New boa

DeathsPyro12

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
194
Okay so it is actually a pair. :) My new 1:1 pair of Nicaraguan Red tail boa.

Females tail.


Female.


Male and female.
 

Redneck

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
1,393
Congrats on the new additions.. They are gorgeous!
 

pitbulllady

Arachnoking
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May 1, 2004
Messages
2,290
Nice-looking Nics, but I'm a Boa "connoisseur", and Nics aren't "Red-Tails", no matter what the seller might call them. They are Boa constrictor imperator, while true red-tailed Boas are Boa constrictor constrictor. Red-Tailed Boas are native to east of the Andes Mountains, while BCI's are native to east of the Andes, and there are some major differences between them, in terms of color, pattern, and care requirements, so it's not just a matter of symantics. For me, calling every Boa a "Red-Tail" is like calling every short-haired, muscular dog a "pit bull"; it's a catch-phrase that has been too-widely used.

I"m assuming that the smaller of the two snakes is the male, since males are typically smaller. He's got some nice pattern abberancies going on that look very "Jungle-ish". Do you know if that has been proven out as genetic or not?

pitbulllady
 

Bengal21

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
42
They are Boa constrictor imperator, while true red-tailed Boas are Boa constrictor constrictor. Red-Tailed Boas are native to east of the Andes Mountains, while BCI's are native to east of the Andes, and there are some major differences between them, in terms of color, pattern, and care requirements, so it's not just a matter of symantics.

pitbulllady


Hmmm, which of the two is native to West of the Andes{D
 

pitbulllady

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
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Messages
2,290
Hmmm, which of the two is native to West of the Andes{D
TRUE Red-Tailed Boas, Boa constrictor constrictor, are found east of the Andes Mountains. The Brazilian BCC's, the Surinames, the Guyanas-those are the Red-Tails. Colombian, Mexicans, and all Central American Boas are Boa constrictor imperator, or Common Boas, and are native to west of the Andes Mts. I actually have a pictorial tutorial on here somewhere, showing the differences in pattern and coloration, which is quite drastic, but there are also differences in scale pattern and size, behavior, etc. I've had several Nics, and of course many, many Colombians, both normal and morphs, and I also have Surinames and have had Guyanans and Brazilians, and there is quite a few noticeable differences, right down to the texture of their skin when you hold them and the size of food items they can eat.
Initially, most Boa imports were from Brazil, and those WERE Red-Tailed Boas. Then, Brazil stopped exporting them to the US, and Colombian animal exporters began shipping BCI's over here to cash in on the demand for Boas in the pet trade, and pet shops and wholesalers started calling those "Colombian Red-Tailed Boas". Eventually, EVERYTHING that fell under the Boa constrictor genus and species came to be labeled "Red-Tailed" Boas by the pet trade, whether or not they had red tails(and the real ones DO, not brownish or orangish tails, but velvety RED) or were of the same subspecies as the ones originally sold as "Brazilian Red-Tailed Boas". Again, I use the analogy of people referring to every short-haired, muscular dog as American Pit Bull Terriers or "pit bulls", when there is only ONE breed of American Pit Bull Terrier, and people who are passionate about that breed and know and understand it know this. There is nothing WRONG with an American Bully Dog, just as there is nothing wrong with a Colombian or a Nicaraguan or a Mexican Boa, but it's not an APBT, just like those aren't "Red-Tailed Boas".

pitbulllady
 

DrJ

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
588
Nice-looking Nics, but I'm a Boa "connoisseur", and Nics aren't "Red-Tails", no matter what the seller might call them. They are Boa constrictor imperator, while true red-tailed Boas are Boa constrictor constrictor.
That would be why those of us more familiar with boas refer to our BCC as True Red-Tails instead of Red-Tails. In today's age, Red-Tail simply means you are looking at a BCI. This is just common language for those not as familiar with all the lingo, terminology and what-not.

However, you make a good judgement in saying to be leery of pet-stores. They often-times have not a clue as to what they are talking about. And, they often mislabel their animals. I once had to correct a store owner that just because a Kenyan Sand Boa is a "boa", does not make it a "red-tail". LOL! But, that same store also had their BCI labeled as a Burmese...I spent a good couple hours trying to explain things, and we eventually got everything properly labeled.

Mr. Death...those are gorgeous nics, by the way! What are their temperaments like?
 

jere000

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
106
I"m assuming that the smaller of the two snakes is the male, since males are typically smaller. He's got some nice pattern abberancies going on that look very "Jungle-ish". Do you know if that has been proven out as genetic or not?

pitbulllady
Jungle was proven genetic a long time ago.I wouldn't call him a jungle though unless he was actually the offspring of a jungle which I doubt because I don't think to many people have bred jungle into CA boas.He's just a nice normal with aberrancies.I could have misunderstood what you said to.
 

pitbulllady

Arachnoking
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Joined
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Messages
2,290
Jungle was proven genetic a long time ago.I wouldn't call him a jungle though unless he was actually the offspring of a jungle which I doubt because I don't think to many people have bred jungle into CA boas.He's just a nice normal with aberrancies.I could have misunderstood what you said to.
Yes, I think that you did misunderstand what I said. I'm very aware that the Jungle gene in Colombian Boas has been proven to be a co-dominant genetic trait, HOWEVER, that same exact gene has cropped up in more than one line of Colombian Boas, and yes, people HAVE bred this into CA Boas, and into Suriname and Guyana Boas as well. The same(or probably the same, as it behaves the exact same way)mutation has also been identified in wild-caught imported true Red-Tailed Boas, especially those from Suriname, and in Bolivian Boa constrictor amaralli. I know a lot of people won't call it "Jungle" unless it can be traced back to the first Boas out of Sweden in which that trait was proven to be a co-dominant morph, but just like the merle and brindle genes(also co-dominant genetic pattern mutations)occur in many different and unrelated dog breeds, this same mutations shows up in many different bloodlines and sub-species of Boa. As I did state, the owner of this particular snake won't know if this snake is actually a "Jungle", or just an abberantly-patterned individual, until he breeds it. IF he gets offspring that exhibit the same traits, then he can be reasonably assured that the trait is not only genetic, but also dominant, if the female doesn't show it, so for all practical intent and purposes, this makes it a "Jungle" Ca Boa. Since pattern abberancies in snakes can be due to factors like temperatures while the mother was gravid, you have to prove the trait through breeding when dealing with an animal of unknown genetic history.

pitbulllady
 

jere000

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
106
Yes, I think that you did misunderstand what I said. I'm very aware that the Jungle gene in Colombian Boas has been proven to be a co-dominant genetic trait, HOWEVER, that same exact gene has cropped up in more than one line of Colombian Boas, and yes, people HAVE bred this into CA Boas, and into Suriname and Guyana Boas as well. The same(or probably the same, as it behaves the exact same way)mutation has also been identified in wild-caught imported true Red-Tailed Boas, especially those from Suriname, and in Bolivian Boa constrictor amaralli. I know a lot of people won't call it "Jungle" unless it can be traced back to the first Boas out of Sweden in which that trait was proven to be a co-dominant morph, but just like the merle and brindle genes(also co-dominant genetic pattern mutations)occur in many different and unrelated dog breeds, this same mutations shows up in many different bloodlines and sub-species of Boa. As I did state, the owner of this particular snake won't know if this snake is actually a "Jungle", or just an abberantly-patterned individual, until he breeds it. IF he gets offspring that exhibit the same traits, then he can be reasonably assured that the trait is not only genetic, but also dominant, if the female doesn't show it, so for all practical intent and purposes, this makes it a "Jungle" Ca Boa. Since pattern abberancies in snakes can be due to factors like temperatures while the mother was gravid, you have to prove the trait through breeding when dealing with an animal of unknown genetic history.

pitbulllady
Unless it's directly from a line of jungles then it's not a jungle.I know people have bred jungle into CA boas they just haven't done it very often yet.I have not heard of any mutation like that being imported from any Bcc or Bca, yes it's been proven Co Dominant but super jungles have yet to be proven fertile.
 

Bengal21

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
42
TRUE Red-Tailed Boas, Boa constrictor constrictor, are found east of the Andes Mountains. The Brazilian BCC's, the Surinames, the Guyanas-those are the Red-Tails. Colombian, Mexicans, and all Central American Boas are Boa constrictor imperator, or Common Boas, and are native to west of the Andes Mts. I actually have a pictorial tutorial on here somewhere, showing the differences in pattern and coloration, which is quite drastic, but there are also differences in scale pattern and size, behavior, etc. I've had several Nics, and of course many, many Colombians, both normal and morphs, and I also have Surinames and have had Guyanans and Brazilians, and there is quite a few noticeable differences, right down to the texture of their skin when you hold them and the size of food items they can eat.
Initially, most Boa imports were from Brazil, and those WERE Red-Tailed Boas. Then, Brazil stopped exporting them to the US, and Colombian animal exporters began shipping BCI's over here to cash in on the demand for Boas in the pet trade, and pet shops and wholesalers started calling those "Colombian Red-Tailed Boas". Eventually, EVERYTHING that fell under the Boa constrictor genus and species came to be labeled "Red-Tailed" Boas by the pet trade, whether or not they had red tails(and the real ones DO, not brownish or orangish tails, but velvety RED) or were of the same subspecies as the ones originally sold as "Brazilian Red-Tailed Boas". Again, I use the analogy of people referring to every short-haired, muscular dog as American Pit Bull Terriers or "pit bulls", when there is only ONE breed of American Pit Bull Terrier, and people who are passionate about that breed and know and understand it know this. There is nothing WRONG with an American Bully Dog, just as there is nothing wrong with a Colombian or a Nicaraguan or a Mexican Boa, but it's not an APBT, just like those aren't "Red-Tailed Boas".

pitbulllady

I was just kidding, I guess I could have read it wrong, but I was pointing out that you said both are from east of the Andes. Did you mean to say west in one of those two groups?
 

pitbulllady

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
May 1, 2004
Messages
2,290
I was just kidding, I guess I could have read it wrong, but I was pointing out that you said both are from east of the Andes. Did you mean to say west in one of those two groups?
Yes, I did, typo on my part. Thank you for catching it; even teachers need proof-readers!

pitbulllady
 

Bengal21

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
42
No worries. I knew one was east and one was west. My geography is terrible. After looking at a map, there's not a whole lot of room west of the Andes.
 

pitbulllady

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
May 1, 2004
Messages
2,290
No worries. I knew one was east and one was west. My geography is terrible. After looking at a map, there's not a whole lot of room west of the Andes.
No, there isn't, and that's probably one of the reasons why BCC's are more expensive; they have a far more limited range than BCI's, and not all of the countries within their range, of which Brazil is a good example, export them, which limits the numbers of new breeding stock coming in. They are also more difficult to breed in captivity than BCI's. Colombia has large Boa farms, and they still import many animals to the US, even though breeders over here produce the bulk of BCI's, and there are also Boa farms in Nicaragua and El Salvador. Some don't do anything but go out and catch gravid wild females, wait for them to give birth, then sell the offspring and kill and skin the mother, but others actually do keep adult breeding stock, knowing that the greater chances they have of producing something unusual, the more money it will bring, and you don't want to kill the proverbial goose that lays those golden eggs.

pitbulllady
 

DeathsPyro12

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
194
My bad, I knew they are BCI it is just habit to put red-tail because I don't usually talk with people who know the difference, heck, I spent an hour trying to tell my sister the difference between BCI and BCC when she brought home her Columbian boa.

DrJ- Both of their temperments are actually really good so far, male has a slightly stronger feeding response then the female, but she may have just been kinda shy. As for handling them the male is more willing to explore, the female is willing to explore if being held but if I'm stretched out and she is beside me I become a lengthy heat mat.

Not sure if the male was born of a "jungle" or not, the guy I bought them from said he wasn't sure, so I suppose only time will tell.
 

Bengal21

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
42
No, there isn't, and that's probably one of the reasons why BCC's are more expensive; they have a far more limited range than BCI's, and not all of the countries within their range, of which Brazil is a good example, export them, which limits the numbers of new breeding stock coming in. They are also more difficult to breed in captivity than BCI's. Colombia has large Boa farms, and they still import many animals to the US, even though breeders over here produce the bulk of BCI's, and there are also Boa farms in Nicaragua and El Salvador. Some don't do anything but go out and catch gravid wild females, wait for them to give birth, then sell the offspring and kill and skin the mother, but others actually do keep adult breeding stock, knowing that the greater chances they have of producing something unusual, the more money it will bring, and you don't want to kill the proverbial goose that lays those golden eggs.

pitbulllady
I still Can't get the gist of it, because Guyana's and Peruvians are both considered BCC's yet they are on opposite sides of the Mountains. I believe the only sure way to tell is to do saddle and scale counts, correct?
 
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