Nicaraguan vs Honduran (hobby) form T albo.

[TechnoGeek]

Does anyone know from experience if there's a distinct difference between these 2? I don't mind either, I only have 1 T albo left and I intend to keep her, although I'm not sure if she's Honduran or Nicaraguan.

A few things I've heard so far:

1. Nicaraguan form better represents wild ones, Honduran is mixed with other species.

2. Nicaraguan are more high strung and skittish, more likely to kick hairs.

3. Some say they're just different locales.

4. If you get a Nicaraguan form you might get a wild caught one.

5. Nicaraguan form is more fluffy, and tends to have more brown or bronze in the carapace (Honduran is mostly black).

Any of this is true?

Here's mine btw:

 

[Arachnophobphile]

Nicaraguan T. albopilosus is the true form meaning clean genetics.

Honduran T. albo used to have a muddy genetic pool in the past. Nowadays who knows.

If you're buying sub-adult to adult T. albopilosus then there is always a chance of it being WC as sad as it is.

Buying slings increases the odds of them being CB but not guaranteed with this species but not entirely the genus.

 

[viper69]

True form? That simply isn’t true

Does anyone know from experience if there's a distinct difference between these 2? I don't mind either, I only have 1 T albo left and I intend to keep her, although I'm not sure if she's Honduran or Nicaraguan.

A few things I've heard so far:

1. Nicaraguan form better represents wild ones, Honduran is mixed with other species.

2. Nicaraguan are more high strung and skittish, more likely to kick hairs.

3. Some say they're just different locales.

4. If you get a Nicaraguan form you might get a wild caught one.

5. Nicaraguan form is more fluffy, and tends to have more brown or bronze in the carapace (Honduran is mostly black).

Any of this is true?

Here's mine btw:

View attachment 449110

View attachment 449111

View attachment 449112

The Nics definitely appear to have longer setae on their legs. Hondurans like mine don’t have that.

Just google within AB you’ll notice the difference instantly.

There are quite a few species where hybrids were made. The Brachy genus is riddled with examples. And a well known former T seller and breeder deliberately made hybrids of another species. Why only a few people have called him out is beyond me.

How do we know this about the former seller- easily he posted it on one of his many web pages.

However how people came to think that all Hondurans are not pure is simply garbage until one proves it with a genetic test.

 

[TechnoGeek]

The Nics definitely appear to have longer setae on their legs. Hondurans like mine don’t have that.

Just google within AB you’ll notice the difference instantly.

There are quite a few species where hybrids were made. The Brachy genus is riddled with examples. And a well known former T seller and breeder deliberately made hybrids of another species. Why only a few people have called him out is beyond me.

How do we know this about the former seller- easily he posted it on one of his many web pages.

However how people came to think that all Hondurans are not pure is simply garbage until one proves it with a genetic test.

Understandable. I can agree with that. Out of curiosity, do you think mine looks like a Nic or a hobby form?

Tbh she's very very chill but I don't think temperament alone means much due to individual variations. I've seen chill OBTs after all

 

[viper69]

Understandable. I can agree with that. Out of curiosity, do you think mine looks like a Nic or a hobby form?

Tbh she's very very chill but I don't think temperament alone means much due to individual variations. I've seen chill OBTs after all

That’s a HONDURAN- using the term hobby form is wrong and perpetuates misinformation

Google their geographic distribution - how do you know it’s not from Costa Rica.

No one calls hamorii - a hobbyform, and we’ve seen hybrids over many years

 

[Arachnophobphile]

Hmmm maybe true form was the wrong term to use seems to cause meltdowns. I don't use hobbyform that word is ridiculous.

I have both of these T. albos and did some reading up on them before I got mine. I know Honduran T. albo's were hybridized in the past. I never got farther than that so couldn't give time frames.

T. albopilosus can be found in Honduras, Nicargua, Costa Rica and on Ometepe Island where the legs have some slight blueness to them.

I love both of mine but the golden colors and longer setae on the Nicarguan is stunning.

 

[cold blood]

do you think mine looks like a Nic or a hobby form?

Yours certainly looks like a Nicaraguan.

And I completely agree, hobby form is not a phrase that should be used, they are Honduran.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

View Figure 44, you have to scroll way down to see this map. Now I'm confused because T. albopilosus doesn't even show found in Honduras. According to Figure 44 they are found on the border of Nicaragua and Costa Rica unless my aging eyes missed it but I did zoom in. Easiest way to find Figure 44 is scroll to the end and go up. Figure 45 is the last one near bottom.

Systematic revision of Mexican threatened tarantulas Brachypelma (Araneae: Theraphosidae: Theraphosinae), with a description of a new genus, and implications on the conservation

Abstract. The tarantula genus Brachypelma includes colourful species that are highly sought after in the commercial pet trade. They are all included in CIT

academic.oup.com

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

View Figure 44, you have to scroll way down to see this map. Now I'm confused because T. albopilosus doesn't even show found in Honduras. According to Figure 44 they are found on the border of Nicaragua and Costa Rica unless my aging eyes missed it but I did zoom in. Easiest way to find Figure 44 is scroll to the end and go up. Figure 45 is the last one near bottom.

Systematic revision of Mexican threatened tarantulas Brachypelma (Araneae: Theraphosidae: Theraphosinae), with a description of a new genus, and implications on the conservation

Abstract. The tarantula genus Brachypelma includes colourful species that are highly sought after in the commercial pet trade. They are all included in CIT

academic.oup.com

I'm so glad you pointed this out because it shows just how nonsensical the terms "Nicaraguan form" and "Honduran form" truly are when it comes to the curly haired tarantulas from Central America. The two terms basically refer to where the most recent imports come from and have nothing to do with their taxonomic status or species identification.

My understanding is that at one point in time long ago, the species T. albopilosus were collected and exported from Costa Rica (as Brachypelma albopilosum) and those were the ones that fit the original taxonomic description of B. albopilosum having long white hairs contrasting with dark brown to black body. The common name for them were the "Costa Rican Curly Hair Tarantula." Then at a later time, imports stopped from Cost Rica and another curly haired tarantula that resembled T. albopilosus started coming from Honduras. The ones from Honduras were different in appearance from T. albopilosus, having golden colored hairs, but the pet trade kept the name Brachypelma albopilosum (= T. albopilosus). Trade in the original Costa Rican curly hairs stopped and were replaced in the hobby with the golden haired ones from Honduras.

For a long time, it seems people involved in the hobby forgot what a Brachypelma albopilosum actually looked like. To make things even worse in the hobby, one or more people tried, and were successful, at making hybrids of Brachypelma vagans and Brachypelma albopilosum (the Honduran ones if I remember correctly) and called them "albovagans." I don't know if those were ever released into the global pet trade, but that is where the idea of the "hobby form" or "hybrid forms" come from. The so-called "albovagans" hybrid were very distinct in appearance looking like a golden haired B. albopilosum but with the red abdominal hairs of B. vagans. Since we don't see those, I am assuming that the hybrid bloodline died out or were never released into the global pet trade, but their notoriety lives on even if people forgot or never knew that happened.

In recent years, imports from Nicaragua reintroduced the white haired T. albopilosus to the pet trade, but it isn't certain where they were actually collected. Maybe they were collected in Costa Rica and exported from Nicaragua, but maybe they were actually collected from somewhere in Nicaragua. Perhaps there are people who know, but no one has yet published any documentation extending the range of T. albopilosus outside of the original location in Costa Rica near the border with Nicaragua. An important clue was the introduction of the ones from Ometepe, which is in Nicaragua, which provides some support that T. albopilosus can be found in Nicaragua as well as in Costa Rica.

So now in the hobby we have curly haired tarantulas that fit the description of T. albopilosus (= Brachypelma albopilosum) that were exported from Nicaragua and another tarantula that resembles that species from Honduras that may or may not be a different, but closely related, species. In my opinion, until these curly haired tarantulas get sorted out the hobby should stop using the terms "Nicaraguan form" and "Honduran form" and start referring to them using names that reflect the uncertainty of where they actually come from along with the published species description. To me, the hobby has T. albopilosus (the white haired ones exported from Nicaragua) and another species that should be called T. sp. "Golden Curly Hair" which come from Honduras and who knows where else. Maybe the "Honduran form" can actually be found in northern Nicaragua, or another Central American country, and if so calling them "Honduran form" would stop making sense.

But I don't think anything other than a published species description that determines the full range of T. albopilosus, and whether it is a wide ranging polymorphic species or two distinct species, will change anything in how they are referred to in the hobby. People really like simple answers over the more complicated and confusing one even if the simple answer is wrong.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

I'm so glad you pointed this out because it shows just how nonsensical the terms "Nicaraguan form" and "Honduran form" truly are when it comes to the curly haired tarantulas from Central America. The two terms basically refer to where the most recent imports come from and have nothing to do with their taxonomic status or species identification.

My understanding is that at one point in time long ago, the species T. albopilosus were collected and exported from Costa Rica (as Brachypelma albopilosum) and those were the ones that fit the original taxonomic description of B. albopilosum having long white hairs contrasting with dark brown to black body. The common name for them were the "Costa Rican Curly Hair Tarantula." Then at a later time, imports stopped from Cost Rica and another curly haired tarantula that resembled T. albopilosus started coming from Honduras. The ones from Honduras were different in appearance from T. albopilosus, having golden colored hairs, but the pet trade kept the name Brachypelma albopilosum (= T. albopilosus). Trade in the original Costa Rican curly hairs stopped and were replaced in the hobby with the golden haired ones from Honduras.

For a long time, it seems people involved in the hobby forgot what a Brachypelma albopilosum actually looked like. To make things even worse in the hobby, one or more people tried, and were successful, at making hybrids of Brachypelma vagans and Brachypelma albopilosum (the Honduran ones if I remember correctly) and called them "albovagans." I don't know if those were ever released into the global pet trade, but that is where the idea of the "hobby form" or "hybrid forms" come from. The so-called "albovagans" hybrid were very distinct in appearance looking like a golden haired B. albopilosum but with the red abdominal hairs of B. vagans. Since we don't see those, I am assuming that the hybrid bloodline died out or were never released into the global pet trade, but their notoriety lives on even if people forgot or never knew that happened.

In recent years, imports from Nicaragua reintroduced the white haired T. albopilosus to the pet trade, but it isn't certain where they were actually collected. Maybe they were collected in Costa Rica and exported from Nicaragua, but maybe they were actually collected from somewhere in Nicaragua. Perhaps there are people who know, but no one has yet published any documentation extending the range of T. albopilosus outside of the original location in Costa Rica near the border with Nicaragua. An important clue was the introduction of the ones from Ometepe, which is in Nicaragua, which provides some support that T. albopilosus can be found in Nicaragua as well as in Costa Rica.

So now in the hobby we have curly haired tarantulas that fit the description of T. albopilosus (= Brachypelma albopilosum) that were exported from Nicaragua and another tarantula that resembles that species from Honduras that may or may not be a different, but closely related, species. In my opinion, until these curly haired tarantulas get sorted out the hobby should stop using the terms "Nicaraguan form" and "Honduran form" and start referring to them using names that reflect the uncertainty of where they actually come from along with the published species description. To me, the hobby has T. albopilosus (the white haired ones exported from Nicaragua) and another species that should be called T. sp. "Golden Curly Hair" which come from Honduras and who knows where else. Maybe the "Honduran form" can actually be found in northern Nicaragua, or another Central American country, and if so calling them "Honduran form" would stop making sense.

But I don't think anything other than a published species description that determines the full range of T. albopilosus, and whether it is a wide ranging polymorphic species or two distinct species, will change anything in how they are referred to in the hobby. People really like simple answers over the more complicated and confusing one even if the simple answer is wrong.

Wow!!! Now that is incredible information and absolutely fascinating. I actually been sitting here with a pounding headache literally from over thinking this especially getting home from work shortly ago.

After I posted that I started thinking were smugglers going into Costa Rica and bringing them back to Honduras to export them out as Honduran B. albopilosum back in the past? Were Nicaraguans going into Costa Rica and doing the same thing? Per Figure 44 it shows T. albopilosus residing mainly right across the border in Costa Rica.

I gave it up because my head is pounding now.

Then I saw you just posted and that is some highly valuable information you just shared that most people don't remember or even know, thank you for all that info

 

[viper69]

As one well known dealer who works with importers etc said “no one knows where their T came from unless they collected it themselves”

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Wow!!! Now that is incredible information and absolutely fascinating. I actually been sitting here with a pounding headache literally from over thinking this especially getting home from work shortly ago.

After I posted that I started thinking were smugglers going into Costa Rica and bringing them back to Honduras to export them out as Honduran B. albopilosum back in the past? Were Nicaraguans going into Costa Rica and doing the same thing? Per Figure 44 it shows T. albopilosus residing mainly right across the border in Costa Rica.

I gave it up because my head is pounding now.

Then I saw you just posted and that is some highly valuable information you just shared that most people don't remember or even know, thank you for all that info

Thanks for the compliment, but I want to be sure you and everyone else reading this understands that my info is speculative and coming from memory which is unreliable. Hence the use of the words "my understanding." I usually don't bother trying to figure out what has happened or is currently happening within the hobby because it makes such a big confusing mess for itself that it isn't even worth trying to figure out.

The story of T. albopilosus (= Brachypelma albopilosum) occurred with another popular Costa Rican species, Aphonopelma seemanni. A. seemanni used to come from Costa Rica but now I don't even know where they are exported from or if they are exported as wild caught anymore at all. All I do know is that A. seemanni is a very distinct- and striking- looking species that is jet black with bold white stripes on its legs with a pale orange underside. It has been replaced one or more times in the pet trade with other species from surrounding Central American countries that resemble it, but don't look exactly like it. I have a feeling not many people in the hobby, other than the "old timers", remember what A. seemanni actually looks like. But like T. albopilosus, those of use who remember the "Costa Rican Stipe Knee Tarantula", or are lucky enough to currently have one, there is no mistaking it for anything else.

 

[viper69]

Thanks for the compliment, but I want to be sure you and everyone else reading this understands that my info is speculative and coming from memory which is unreliable. Hence the use of the words "my understanding." I usually don't bother trying to figure out what has happened or is currently happening within the hobby because it makes such a big confusing mess for itself that it isn't even worth trying to figure out.

The story of T. albopilosus (= Brachypelma albopilosum) occurred with another popular Costa Rican species, Aphonopelma seemanni. A. seemanni used to come from Costa Rica but now I don't even know where they are exported from or if they are exported as wild caught anymore at all. All I do know is that A. seemanni is a very distinct- and striking- looking species that is jet black with bold white stripes on its legs with a pale orange underside. It has been replaced one or more times in the pet trade with other species from surrounding Central American countries that resemble it, but don't look exactly like it. I have a feeling not many people in the hobby, other than the "old timers", remember what A. seemanni actually looks like. But like T. albopilosus, those of use who remember the "Costa Rican Stipe Knee Tarantula", or are lucky enough to currently have one, there is no mistaking it for anything else.

I owned long before Ts were popular.

You may be interested in this site. There are 2 pics, one showing the black body, and a different pic showing the far more common brown colored body

Zebra Tarantula (Striped Knee Tarantula) (Aphonopelma seemanni): Facts, Identifications & Pictures

Zebra tarantula (Striped knee tarantula), how long do they live,what do they eat, do they bite, how do the babies and adults look, what do their webs look, images

spideridentifications.com

And this taken in the field

https://flic.kr/p/2628rCz

 

[TechnoGeek]

Then at a later time, imports stopped from Cost Rica and another curly haired tarantula that resembled T. albopilosus started coming from Honduras. The ones from Honduras were different in appearance from T. albopilosus, having golden colored hairs, but the pet trade kept the name Brachypelma albopilosum (= T. albopilosus).

Very interesting! So the ones with golden hair might be a different species within the same genus?

As one well known dealer who works with importers etc said “no one knows where their T came from unless they collected it themselves”

Very true. There's also the situation with G pulchra and quirogai. If you didn't collect it yourself, the only way to tell the locale (possibly) would be to through DNA analysis.. which I imagine isn't an option for most (if not all) keepers.

Thanks for the compliment, but I want to be sure you and everyone else reading this understands that my info is speculative and coming from memory which is unreliable. Hence the use of the words "my understanding." I usually don't bother trying to figure out what has happened or is currently happening within the hobby because it makes such a big confusing mess for itself that it isn't even worth trying to figure out.

The story of T. albopilosus (= Brachypelma albopilosum) occurred with another popular Costa Rican species, Aphonopelma seemanni. A. seemanni used to come from Costa Rica but now I don't even know where they are exported from or if they are exported as wild caught anymore at all. All I do know is that A. seemanni is a very distinct- and striking- looking species that is jet black with bold white stripes on its legs with a pale orange underside. It has been replaced one or more times in the pet trade with other species from surrounding Central American countries that resemble it, but don't look exactly like it. I have a feeling not many people in the hobby, other than the "old timers", remember what A. seemanni actually looks like. But like T. albopilosus, those of use who remember the "Costa Rican Stipe Knee Tarantula", or are lucky enough to currently have one, there is no mistaking it for anything else.

The other A seemanni you're talking about that's been circulating recently, does it exhibit a blue hue on the legs under direct light?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Very interesting! So the ones with golden hair might be a different species within the same genus?

Might be. We will have to wait until a comprehensive redescription of T. albopilosus is published to know for sure if T. albopilosus is a wide ranging polymorphic species occurring in Costa Rica up to Honduras, or if there are two distinct, but closely related, species with well defined ranges. All I know for sure is people should really stop referring to them as Honduran and Nicaraguan forms because of the former and because no one knows where they actually come from. For all anyone knows the two "forms" overlap in distribution.

Very true. There's also the situation with G pulchra and quirogai. If you didn't collect it yourself, the only way to tell the locale (possibly) would be to through DNA analysis.. which I imagine isn't an option for most (if not all) keepers.

The situation with Grammostola pulchra and G. quirogai is similar in some ways, but different in others. It is different in that the recently published redescription of G. pulchra makes it plainly obvious that what is commonly sold as G. pulchra is something else. What that something else is unknown. Maybe it is G. quirogai or maybe not, but the published description of G. quirogai makes it possible to identify it to species without DNA barcoding. The catch is you need a dead mature male to perform that identification. I'm surprised the redescription of G. pulchra didn't blow up on the internet causing an ID crisis for hobby G. pulchra.

Where the situation is similar is that the full range of G. pulchra is still unknown and we don't know where these "G. pulchra" in the pet trade come from.

The other A seemanni you're talking about that's been circulating recently, does it exhibit a blue hue on the legs under direct light?

This question is hard to respond to because black tarantulas can appear blue under bright direct lights. I know what you are referring to, but I have never been convinced there is a blue form of A. seemanni. The species I was thinking of is called Aphonopelma sp. "Guatemala". It resembles A. seemanni, could have been (or still is) sold as A. seemanni, and there might be other species sold as A. seemanni but because the hobby likes to identify based on pictures of mislabled specimens found on the internet, it is hard to say what species exactly is being traded as A. seemanni. It seems like any dark colored tarantula with white leg stripes and a pale orange underside is considered A. seemanni.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

Thanks for the compliment, but I want to be sure you and everyone else reading this understands that my info is speculative and coming from memory which is unreliable. Hence the use of the words "my understanding." I usually don't bother trying to figure out what has happened or is currently happening within the hobby because it makes such a big confusing mess for itself that it isn't even worth trying to figure out.

The story of T. albopilosus (= Brachypelma albopilosum) occurred with another popular Costa Rican species, Aphonopelma seemanni. A. seemanni used to come from Costa Rica but now I don't even know where they are exported from or if they are exported as wild caught anymore at all. All I do know is that A. seemanni is a very distinct- and striking- looking species that is jet black with bold white stripes on its legs with a pale orange underside. It has been replaced one or more times in the pet trade with other species from surrounding Central American countries that resemble it, but don't look exactly like it. I have a feeling not many people in the hobby, other than the "old timers", remember what A. seemanni actually looks like. But like T. albopilosus, those of use who remember the "Costa Rican Stipe Knee Tarantula", or are lucky enough to currently have one, there is no mistaking it for anything else.

I understand.......I didn't sleep last night as I was having a hard time processing the can of worms I never mean't to open up. I wish I left my phone alone when I came home from work, get a little something to eat, watch a little TV and go to bed.....no.......I just had to stick my stupid nose in like a dumba!@#.

I now understand more than I ever wanted to. As I love animals I never want to contribute to the proliferation, demise and/or complete destruction of any animal in it's habitat and to the animal itself.....yet....I have.

I don't have many T's and it doesn't matter if I only have one and even being captive bred. I contributed by fueling the demand in the tarantula trade.

Now I'm questioning everything. I can name a few well known sellers/breeders that sell WC A. seemanni. I will not refer to them anymore as reputable. One never was reputable just popular and another actually is considered as such.

I recognize the photo @viper69 posted and it so closely resembles a T I had Lasiodorides striatus that is currently being sold. The resemblance is stunning.

Now I fully understand why arachnologist hate the tarantula trade. Everyone knows of smugglers out there in the world. What I'm processing now is on a whole other level.

I know the members here on AB love animals and love tarantulas but only those members who have been in the trade for decades on end know the exact truth. What I just tripped over and fell on my face on has now left me permanently scarred for life.

This doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I understand.......I didn't sleep last night as I was having a hard time processing the can of worms I never mean't to open up. I wish I left my phone alone when I came home from work, get a little something to eat, watch a little TV and go to bed.....no.......I just had to stick my stupid nose in like a dumba!@#.

I now understand more than I ever wanted to. As I love animals I never want to contribute to the proliferation, demise and/or complete destruction of any animal in it's habitat and to the animal itself.....yet....I have.

I don't have many T's and it doesn't matter if I only have one and even being captive bred. I contributed by fueling the demand in the tarantula trade.

Now I'm questioning everything. I can name a few well known sellers/breeders that sell WC A. seemanni. I will not refer to them anymore as reputable. One never was reputable just popular and another actually is considered as such.

I recognize the photo @viper69 posted and it so closely resembles a T I had Lasiodorides striatus that is currently being sold. The resemblance is stunning.

Now I fully understand why arachnologist hate the tarantula trade. Everyone knows of smugglers out there in the world. What I'm processing now is on a whole other level.

I know the members here on AB love animals and love tarantulas but only those members who have been in the trade for decades on end know the exact truth. What I just tripped over and fell on my face on has now left me permanently scarred for life.

This doesn't sit well with me.

Hard to say what the brown A. seemanni is exactly a hybrid a color morph ?? only those who collected them knows the location ofc.
And does being brown as juvies mean it’s that color form the lighter one? Or can they darken with age ??
Odds are they’re gene compatible species .
unfortunately even some online venders jumped on the wc bandwagon so it’s not just Pet stores were the brown wc A. seemanni Is sold and the ones that look alike .
And people are going to buy wc regardless of if everyone on here was to avoid them . Until their wild population is depleted like the Mexican red knee and most pokies . And now endangered or gone mostly .

 

[LucN]

Given for how long T. albo has been available and known to science, I must say I'm actually surprised this wasn't addressed in the Brachypelma/Tliltocatl taxonomic revision several years back. Somebody needs to go to Honduras and see whether these "Golden Curly Hairs" are truly found there. For all we know, this could be a case of several geographic/color variants like in G. rosea. Or is that case still not resolved too ?

I'm gonna stop here before I open another can of worms.

 

[viper69]

Given for how long T. albo has been available and known to science, I must say I'm actually surprised this wasn't addressed in the Brachypelma/Tliltocatl taxonomic revision several years back. Somebody needs to go to Honduras and see whether these "Golden Curly Hairs" are truly found there. For all we know, this could be a case of several geographic/color variants like in G. rosea. Or is that case still not resolved too ?

I'm gonna stop here before I open another can of worms.

Without genetic tests does one ever really know what they own..........

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Given for how long T. albo has been available and known to science, I must say I'm actually surprised this wasn't addressed in the Brachypelma/Tliltocatl taxonomic revision several years back. Somebody needs to go to Honduras and see whether these "Golden Curly Hairs" are truly found there. For all we know, this could be a case of several geographic/color variants like in G. rosea. Or is that case still not resolved too ?

I'm gonna stop here before I open another can of worms.

The revision you refer to was concerning the genus Brachypelma. Since there were species included in that genus- such as Brachypelma vagans and B. albopilosum- that needed to be separated into a new one, the genus Tliltocatl was created to "house" them. A separate revision of the genus Tliltocatl will be needed to sort those out and to provide a dichotomous key to the species.

As for Grammostola rosea, that will need additional work to resolve the status of that species and to determine if there are additional "rose hair" species. It is not resolved. The G. rosea/ G. porteri situation is another hobby created confusing mess, but for that one it isn't totally the fault of those involved in the pet trade. G. rosea has a very long and complicated taxonomic history where no one who studied them could agree on how to define that species. The hobby in general made it even more confusing by assigning the species G. porteri to the "rose hairs" that are light in color and G. rosea to the red ones. When G. porteri was recently made a synonym of G. rosea, the hobby just assumed the specimens used in the study were the same ones floating around the pet trade. That was/is faulty thinking.

Without genetic tests does one ever really know what they own..........

What are these genetic tests you refer to from time to time that will allow us to identify the species of tarantulas we own?