non-aggressive subspinipes? sick?

[subsniper]

I have had my subspinipes for about a week now, and he still is acting sort of sluggish. I put a cricket in with him and he seems to be more annoyed by it than anything else. In fact, after the cricket jumped on his head for like the 10th time, he grabbed it as if he were going to eat it, but then after wrestling it around a little, he let it go. No poison was injected, and the cricket is still healthy.

The first couple of days I let the temp drop to nearly 66 degrees F since I didn't have a heater. I also had the humidity pretty low. He started drinking a lot, so I realized that I should increase the humidity a lot. I wet the substrate pretty substantially and misted the enclosure. I also purchased a heat pad which has been keeping the temperature at around 77 degrees. It also is quite humid inside. His behavior, however is still unchanged.

After the temperature increase he became a little more active, but he spends most of the time licking his antenna, legs and anus. He also likes to lick the condensation off the inside of the enclosure. Also, since I increased the humidity, mold has started to grow. I have a feeling that this is just going to add to the problems.

How can I help my centipede? Or is this behavior normal?

Here are the details of my setup:

- 6.5 inch diameter X 10 inch tall plastic jar with 13 small holes drilled in screw on cap.

- large leaves and cork bark used as hide (which he rarely ever uses)

- thermometer

- Grow-Coir soil substrate on bottom layer

- reptile/invert forest mulch on top layer

- 2.5 inch diameter plastic cap for water dish

- mini-size cobra heat mat

- temperature: constant 77 degrees

- humidity: not measured, but probably around 80-90 percent.

 

[danread]

Hi subsniper,

are you still using the same small enclosure that you showed in the other post? This is likely to be the cause of the mold on the cork bark, generally cork bark is very resistant to mold. In a small enclosure such as you are using, it is difficult to keep a decent level of air movement and ventillation, i would strongly suggest moving it to a larger tank, preferably one with a floorspace of at least 12"x8", but the bigger the better. Also make sure the tank has a good airflow with the outside environment. if you find this is drying out the tank, use a bigger waterdish. I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of feeding, although this could be the signs of an animal that is stressed, it is possible it is recovering from being exposed to a low humidity and low temperature for a prolonged period of time. You say that you only got it a week ago? i would give it more time to settle into its' enclosure, if it doesn't want to eat, take the cricket out and leave it a few days before trying again.
Also i think you should be aware that centipedes generally spend the majority of their time hidded away in the soil or under cover, so it is normal to not see it for days at a time, they will usually spend brief periods of activity hunting at night, and then retire back to shelter to rest. It is also possible that is is in premoult, as they tend to be more lethargic and go off their food for a period of time before moulting. I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Dan.

 

[Mister Internet]

I would also add to that...

I royally stressed out my S. heros when I first got him by keeping the substrated TOO WET... the solution for centipedes is NEVER wet substrate... all centipedes, as far as I know, will be just fine on completely dry substrate, as long as you overfill the water dish in a corner, or just make sure the water dish i always full... "humidity" has nothing to do with "wetness". Centipedes need warmth a lot worse than they need dripping wet substrate... if I were you, I would change out to substrate to almost dry peat or peat/verm mix, and just make sure the temp stays up and the water dish stays full... you can mist every now and then, but you don't need to keep it DAMP. keep the temps up and give your pede a few more weeks to adjust before you freak too much...

My heros took almost 2 months before he would eat for me... sometimes it just takes time...

 

[Henry Kane]

You guys make a good point as far as centipedes needing to acclimate sometimes. Especially in a situation where the new enclosure is set up and re set numerous times.
A few of my pedes just settled right in, ate right away and so on but the majority of them took a while to get adjusted. Some even took over a week.
The loss of interest in prey (as mentioned above) could be contributed to either maladjustment or pre-molt. What I have noticed in my pedes though is that even though they (most of them) spend a lot of time hiding, prey will still dissappear by the next day. I figure that when the prey hasn't been taken (after a couple attempts) and the pede is still in hiding, then it's probably in pre-molt.
If your pede has a good hide but remains in open view, I'd guess the problem to be maladjustmet. If that's the case, you should get rid of the moldy substrate immediately. Your pede will not live long in a stagnant environment. A larger enclosure, adequate ventilation as well as a good substrate (like peat/verm mix etc.) should be utilized in addition to the above mentioned advice as far as water/humidity. From there, just leave the centipede be for a few days. After a while, try feeding again. If it still doesn't eat, remove the prey and give it a little more time, then try again and so on.

Best of luck!

Atrax

 

[Henry Kane]

Subsniper,
I just read another post of yours regarding tiny white worms. Have you managed to get rid of that substrate as well? Between that and the mold, your pede is undoubtedly stressed. Especially if the worms have been on the pede itself. Get back to us soon and let us know so we can hopefully get it worked out.

Atrax

 

[subsniper]

Today I went back to the Vivarium where I purchased my pede and asked to talk to the centipede expert there. He told me that he has had many different kinds of tropical pedes and has kept them in a very similar container as mine with a similar setup.

I was about to purchase a much larger plastic critter keeper for my pede, but he advised against it since he said that it could easily escape from that enclosure. He told me that he keeps most of his large pedes in large jars with screw on tops. He also told me that spraying the centipede every other day is fine, and that having high humidity is important for the tropical pedes.

As far as the maggots go, he said that they will not directly affect the health of the pede, but that in high concentrations they could stress it out. He also indicated that a little bit of mold is not a problem. In the end he told me that it is worth waiting it out for another week to let the centipede get used to the new environment.

He suggested that I buy some whole moss to add to the substrate so that my pede could hide underneath it and feel more secure. So far, though, my pede is staying on top of his hide, and off of the substrate entirely. I have heard many conflicting views, and it has made for a confusing decision. I read in some past posts on this board that keeping the vietnamese pedes "dripping wet" is crucial, but others say that it doesnt need to be that wet and that wet substrate is no good. The guy at the store seemed to think that very humid is fine... and that water condensation beading up on the inside is just fine.

Right now I am just waiting, but I am not sure whether this will lead to the death of my pede... I sure hope not.!

 

[Henry Kane]

Well, I'm not exactly an expert but me and the others here correspond fairly regularly with certified experts. The methods we use to keep our pedes are based on the knowledge gained by experts who are known world wide for their studies of these creatures.
Based on the advice given to you by the "expert" at the petstore, I'd wage that he knows less about centipedes than my son. Mold is not ok for your pede. If there's mold in the enclosure (even a little) your pede is not in a healthy environment and will not live long. The fact that the guy says the worms are ok is rediculous. Again, the worms, (even if only a few) will kill your pede. I would've been compelled to ask just how you should go about keeping them off the pede without completely getting rid of them.
High humidity is ok with adequate ventilation. Since you have mold, there's clearly not adequate ventilation. kritter keepers can be an escape risk but there are certainly more enclosure options that will contribute far better to the health of you pede while still minimalizing the risk of escape.

I would recommend against purchasing from that store again, as well as accepting any advice they may give you.

Atrax

 

[danread]

Subsniper,

Atrax is right, under no circumstances should you allow the build-up of mold, mites or any worm type creatures in the centipedes environment. The presence of these is a sure sign the environment in the enclosure is not right, and it's your responsibility as the owner of the pede to do something about it. For my subspinipes i tend to keep the humitity on the high side, but i also allow a decent amount of air flow through the tank. The tank doesn't need to be wet, just have humid air, which can be easily achieved by having a large water bowl. A little bit of condensation on the side of the tank isn't a problem. It's not the high humidity on it's own that is causing the build up of mold in the tank, its the lack of air movement, and this is surely caused by the small enclosure you're keeping it in. I guarantee, move it to a larger tank, change the substrate to a peat/vermiculite mix and you shouldn't have any mold problems. Adding moss to the setup you have already will just increase the mold problem, i've found sphagnum moss to get covered in mold very quickly if there isn't adequate airflow.
If you want some ideas for different setups, just ask, i'm sure people are happy to post pictures of the enclosures they use for their centipedes. Keep us updated.

Regards,

Dan..

 

[Baphomet]

Originally posted by subsniper
Today I went back to the Vivarium where I purchased my pede and asked to talk to the centipede expert there. He told me...

Sounds to me like either a former PETCO employee or a soon-to-be PETCO employee.

The advice posted by many here is indeed the correct advice to follow.

...just goes to show that any moron with a silk-screened shirt with a company logo can qualify as an expert nowadays.

 

[Steven]

If you want some ideas for different setups, just ask, i'm sure people are happy to post pictures of the enclosures they use for their centipedes. Keep us updated.

I'm really intrested in what's the best way to make a healty but very escape proof enclosure, could someone send my some pictures of their scolopednra containers?

I'm gonna buy some scolo's end of may, but first i wonna for sure my setup is perfect

greetz

 

[subsniper]

Okay.... I took your advice and transplanted him to a larger enclosure with peat/vermiculite mix. I also got a humidity gauge. No more mold, no more worms, no more mites. Heat is constantly around 75 degrees. Humidity is about 80%. He has been in this enclosure for several days now, and there is no change whatsoever. He ignores food entirely. He continues to be very lethargic, and seldom moves at all. Today I gently pushed him with my forceps and he flipped over and was on his back with all legs in the air. He laid there like he was almost dead. Finally he slowly rolled back over.

The other thing that I noticed, but forgot to mention is that he has a weird twitch. It seems like about every 20 seconds his tail or mid body twitches while he is sitting there. Everything about his physical appearance seems normal, but that is where the normality stops. Is this premolt behavior? How long is premolt supposed to last?

This is starting to get very frustrating.

subsniper

 

[Mister Internet]

Quite frankly, you're obsessing...

I know he may "seem" unhealthy, but sometimes bugs just go through stages... sometimes bugs just know better than us what they need to do. Pre-molt can last as long as 4 weeks, from some stories I've heard, and you've not had him quite two weeks yet... he's probably still recovering from the trip!

Some things to check on... make sure the substrate is NOT WET. It can be lightly misted, or even slightly moist, but WET is BAD. My heros c. was lethargic for almost two months because water had collected in one of his burrows unknown to me at the time. He was getting soaked, and it seriously stressed him out.

Give him another couple of weeks... and don't worry. Sometimes bugs die... there's not always a reason. I had a beautiful adult female S. polymorpha given to me by a friend, and she was fine for two months, and then all of a sudden, just started moving less and less every day, and then stopped moving entirely. Just up and croaked. Conditions were perfect, no mites, no parasites, plenty of fresh water, great substrate condition, good temp.... sometimes they just succumb, for whatever reason.

Let us know how he's doing in another week or two...

 

[subsniper]

He died

I guess he must have been sick from the start, cause I noticed that weird twitch after I brought him back on the first day, and it never went away. He also wasn't as active as these pedes are apparently supposed to be... maybe I should have taken that as a sign of his sickness. For future reference, should these pedes be really aggressive from the start, despite the stressful trip?

I guess he is just a specimen now... I finally got an accurate measurement - 8 inches long from head to tip of last pair of legs.

Thanks for all the advice and information, everyone.

R.I.P.

 

[Henry Kane]

Sorry to hear it.
Not sure if the place you got it form will compensate you or not but IMO, they owe you. Sounds to me like that pede was problematic before it left the pet store.

A healthy pede will be incredibly active, responsive and defensive to even minimal disturbance.

Atrax

 

[Mister Internet]

subsniper...

sorry to hear of your loss.... you mentioned the "Vivarium" you got it from in an earlier post... if you mean the East Bay Vivarium, then I would expect they would make the situation right... they are good people there. If not , let us all know for sure...

 

[phoenixxavierre]

My condolances on your loss, subsniper.

Sincerely,

Paul