New Amblypygi (Damon diadema) always sitting on ground

[JustSatanThings]

Hi everyone,
So this guy is my first arachnid, though not my first invert. I've had him for about a week or so and wondering if something's not making him very happy. He looks healthy, I've attached a pic so you can see for yourself. He's got a pretty big terrarium with a lot of vertical space but for the past few days he's just been sitting on the ground near the back wall. I've been led to believe from things I've read online that this isn't very normal, that they usually never go on the ground and prefer to climb, and indeed he was sitting happily on a very similar cork round at the pet store, but once I got him home he's been unenthusiastic about heights as far as I can tell. Stayed very close to the ground at first and then lately just sitting on the substrate.

I don't have a humidity gauge so I dunno exact numbers but I mist the enclosure pretty thoroughly once a day. I live in southern California so you can imagine what the climate is like though it's been unusually cold lately so I've kept the house heated. it's usually between 75-85 F.
I haven't personally seen him eat yet but I've dropped in a few Dubia roaches. He ignored them while I was watching, but i haven't seen them since so they're either hiding or eaten.

Anyway as a first time owner this is all making me nervous, and especially with these guys having a reputation of being pretty easy to care for, it's like, what could I possibly be doing wrong?
Thanks for any and all of your input, cheers!

 

[cold blood]

The only time i see mine on the ground is when theyre really hungry.

Humidity numbers arent important, and you definitely dont need to mist that frequently....i only mist a few times a month and just dampen the sub when it dries out

Its hard to tell when you first get one, but when they plump, they often dont eat for a while till they molt.

 

[chanda]

When he hangs out on the ground, does he mostly do it during the daytime? Or does he do it at night, too? Does he hang out right at the base of one of the cork pieces (or in its shadow?)

I've had some D. diadema that would do that during the daytime - they'd hang out on the substrate, right at the base of the cork and underneath it (the slabs are angled). They like small, dark places where they feel safe - particularly in the daytime - and hanging out on the open cork bark may make them feel too exposed. At night, though, they'd be roaming all over the enclosure and climbing the bark. When given a darker alternative - like two cork slabs lightly stacked, so there's a narrow gap between them - they decided the ground wasn't such a great place to hang out after all.

The other possibility might be if it was too dry for him, so he's hanging out where it's just a bit moister. As cold as it is here in SoCal, your furnace is probably going overtime to maintain the desired temperature range - which really dries out the air. I combat that in my bug/reptile room by having a small humidifier running 24/7 to keep the humidity in that room at a more comfortable level for all my pets.

I keep my D. diadema on fairly dry substrate and only water them 2-3 times a week, not every day - that way the substrate has the chance to dry out in between.

 

[JustSatanThings]

When he hangs out on the ground, does he mostly do it during the daytime? Or does he do it at night, too? Does he hang out right at the base of one of the cork pieces (or in its shadow?)

I've had some D. diadema that would do that during the daytime - they'd hang out on the substrate, right at the base of the cork and underneath it (the slabs are angled). They like small, dark places where they feel safe - particularly in the daytime - and hanging out on the open cork bark may make them feel too exposed. At night, though, they'd be roaming all over the enclosure and climbing the bark. When given a darker alternative - like two cork slabs lightly stacked, so there's a narrow gap between them - they decided the ground wasn't such a great place to hang out after all.

The other possibility might be if it was too dry for him, so he's hanging out where it's just a bit moister. As cold as it is here in SoCal, your furnace is probably going overtime to maintain the desired temperature range - which really dries out the air. I combat that in my bug/reptile room by having a small humidifier running 24/7 to keep the humidity in that room at a more comfortable level for all my pets.

I keep my D. diadema on fairly dry substrate and only water them 2-3 times a week, not every day - that way the substrate has the chance to dry out in between.

Thanks for your reply! He is sitting in shadow (though it doesn't look very shadowy on account of the flash), at the very back of the terrarium between the cork and the wall. He does move around in there - he was facing the other way when I left for work - but I haven't seen him roaming around at any point, not even at night.
Wouldn't it be even darker inside one of the cork rounds? Maybe I should try rearranging the decor to try and create more enclosed places.
I should mention that the place where his enclosure is at receives very little light as it is, even during the day. I figured that would be better but maybe they want some distinct day/night cycle?

So is misting frequency unrelated to the humidity in the enclosure?

 

[JustSatanThings]

The only time i see mine on the ground is when theyre really hungry.

Humidity numbers arent important, and you definitely dont need to mist that frequently....i only mist a few times a month and just dampen the sub when it dries out

Its hard to tell when you first get one, but when they plump, they often dont eat for a while till they molt.

Thanks for your reply. He doesn't exactly look plump to me. Not starving either I think but pretty slender. They do like Dubias don't they? I hope so, because they're so much less of a hassle than crickets.

 

[cold blood]

Thanks for your reply. He doesn't exactly look plump to me. Not starving either I think but pretty slender. They do like Dubias don't they? I hope so, because they're so much less of a hassle than crickets.

Well even when plump they look thin, which is why I mentioned it being hard to tell when it's your first one.

Yes, they eat roaches....I crush their heads and put them on the vertical wood, they are an easy target there....not as important if its on the ground though.

 

[chanda]

Thanks for your reply! He is sitting in shadow (though it doesn't look very shadowy on account of the flash), at the very back of the terrarium between the cork and the wall. He does move around in there - he was facing the other way when I left for work - but I haven't seen him roaming around at any point, not even at night.
Wouldn't it be even darker inside one of the cork rounds? Maybe I should try rearranging the decor to try and create more enclosed places.
I should mention that the place where his enclosure is at receives very little light as it is, even during the day. I figured that would be better but maybe they want some distinct day/night cycle?

So is misting frequency unrelated to the humidity in the enclosure?

Mine don't seem to go for the cork rounds, unless it's a fairly small diameter tube. When I've offered more spacious cork tubes they ignore them. They prefer flat crevices like between two stacked cork slabs, just like the places they would choose to hide in the wild, like cracks in the rocks or underneath the bark of a tree. A larger cork round may still feel too open and exposed, even if it is a bit darker.

I have mine on shelves in my bug/reptile room, so the shelves about them and the adjacent cages block out a lot of light. There are blinds in the window that cut out a fair amount of the sunlight, and there are no artificial light sources on any of the cages on that side of the room, so they don't really receive an abundance of daytime light - but they still prefer to tuck themselves away during the daytime. (The frogs, lizard, and snake do have lights over their cages - but they're on a different rack, on the other side of the room.) The time I see the amblypygi most active is when I creep into the room quietly at night, with a small flashlight. I don't turn on the main room lights - I just use the flashlight to peek into the cages. (I also have red and UV flashlights, for even less-intrusive peeping.)

Misting frequency is related to the humidity of the enclosure in that every time you mist, you are adding water - but if it is a light mist, like you would generally get with a small hand-held spray bottle, it may only wet the glass and/or the very top of the substrate, which will dry out pretty quickly - particularly if you have a furnace running. When I do mine, I use a pump sprayer. About once a week or so they get what I guess could be best described as a light soaking - I spray the water on the glass and let it run down and soak into the substrate around the perimeter of the cage. In between, they will get a lighter spray that provides drinking water (they do drink directly from water droplets on the cork or on the glass) but that does not soak the substrate. I let the substrate dry out in between waterings so I don't end up getting mold.

 

[MikeyD]

I agree that they seem to prefer tight spaces between flat slabs of vertical cork. I also tend to lay a piece of cork flat on the substrate that offers a hiding place underneath, mostly for smaller species or young ones and they tend to use those areas a lot.
I’ve never really seen much mention of keeping amblypygi in dryer settings or being concerned it’s too moist. It’s usually the opposite. If it’s too dry they will go down to the substrate. I keep all of mine with moist substrate and I mist the enclosure about once a week. If the ambient humidity is low and you have too much ventilation then it’s going to cause problems. I would consider covering a good portion of the top of the enclosure if it’s screen and pay attention to not letting the substrate dry out. Some people offer water bowls as well and a large shallow bowl could also help keep humidity up.

 

[aphono]

That's a Damon medius. Lately a number of sellers have been labeling and insisting on them being diademas though. It's also extremely likely a WC import- which is another evidence for medius since Tanzania has a ban on exports as I understand it. Medius are from West African countries btw.

Sitting on ground is not normal and is due to too low humidity. This species thrives in high humidity, more so than diademas. The third picture shows the enclosure and substrate is too dry, especially if it was a recent import(these often very stressed and dehydrated).

I would suggest adding quite a lot of water to the substrate- pour it in if necessary and heavily mist the enclosure to get the humidity sky high to help it recover from stress. Then from on mist regularly to maintain high humidity and keep the substrate 'very moist'.. no such thing as too moist substrate for them, really. They're hardy and will survive humidity levels that doesn't make them exactly happy(sitting on ground, vertical but face at ground level, tightly clinging to objects and 'not moving for days') but keeping them at perpetual high humidity will make a world of difference for them- thrive, in other words.

The set up will be fine as it's humidity that's the issue. It kind of seems they like large broad surfaces as mine are most often on the cork bark flat tiles, but it is not a necessity to provide. One female is in an enclosure with just a large half round in the living room with light exposure and she seems content in it.

 

[schmiggle]

I would suggest adding quite a lot of water to the substrate- pour it in if necessary

This. I would add enough that it's damp all the way through. Don't make it swampy, of course, but if it gets that way it's not the end of the world.

Also, is there anything covering the mesh at the top? Covering that with plastic or glass makes a world of difference to the humidity, and amblypygi generally don't need much airflow. Wizentrop keeps his in tupperwares.

 

[Schledog]

Also dubias will work but are far from perfect. If you have a non burrowing roach species then that would be a lot better.

 

[JustSatanThings]

Thank you all very much. I didn't know it was actually a Damon medius, I looked up the differences between them and it does indeed seem to be the case.
I drenched the substrate pretty well several days ago and am misting more vigorously but he is still preferring to sit on the ground.
It is an enclosure with quite a lot of airflow, I hadn't considered that. Not only is there mesh at the top, but also in the side. I will try covering that up with something.
I still haven't seen him show interest in the dubias. I REALLY hoped to avoid messing with crickets but I might pick some up to see if it makes any difference...

 

[aphono]

Glad you're trying to take good care of it.

Before I finally figured out their preference for high humidity, they also had high ventilation. They were sitting on the substrate or right by it almost all the time. Barely ate. After covering and cranking the humidity sky high, their behavior rapidly changed- within a week, some transformations happened within days. Never on the ground anymore(unless actively stalking or chasing prey), suddenly became enthusiastic and aggressive eaters along a range of behavioral differences- I described them as 'cork bark lumps' to someone before doing this change. Not anymore! Pretty fun species IMO. Just need sky high humidity to thrive.

I recommend after covering the enclosure do another round of super heavy misting of the whole enclosure. Get everything jungle-dripping wet. Mostly because it may be stressed by dehydration(they will drink from the drops on things) & fresh cocofiber can be a bit hydrophobic at first. After it has recovered, don't have to mist as hard, just enough to maintain high humidity & keep the substrate 'very moist'.

As for dubias.. some feed them with seemingly no issues. IME, the majority of my amblypygi of several different species refuse them. From their behavior it seems as if their smell is not exciting or maybe off-putting. The few that took them ate them with no apparent objection to the taste, however most of these refused later offerings of dubia. You can still try them, who knows maybe yours will take them anyways but be aware they will not go after buried dubia and they hide really well in decorated set ups. Thought one of the diademas ate her third dubia... until finding it three months later. That was my final straw for trying to switch them over to dubias.

Perhaps try B. lateralis roaches(red runners)? It seems they are accepted 'better' than dubias. I've only fed this species one time- got a tub of pinheads for baby diademas, they ate these right up(edit to add: this same group refused dubia newborns..). Currently trying to raise a colony from eggs collected from feral lateralis to see if they're a viable cricket alternative for me.

 

[JustSatanThings]

All right, I took some plastic from a garbage bag and taped it over most of the mesh areas, plus a thorough spraying. Now I'm leaving for the weekend, hopefully the increased humidity plus the peace and quiet will help him feel better by the time I get back. I'll try and sort out food next week. Thanks so much for your help! I'll keep the thread updated.

 

[JustSatanThings]

The red runners arrived today, but no luck yet...watched one run right past my ambly a couple times. Ignored. Maybe he'll eat later and was annoyed that I'm shining a light in his tank?
I've been misting diligently but he's still spending his time on the ground.

Also, aphono, do you have any insight on the egg laying process of B. lateralis, since you're trying to raise them? I've got a lovely lady with an egg case sticking out of her butt... is she going to carry it around the whole time? Or will it drop at some point and should I remove it so that the others don't eat it? Pardon my ignorance. Haven't bred roaches before, but I'm considering giving it a shot, since shipping was a bit pricey.

 

[aphono]

Dang, still on the ground? How about another picture of the substrate/enclosure to show the 'humidity level' it's at.

Don't know how others feed, I put in one prey item at a time & if it's not taken within a day/night it's removed. In the second picture it seems the abdomen is plump- is it(not paper thin, weird looking stretchy bit of skin is easily visible on the abdomen sides)? The room temp is fine but just in case- they don't like it warmer than 80-85F. Trying to warm it up more than that will stress it out even more.

Will have to leave it to others about hatching lateralis eggs- didn't get a good hatch rate myself. She will drop the egg case & keep her as she will produce several more. There's a bunch of threads in the insects section of this board on how to hatch their eggs. The basic idea I got was to provide good humidity but at the same time, try not to get the eggs directly wet. One idea was to try setting the eggs on something 'dry'(bottle cap, jar lid) in a moist tub-going to try that next time.

The good thing is the nymphs are ridiculously easy to raise. They'll live no matter what the set up is like. Mine are in deli cups with a bit of cocofiber with the occasional light misting and tiny pinch of fish flakes(only because that's what I have on hand). Nothing fancy at all. They'll move into cheap plastic tubs with egg flats later.

 

[schmiggle]

Maybe he'll eat later and was annoyed that I'm shining a light in his tank?

That'll do it. Leave the set up alone for a day or two after dropping the cricket in.

 

[JustSatanThings]

Well guys as you can probably tell from the lengthy silence, the news is not good, my lovely amblypygi passed away a few weeks ago. I'm honestly still processing it and feeling incredibly guilty. I don't know what I did wrong. My setup was almost identical to the setup at the store, and I was misting like crazy after getting your advice. There was a bit of hope when he climbed up high on the cork while I was misting once but then just a few days later I found him dead, on the ground. Not curled up or anything, just sitting.

I know these things happen for no reason sometimes but it's hard not to blame myself. He was healthy and thriving at the store, and I couldn't leave well enough alone and took him home and killed him. At least that's what it feels like. I'm very upset. I've been wanting to keep one of these guys for a long time, and was looking forward to observing all their behaviors and quirks that I've heard so much about, and I guess I won't get to experience that after all. I don't think I'll try again for a good while. They are kind of pricey and I don't want to run the risk of this happening again. I don't understand how these are described as hardy and easy to take care of, when it seems like I was doing everything I was supposed to, and he just up and died anyway.

Anyway, thank you all for your help. Maybe sometime in the future I'll give it another go and your advice will come in handy then. Cheers.

 

[schmiggle]

Well guys as you can probably tell from the lengthy silence, the news is not good, my lovely amblypygi passed away a few weeks ago. I'm honestly still processing it and feeling incredibly guilty. I don't know what I did wrong. My setup was almost identical to the setup at the store, and I was misting like crazy after getting your advice. There was a bit of hope when he climbed up high on the cork while I was misting once but then just a few days later I found him dead, on the ground. Not curled up or anything, just sitting.

I know these things happen for no reason sometimes but it's hard not to blame myself. He was healthy and thriving at the store, and I couldn't leave well enough alone and took him home and killed him. At least that's what it feels like. I'm very upset. I've been wanting to keep one of these guys for a long time, and was looking forward to observing all their behaviors and quirks that I've heard so much about, and I guess I won't get to experience that after all. I don't think I'll try again for a good while. They are kind of pricey and I don't want to run the risk of this happening again. I don't understand how these are described as hardy and easy to take care of, when it seems like I was doing everything I was supposed to, and he just up and died anyway.

Anyway, thank you all for your help. Maybe sometime in the future I'll give it another go and your advice will come in handy then. Cheers.

Almost certainly not your fault. These guys are wild caught, and the big ones sell best. However, the big ones are also the oldest, and they come in with a load of parasites, so they inevitably die faster than starting with a captive bred specimen. They are hardy and easy to take care of, and you were taking care of yours well. It probably died happy, as such. I definitely wouldn't give up after one screw-up.

My first amblypygid escaped from a hole in the setup that was 100% my fault for not blocking. You live and learn.

 

[Ratmosphere]

Just finding this thread now. Usually everytime I see my Damon medius on the ground I know there is not much time left. At least in my own experience. They are all usually WC and last a few months.