New snake!

[Crone Returns]

Oh I've been researching those guys like crazy for the past few months. I want one, but they aren't native here and it seems no one is selling. I did find someone that'd be willing to get one for me though, so all I gotta do now is wait.

A terrarium... let's see, I'm gonna do a topsoil substrate with two hides, one moist, one dry and leaf litter on top of the topsoil. Maybe some moss near the water dish and maybe another dish next to the water dish where I'll place food. Either that or take the snake out and feed it in a separate container. I'll be adding springtails as well, to keep it a little cleaner.



Oh and there's this for garters...:
http://www.gartersnake.info/care/feeding.php

"Goldfish should be avoided at all costs; it’s essentially a junk fish with poor nutritive value. And other species of fish contain an enzyme called thiaminase, which destroys vitamin B1 (thiamin) and gives your snake a potentially fatal vitamin deficiency"

That was GREAT information. Thank you. My heart's set on the S. dekayi. I don't think they're out here, so I'll use your source!!!
The way you're setting up the terrarium is similar to what I was thinking. I'll get a water dish that it could slink into. My now deceased california kingsnake used to slink in and out of her waterdish. It was fun to watch.
Thank you very much for the info.
I never liked goldfish anyway!!

 

[Crone Returns]

There is a huge difference between snakes that feed exclusively on those prey items and forcing a mammal-eating snake to only eat those items (;

Gotcha.

 

[Crone Returns]

I'd actually rather do frozen/thawed mice, but my parents are very strict: no mice! So S. dekayi for me!

Well that's hard. I'd let my grandkinds have feeder mice for their snake. As long as they take care of their pets

 

[BobBarley]

That was GREAT information. Thank you. My heart's set on the S. dekayi. I don't think they're out here, so I'll use your source!!!
The way you're setting up the terrarium is similar to what I was thinking. I'll get a water dish that it could slink into. My now deceased california kingsnake used to slink in and out of her waterdish. It was fun to watch.
Thank you very much for the info.
I never liked goldfish anyway!!

Here are the links I bookmarked lol...
https://opinicon.wordpress.com/species-accounts/brown_snake/

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/6307-my-little-brown-snake-storeria-dekayi.html
(Thamnophis.com is offline right now though)

The guy sourcing it for me isn't exactly a breeder or dealer or anything, he just keeps herps and happens to be in an area where Storeria dekayi occur. I'd try to contact anyone you know that likes herps that live around the easternish parts (there are mentions of where S. dekayi occur in the first link above) of the US. From what I read, they are quite common within their range. If he finds collects any extra, I'll let you know!

 

[Crone Returns]

Here are the links I bookmarked lol...
https://opinicon.wordpress.com/species-accounts/brown_snake/

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/6307-my-little-brown-snake-storeria-dekayi.html
(Thamnophis.com is offline right now though)

The guy sourcing it for me isn't exactly a breeder or dealer or anything, he just keeps herps and happens to be in an area where Storeria dekayi occur. I'd try to contact anyone you know that likes herps that live around the easternish parts (there are mentions of where S. dekayi occur in the first link above) of the US. From what I read, they are quite common within their range. If he finds collects any extra, I'll let you know!

Thanks!! Don't know anybody back east. But there will probably be a reptile con in the spring.
But...yeah, I foresee major damage to my bank acct....
Oh, well!

 

[magicmed]

2 more sneeekies yesterday, this girl and her identical brother. about the same age as the hypo diffused pair I got last time

 

[Crone Returns]

View attachment 223560

2 more sneeekies yesterday, this girl and her identical brother. about the same age as the hypo diffused pair I got last time

Very cute. I'm planning on getting a Dekay's brown snake maybe next April.
Stop torturing me!

 

[sschind]

Eeewwww. Actually I think when I get mine, I'll stick to nightcrawlers with a touch of supers and a goldie or two. Gotta think how to rig up a goldie tank.

SO CUTE! But I cannot wait to get my Everglades Ratsnake out of the pinkie stage.. there just cannot be all that much nutrition on an animal that drank milk for a day or two before dying LOL
Do you mean goldfish? They are HORRIBLE feeder animals.

Keeping a snake on anything else with ZERO mammal food is asking for a malnourished snake.

From what I was reading about the little brown snake and the garters is that they eat worms, minnows, locusts. Correct if they're wrong, magicmed.

99.9% of any S. dekayi you are going to find is going to be a wild caught snake. About the best you could probably hope for is someone who has captive born babies from a wild caught female. No one breeds them because there is no demand for them and the babies are super tiny and can be very difficult to get feeding. They are interesting snakes but much more difficult to feed than most rodent eating colubrids. A lot of them will take small earthworms but I've had a few that preferred slugs. I've kept a few short term and have never had luck getting them to take any other insects and that includes the larvae (mealworms, superworms, wax worms etc)

Garter snakes will usually take worms and minnows readily but not so much the locusts (at least in my experience) If you are considering them signing up at Thamnophis.com is a must as is reading up on the whole feeder fish debate. An occasional goldfish is probably not going to hurt but you don't want them being the staple diet. There are sources for CBB garters as they are gaining in popularity but still lag far behind corns and kings and such. Checkered garters may be the easiest of the genus to keep. They will switch to rodents readily if you so desire but they can also be maintained on a diet of fish and worms as well.

There are several other snakes that can be maintained on a zero mammal diet but its much more difficult. Hognose snakes can be kept on a diet of frogs and toads but they can be difficult to provide and are just as objectionable to most people. Green snakes (rough are easier than smooth) are insectivores and will take crickets but need special care and supplementation and may need UV light which other snakes do not.

If you are dead set against the rodent thing but still want a snake I would suggest looking into the garter snakes. IMO they are much easier to maintain than the brown snakes.

 

[Crone Returns]

99.9% of any S. dekayi you are going to find is going to be a wild caught snake. About the best you could probably hope for is someone who has captive born babies from a wild caught female. No one breeds them because there is no demand for them and the babies are super tiny and can be very difficult to get feeding. They are interesting snakes but much more difficult to feed than most rodent eating colubrids. A lot of them will take small earthworms but I've had a few that preferred slugs. I've kept a few short term and have never had luck getting them to take any other insects and that includes the larvae (mealworms, superworms, wax worms etc)

Garter snakes will usually take worms and minnows readily but not so much the locusts (at least in my experience) If you are considering them signing up at Thamnophis.com is a must as is reading up on the whole feeder fish debate. An occasional goldfish is probably not going to hurt but you don't want them being the staple diet. There are sources for CBB garters as they are gaining in popularity but still lag far behind corns and kings and such. Checkered garters may be the easiest of the genus to keep. They will switch to rodents readily if you so desire but they can also be maintained on a diet of fish and worms as well.

There are several other snakes that can be maintained on a zero mammal diet but its much more difficult. Hognose snakes can be kept on a diet of frogs and toads but they can be difficult to provide and are just as objectionable to most people. Green snakes (rough are easier than smooth) are insectivores and will take crickets but need special care and supplementation and may need UV light which other snakes do not.

If you are dead set against the rodent thing but still want a snake I would suggest looking into the garter snakes. IMO they are much easier to maintain than the brown snakes.

Thank you so much for all that info. I hadn't given much thought about wild caught snakes. I thought they were bred like Ts. I'll certainly look into that website. Also, I'm not completely against rodent feeding, I'd just prefer not to do that often.
I'll check that site. Thanks again!

 

[Crone Returns]

99.9% of any S. dekayi you are going to find is going to be a wild caught snake. About the best you could probably hope for is someone who has captive born babies from a wild caught female. No one breeds them because there is no demand for them and the babies are super tiny and can be very difficult to get feeding. They are interesting snakes but much more difficult to feed than most rodent eating colubrids. A lot of them will take small earthworms but I've had a few that preferred slugs. I've kept a few short term and have never had luck getting them to take any other insects and that includes the larvae (mealworms, superworms, wax worms etc)

Garter snakes will usually take worms and minnows readily but not so much the locusts (at least in my experience) If you are considering them signing up at Thamnophis.com is a must as is reading up on the whole feeder fish debate. An occasional goldfish is probably not going to hurt but you don't want them being the staple diet. There are sources for CBB garters as they are gaining in popularity but still lag far behind corns and kings and such. Checkered garters may be the easiest of the genus to keep. They will switch to rodents readily if you so desire but they can also be maintained on a diet of fish and worms as well.

There are several other snakes that can be maintained on a zero mammal diet but its much more difficult. Hognose snakes can be kept on a diet of frogs and toads but they can be difficult to provide and are just as objectionable to most people. Green snakes (rough are easier than smooth) are insectivores and will take crickets but need special care and supplementation and may need UV light which other snakes do not.

If you are dead set against the rodent thing but still want a snake I would suggest looking into the garter snakes. IMO they are much easier to maintain than the brown snakes.

Op sschind! Every time I enter that garter snake site, google flattens me. At first I thought it was because I wasn't a member. I registered, getting into the site as the link was posted by another OP.
Now I can't get in the normal (for me) way.

 

[Crone Returns]

View attachment 223560

2 more sneeekies yesterday, this girl and her identical brother. about the same age as the hypo diffused pair I got last time

Er...what does "hypo diffused" mean?

 

[BobBarley]

99.9% of any S. dekayi you are going to find is going to be a wild caught snake. About the best you could probably hope for is someone who has captive born babies from a wild caught female. No one breeds them because there is no demand for them and the babies are super tiny and can be very difficult to get feeding. They are interesting snakes but much more difficult to feed than most rodent eating colubrids. A lot of them will take small earthworms but I've had a few that preferred slugs. I've kept a few short term and have never had luck getting them to take any other insects and that includes the larvae (mealworms, superworms, wax worms etc)

Garter snakes will usually take worms and minnows readily but not so much the locusts (at least in my experience) If you are considering them signing up at Thamnophis.com is a must as is reading up on the whole feeder fish debate. An occasional goldfish is probably not going to hurt but you don't want them being the staple diet. There are sources for CBB garters as they are gaining in popularity but still lag far behind corns and kings and such. Checkered garters may be the easiest of the genus to keep. They will switch to rodents readily if you so desire but they can also be maintained on a diet of fish and worms as well.

There are several other snakes that can be maintained on a zero mammal diet but its much more difficult. Hognose snakes can be kept on a diet of frogs and toads but they can be difficult to provide and are just as objectionable to most people. Green snakes (rough are easier than smooth) are insectivores and will take crickets but need special care and supplementation and may need UV light which other snakes do not.

If you are dead set against the rodent thing but still want a snake I would suggest looking into the garter snakes. IMO they are much easier to maintain than the brown snakes.

Are Dekay's really that hard? I was going to get night crawlers from Walmart or some bait shop and keep them in a small composting container, so they can breed and I can feed them off. I'm probably also going to collect some slugs to keep in with the worms (after a generation or two in case of pesticides) and breed those as well. Is there anything wrong with WC Dekay's?

I appreciate the info and I hope I'm not sounding snobbish, lol I'm asking genuine questions.

 

[magicmed]

Er...what does "hypo diffused" mean?

I'm new to color morphs, but that's the genetics of the red/gray snakes. the breeder called them "hypo diffused, het blood red motley" 'het' meaning it's a carrier of the blood red motley pattern but doesn't show the patterns. but it's offspring may display it. if I'm not mistaken.

"Snow" was simply what he called the white/pink ones. the parents of them were very bright white, so I'm excited for colors to come in.

 

[sschind]

Are Dekay's really that hard? I was going to get night crawlers from Walmart or some bait shop and keep them in a small composting container, so they can breed and I can feed them off. I'm probably also going to collect some slugs to keep in with the worms (after a generation or two in case of pesticides) and breed those as well. Is there anything wrong with WC Dekay's?

I appreciate the info and I hope I'm not sounding snobbish, lol I'm asking genuine questions.

No problem with the questions. A lot of night crawlers are going to be as big if not bigger than your dekays snakes. Males reach about 8 inches and females hardly a foot. Earthworms might be better than nightcrawlers and easier to breed. I've seen large nightcrawlers pulling small snakes around their cages as they were swallowed, its really sort of comical in a way.

It's not so much that they are that hard to keep, they are just pretty particular in their needs. if you can give them what they need they can be quite forgiving. I caught a gravid female one spring and kept her for about a year. She had 12 very tiny babies that I let go as soon as they hatched, or should I say were born, except I kept 2 of them to see if I could get them to eat, I couldn't and let them go after about a month.

Like I said, chances are you will get a WC one. I'd suggest a female as they get a little bigger but if you get one in the spring it may very well be gravid when you get it and you won't be able to release the babies so a male may be a better choice, or get a female later in the season. Personally I don't have an issue with people keeping WC animals as long as they are not threatened or endangered in any way and as far as I know that is not the case with dekay's and as long as they can give them what they need.

Keep trying the website. Its primarily a garter snake site but dekays are closely related, at least in that they are livebearers and their diets tend to be similar so there are people there who can help you out I am sure. I used to be a regular there but since I lost my last garters several years back I'm a very infrequent visitor. They are still up and active though as I checked just before I posted this to be sure.

Any other questions just ask or PM me.

 

[sschind]

I'm new to color morphs, but that's the genetics of the red/gray snakes. the breeder called them "hypo diffused, het blood red motley" 'het' meaning it's a carrier of the blood red motley pattern but doesn't show the patterns. but it's offspring may display it. if I'm not mistaken.

"Snow" was simply what he called the white/pink ones. the parents of them were very bright white, so I'm excited for colors to come in.

hypo means a reduced black pigment, not absent like an albino (amelanistic or lacking black pigment technically) Blood reds will eventually turn a pure crimson red and lose all pattern over the course of 4 or 5 years or so. Diffused simply means they will lose their pattern so blood red is considered a diffused gene. You are correct on the "het" thing. Het,or heterozygous animals carry the gene but it will not show, if they are bred with another "het" animal or an animal that is showing the gene then some of the babies may show it as well.

Your snows are the offspring of amelanistic (lacking black pigment) and anerythristic (lacking red pigment) parents which means they will me mostly pure white. Some snows have a bit of yellow that creeps in at about 6 moths of age.

I haven't really kept up on corn snake genetics other than the basic dominant/recessive and co dominant morphs so I am not really sure how a lot of the multiple gene snakes express themselves but the snows were one of the earliest morphs to come about, shortly after the amels and anerys that is. They have been around for quite a while now,

 

[magicmed]

hypo means a reduced black pigment, not absent like an albino (amelanistic or lacking black pigment technically) Blood reds will eventually turn a pure crimson red and lose all pattern over the course of 4 or 5 years or so. Diffused simply means they will lose their pattern so blood red is considered a diffused gene. You are correct on the "het" thing. Het,or heterozygous animals carry the gene but it will not show, if they are bred with another "het" animal or an animal that is showing the gene then some of the babies may show it as well.

Your snows are the offspring of amelanistic (lacking black pigment) and anerythristic (lacking red pigment) parents which means they will me mostly pure white. Some snows have a bit of yellow that creeps in at about 6 moths of age.

I haven't really kept up on corn snake genetics other than the basic dominant/recessive and co dominant morphs so I am not really sure how a lot of the multiple gene snakes express themselves but the snows were one of the earliest morphs to come about, shortly after the amels and anerys that is. They have been around for quite a while now,

Great info thank you very much! I actually got to see the parents of both clutches, the breeder was more than happy to show off all his snakes haha. the female was totally snow white, the male was white but had a little more grayish of a shadow where patterning would normally be seen, and just a smidgen of yellow like you said. can't wait to see what they all look like when they grow up

 

[dragonfire1577]

I saw someone mention yellow showing up on snow corns so here's mine, she's a little over 3 feet currently and is a decent example of yellow marking on a snow.