves taking down a deer is hypnotizing and terrifying. One after another takes a deadly strike and slash, but in complete silence as a rule. The same with coyotes.
So can anyone give us instances of the premeditated instinctive one shot assault from a pitbull or is it's usual modus operandi the usual pack type animal, random biting and slashing along with a ship load of snarling which is normal in virtually all long time domesticated dog breeds?
One aspect to take into consideration. The deadly strike is, as a rule, silent. No snarling, growling or any other noise. It's not a fight scenario but kill for protection or much more often, food. Coyotes ranging are accompanied by a continuous litany of yips and yowls. When they stop to hunt the entire pack goes silent. Even fighting among themselves or with domestic dogs they are silent. Compare to a big cat defending it's young. You're going to see a lot of white teeth and hear some unholy howling screeching screaming vocalizing.
The contention among some is pitbulls are inherently a dangerous antisocial breed and should be banned. A given.
Now consider. Some of the more primitive animals operate on a very base level. They are, as a rule, the most dangerous animals, relative to their prey or enemies. Their attacks would be considered deliberate, belligerent, aimed to kill or main, instinctive that resembles malice aforethought. As examples, cobras, spitting spiders, wolves hunting mice, coyotes hunting rodents and lizards, the big cats. They aim and premeditate a kill with a single deadly strike. This is not a melee assault like a dog fight, mindlessly getting in bites purely by luck coupled with force and agility.
Therefore, if the pitbull is inherently a deadly animal and not a product of an environment, it would logically have recorded instances of a deadly strike. A canine deadly strike is pause, gather, aim, and pounce/bite. Examples: my akita killing other dogs. No snarling, no random bites and slashes, one bite and shake to death or hold it down until it dies. Wolves and mice: pause, aim, leap bite gulp. Wolves taking down a deer is hypnotizing and terrifying. One after another takes a deadly strike and slash, but in complete silence as a rule. The same with coyotes.
So can anyone give us instances of the premeditated instinctive one shot assault from a pitbull or is it's usual modus operandi the usual pack type animal, random biting and slashing along with a ship load of snarling which is normal in virtually all long time domesticated dog breeds?
One aspect to take into consideration. The deadly strike is, as a rule, silent. No snarling, growling or any other noise. It's not a fight scenario but kill for protection or much more often, food. Coyotes ranging are accompanied by a continuous litany of yips and yowls. When they stop to hunt the entire pack goes silent. Even fighting among themselves or with domestic dogs they are silent. Compare to a big cat defending it's young. You're going to see a lot of white teeth and hear some unholy howling screeching screaming vocalizing.
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HungryGhost
Arachnoknight
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@The Snark - you are 100% correct about the training. A week or two in an obedience class is a joke. I agree also with the fact that they are not the brightest bulbs on the tree, labs and sheps are tops in that category IMHO. The are incredible "sensitive" if I may use that word. They are very quick to pick up on your tone of voice wether or not you approve of their behavior.
Here are two tips I always give potential pit owners:
1- ALWAYS keep your dog leashed if you are not indoors or in a fenced yard. Pits have a bad enough rap as it is and there is no need to give the media more fodder. Personally I think all dogs should be leashed at all times. Pits can be dog aggressive and that's where most people are going to get into trouble, two unleashed dogs going at it.
2- Never allow them to think they are in charge. For example I never play tug-of-war with my dog, she will win every time. I only engage in activities where I am the winner.
Here are two tips I always give potential pit owners:
1- ALWAYS keep your dog leashed if you are not indoors or in a fenced yard. Pits have a bad enough rap as it is and there is no need to give the media more fodder. Personally I think all dogs should be leashed at all times. Pits can be dog aggressive and that's where most people are going to get into trouble, two unleashed dogs going at it.
2- Never allow them to think they are in charge. For example I never play tug-of-war with my dog, she will win every time. I only engage in activities where I am the winner.
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Trolling much, jigalojey? You obviously don't know squat about American Pit Bull Terriers other than what the media-who thrive on "if it bleeds, it leads" mentality-tell you. You're a Kool-Aid drinker, who will fall for whatever the news media wants you to believe. You're probably also not a day over 30, if that, so you aren't old enough to remember first hand when other breeds suffered that same image, due to attracting "crap owners". I am. And I have NEVER had to "smash my pit bulls(yes, it's TWO words) with training so it ends up as a normal dog", and don't care if you find that hilarious or not. I have something YOU don't: first-hand, hands-on, LONG-TIME experience with the breed, not what some news story has told me about it. And that question, "who needs a ______(fill in animal of choice)", is probably the stupidest question anyone can ask. What animals do YOU own, jey? Do you NEED them? I can guarantee that there are many people who ask that same question of YOU.
pitbulllady
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I'm trying to remember. The Alsatian was one. Got a super bad rap in the 1950's I thinks. The malamute the other? Didn't Rottys get a bad rap, and Dobies. Seems like every generation has to have a giant testicles demonstration and a new mascot.
No, the word is pitbull. An odd animal that can kill elephants if half the BS of their owners is to believed. The others are known by the euphemism pit bulls but are bull terriers. American Pit Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Bull Terrier etc are the animals with direct lineage to the Engrish or Flench bulldog and a terrier.
The word 'pit' is a black mark on the face of animal husbandry and keeping and a rude insult to people who truly love and respect animals.
One thing that really pisses me off is the treatment of the English bulldog. From my experience, the most jovial, fun loving cheerful breed out there. As puppies, they are next to impossible. 10 times more strength than brains and DEMAND cuddling and romping. Then their inherent problem kicks in. MUCH too overbuilt to have good personal hygiene, chronic halitosis, friendly hellos that commonly knock people over and end up consigned to a lonely life behind a heavy chain link fence in the back yards of the world.
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Hmm should I bite your bait or not? I'm tempted but it will probably get me banned.