New pink toe owner, she’s in a death curl

[Smotzer]

A

Sorry @Smotzer but no, humidity can't kill anything, the real culprit in case it was the reason, it would be the lack of ventilation.

If that was true, hundreds of avics that live in vivariums with RH over 80s would be dead, and they thrive like a champs.


They do need humidity like every species, BUT THEY CAN'T WITHSTAND STAGNANT STUFFY CONDITIONS. This is what kills them, not high humidity.

You can keep them with high humidity and high ventilation without a single problem, and this has been proven all day long.

You can't keep them with very high humidity and very low ventilation, the same way you can't keep them with low humidity and very high ventilation (with dry air). It's all about balance. People that believe that they are keeping them dry simply because there is no moisture in the substrate, place a hygrometer inside and check what a water dish alone can do. A lot will be surprised finding numbers around or close to 60s.

Stigmatizing humidity when in fact it's not the culprit, does a weak favor to the hobby. There is no issue measuring humidity, it's a good tool to have an aproximate idea about the conditions inside, but one should not chase those numbers blindly. As simple as that.

Also suggesting to decrease humidity not knowing his/her in house conditions, it's a mistake a lot of people make. The best suggestion would be to raise ventilation (drilling some holes down low), since those enclosures have a very inefficient system. And if you place them inside another tank, even less.

Raising ventilation alone should solve the issue if the cause were the stagnant stuffy conditons inside. And in case his/her room conditions were dry, the enclosure would protect the T.

you go off on far too big tangets for me to even respond you miss the point that it was his desire to keep it at 70-80% humidity in that specific enclosure that led to its decline. No one is vilanizing humidity but it led to the stagnant conditions I am sorry if you can’t see the fact that humidity was indeed a factor here. You can defend it all you want but in some cases, yes indeed, humidity in specific enclosures is overdone! All I know is I have had far more success with Aviculariinae on dry substrate and I’m not going to accept that adding in the concept of humidity with Aviculariinae doesn’t needlessly complicate their husbandry, because it does. I don’t even know if you keep Aviculariinae in the first place but I do. There’s a time and a place for the humidity debate, but the OP’s thread where stuffy moist conditions led to its demise is not one of them. He needs it to be simplified not complicated.

 

[curtisgiganteus]

Can anyone explain this? I've never seen a reasonable explanation on why. Lack of oxygen?

@hopecore how's your spider? Looks pretty well deceased in the picture. Any luck?

It’s basically creating a sauna with no ventilation. Gets real hard to breathe. Since Ts lungs are external they are affected significantly more by heavy concentrations of ANYTHING in the airspace around them.

 

[Dorifto]

All I know is I have had far more success with Aviculariinae on dry substrate and I’m not going to accept that adding in the concept of humidity with Aviculariinae doesn’t needlessly complicate their husbandry, because it does

Bingo, this doesn't mean that it's not humid, for some reason it looks that stateside there is something that prevents people to understand it, humidity not always go hand in hand with substrate's moisture level, does moist substrate help with humidity? Yes, it's the only way to provide it? NO

You don't necessarily need moist or damp substrates to keep them humid, in most cases, using relative small enclosures, a simple water dish could or will provide it.

It's all about balance, between your setup and your climatic conditions, simple.

And like I mentioned before, actually don't keep any avic, and with the new laws that are going to enter this 2023, probably never will, or at least not legally... I'm hope that they will change that law, because it's a complete nonsense, even hamsters will be banned...

Can anyone explain this? I've never seen a reasonable explanation on why. Lack of oxygen?

I asked a zoologist, but also an avid T keeper that keeps her Ts in real bioative vivariums, usually with high humidity conditions. Hope she give us a more cientific approach.

My bet? That there isn't or they haven't a great oxygen exchange with high humidity and with very low ventilation situations.

Even if they come from a very humid climate, there is a great air flow around them. And this is the key.

Increasing RH (water vapour (gas)) to higher levels, we are decreasing/displacing other gases around, oxygen included, so it will be quite understandeable to have difficulties oxygenating their bodies with a rudimentary system like book lungs. While this wouldn't be an issue at higher oxygen exchange situations (higher ventilation) it could be an issue in low ventilation ones.


Solution? To keep them on the drier side (more oxygen available) or to increase air flow. Drier side, not fully dry.

Dry substrate+a water dish it's not dry, in fact, it could be quite humid, and with a lack of ventilation it can even reach saturation points (100RH). People should understand this.