If I spend over 150$ I'll pay fedex or ups just to get a LAG. This isn't a screw up though there are entire states that don't offer overnight delivery on express shipping, PA is one of them. It doesn't matter what time the package arrives in my post office the next day, it is the Policy of the carrier the seller choosed not to deliver the package in a time frame that would comply with the terms of that sellers LAG. My point is more towards people who try to force express on there buyers and I just avoid those sellers for these reasons anymore.
need to pick a few peoples brains about shipping costs
- Thread starter vohnholley
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I hate to name drop, but i can purhase something from paul in cali and his shipping is 10 dollars. With what i am paying for shipping with him i know that the package will be shipped secure and even if it takes a day or two later it is going to arrive alive(it has happened-usps fault). Now he lives on th opposite site of the country. that is why i dont see spending more than that for priority when another seller might only live a few states away.
However, i just found a seller on the site that i am going to start buying from also. They have a deal that i just cant pass up when it comes to shipping.
However, i just found a seller on the site that i am going to start buying from also. They have a deal that i just cant pass up when it comes to shipping.
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Around here priority cost $10-$15 with delivery conformation and the package weighs under a pound.. Cost really depends on where you are located.. I have recieved packages that only cost $5 and some change.. They may not be overcharging just thats the cost where they are located..
*Edit* Also when I ship express it takes normally 2 days not overnight.. When I ship priority it takes 2-3 days.. Whats the point in the extra cost.. (Other than the guaranty of course!)
*Edit* Also when I ship express it takes normally 2 days not overnight.. When I ship priority it takes 2-3 days.. Whats the point in the extra cost.. (Other than the guaranty of course!)
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Express rarely makes it here faster either. UPS does but the boxes are usually dinged up and they aren't close by. I hate UPS. Fed Ex is further and I have gotten many crushed boxes of crickets in the past. <Edit to add> and the other reason I dislike my UPS is I have gotten boxes I was supposed to sign for and never did. They are also clearly marked do not leave in the sun Live Reptile and sure enough they were sitting in an open drive way in the direct sun. They didn't even come in the gate to see if I was home. Thankfully nothing has been killed other than crickets.
Is by weight cheaper than flat rate on T's?
The way I have done mine is if I already have a box from another order that is in good shape I just find out how much it is to ship on express or priority. Reason is well I had the box and the foam from a prior order I didn't spend anything on it so why should you. If I have to go get some then I might add a little more dunno haven't run into that yet. Usually if I get them to sign I just pay the extra dollar something myself. Everybody has slightly smaller boxes than me though. Not cool.
My USPS sells the tiny $5 box that Styrofoam much less a vial wouldn't even fit into and then the next size up is the $10 box that is more than enough. Does anyone get the online boxes sent to them? What sizes do you get? Just in case I need to order some later. I hate going up there just to come back home and go back up there. LOL.
Is by weight cheaper than flat rate on T's?
The way I have done mine is if I already have a box from another order that is in good shape I just find out how much it is to ship on express or priority. Reason is well I had the box and the foam from a prior order I didn't spend anything on it so why should you. If I have to go get some then I might add a little more dunno haven't run into that yet. Usually if I get them to sign I just pay the extra dollar something myself. Everybody has slightly smaller boxes than me though. Not cool.
My USPS sells the tiny $5 box that Styrofoam much less a vial wouldn't even fit into and then the next size up is the $10 box that is more than enough. Does anyone get the online boxes sent to them? What sizes do you get? Just in case I need to order some later. I hate going up there just to come back home and go back up there. LOL.
Last edited:
That was my point really, of course if it takes 2 days that gurantee is void, most LAG are dependant on the package being delivered within 29 hours.
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I always go with priority.. IF the seller has them packed right then they can survive in transit for quite some time.. I sent a package and it took 4 days all the critters got there alive and well.. I have recieve a package that took 5 days to get to me.. They were packed perfectly and they were alive and well when I recieved them..
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- May 14, 2008
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I thought I'd chime in here with two cents.
I don't see why a buyer should expect "shipping" to be actual shipping costs, as in postage amounts.
A seller (and I should know) has to worry about having the animal well bunkered, (containers, heat packs if neccesary, padding or shreds, and sometimes other things), or risk getting bad feed back or a delivery that results in a dead or injured animal.
Then they have to also worry about getting to their local post office, which sometimes involves an actual fare or gas money to drive there, and on top of that, Paypal is charging quite a percentage just for someone to use it (receive funds).
The smallest priority box is the one that's $5, and that's IF you don't go the extra-responsible way and add confirmation, which costs more also! (All assuming that that smallest box is the one you're gonna go with ofcourse, because half the time its not!)
I'm on the east coast and sometimes shipping clear across the country does cost a tad more than it would to say, two or three states away.
What are sellers suPpose to do? List a rate for people on their side and then another for people on the other side?
And what about the ones that add this to their listing (PLEASE ADD 5% for Paypal?)
Then buyers complain about that also.
I mean there's really no winning with everyone. It would be impossible.
Costs have to be incorporated into totals, whether its in the price of a sling or in the shipping amount.
Major sellers or breeders get enough business to add better deals in this way, but your average trader has all these things to consider when posting an ad.
I have never frowned upon priority shipments, but I'm definitely not gonna worry about an extra dollar or four, if I choose to go with this method...
I believe $10-$12 is fine even if the actual postage turns out to be $5.65
Again, just my two cents.
I don't see why a buyer should expect "shipping" to be actual shipping costs, as in postage amounts.
A seller (and I should know) has to worry about having the animal well bunkered, (containers, heat packs if neccesary, padding or shreds, and sometimes other things), or risk getting bad feed back or a delivery that results in a dead or injured animal.
Then they have to also worry about getting to their local post office, which sometimes involves an actual fare or gas money to drive there, and on top of that, Paypal is charging quite a percentage just for someone to use it (receive funds).
The smallest priority box is the one that's $5, and that's IF you don't go the extra-responsible way and add confirmation, which costs more also! (All assuming that that smallest box is the one you're gonna go with ofcourse, because half the time its not!)
I'm on the east coast and sometimes shipping clear across the country does cost a tad more than it would to say, two or three states away.
What are sellers suPpose to do? List a rate for people on their side and then another for people on the other side?
And what about the ones that add this to their listing (PLEASE ADD 5% for Paypal?)
Then buyers complain about that also.
I mean there's really no winning with everyone. It would be impossible.
Costs have to be incorporated into totals, whether its in the price of a sling or in the shipping amount.
Major sellers or breeders get enough business to add better deals in this way, but your average trader has all these things to consider when posting an ad.
I have never frowned upon priority shipments, but I'm definitely not gonna worry about an extra dollar or four, if I choose to go with this method...
I believe $10-$12 is fine even if the actual postage turns out to be $5.65
Again, just my two cents.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2009
- Messages
- 1,349
Adding an extra fee for using paypal is against paypal's terms of agreement. Just a side note.
I am "guilty" of asking for more than what the actual shipping cost is for priority shipping. But I almost always lose money on shipping express (I'll need to raise that next time).
The way that I pack to make sure that the Ts arrive safely to the buyers usually adds substantial weight to the box, so it always cost more for the minimum shipping cost. There were times that I spent more to ship priority than what I charged. Besides each shipping is different, there's never one of the same, so the cost always vary.
I have seen dealers that offer low or free shipping but their price aren't that reasonable. I think it comes down to is the bottom line. If the total price is right, people will buy no matter what.
The way that I pack to make sure that the Ts arrive safely to the buyers usually adds substantial weight to the box, so it always cost more for the minimum shipping cost. There were times that I spent more to ship priority than what I charged. Besides each shipping is different, there's never one of the same, so the cost always vary.
I have seen dealers that offer low or free shipping but their price aren't that reasonable. I think it comes down to is the bottom line. If the total price is right, people will buy no matter what.
- Joined
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- Messages
- 939
I am posting this under my own name as this is my personal viewpoint based on over 25 years as a full-time professional in the exotic animal business and pet industry. My own views do not necessarily represent my employer TARANTULAS.com.
1. It is illegal to ship arachnids via the postal service. Doing so is expressly in violation of USPS regulations.
2. Although any well packed tarantulas can certainly survive just fine for days in all but extreme weather, it is irresponsible to ship animals without live arrival guaranteed and more irresponsible to not ship overnight where the animal's safety is significantly less at risk. Doesn't matter if it is a 2 dollar s'ling or a several hundred dollar adult female P. metallica. It's a life and it's precious. Offering a reduced price without LAG is abhorrent. Do not patronize "dealers" who are willing to ship animals without LAG.
3. Proper packaging takes time and costs money. Those who are professional dealers, not weekend warriors making a few bucks from a hobby, use new insulated animal shipping boxes (not USPS freebies) and other supplies that are part of shipping cost. As "Miss Bianca" put very well, expecting your shipping charge to be exactly what it cost the shipper is unreasonable. Significant profits should not be made off of shipping charge, but a little room above actual costs is necessary to compensate for time spent processing/packing/driving to drop, delays, losses, and many other little things, plus those times when shipping cost exceeds shipping charge on another shipment.
3b. That said, do not ever pay a "box charge" that is separate from the dealer's shipping charge or an extra fee for heat packs. The grocery store doesn't charge you for bags (but they should so people stop filling landfills with plastic but that's another rant ... use reusable bags please!). They have to supply them to transport your purchase. Same deal with boxes and heat packs. These prices should be figured into the overhead of business operation and applied to pricing across the full range of products offered. In other words, the "dealer" should sell that underpriced $20 spider (that probably really has a market value of $30+) for $25 instead of adding ridiculous surcharges and fees to the end of the sale.
4. Since the thread topic has been expanded to discussion of PayPal fees, as mentioned it is against PP policy to pass this charge on to customers. Do you pay 5% extra when paying by debit or credit card at the grocery store or Best Buy or the neighborhood bar? No. That's the price of doing business and should be factored into pricing not tacked on the end. It's almost 2010. Business is done by electronic payment and debit/credit cards. Do not patronize anyone backasswards enough to charge you a fee for giving them money.
5. It all comes down to something I have been up against for over two decades. Those of us who make our living in a hobby business struggle to survive when the hobbyists who were once our customers become our competitors. That's part of the game when it comes to animals. They breed. They make more of themselves. The market becomes flooded. The casual hobbyist wants to become a dealer or at least recover the costs of keeping their animals. That's cool. The hobby grows. New hobbyists are created. But if I sold televisions I wouldn't have to worry about my customer making his own televisions and selling them to my other potential customers. But, with the product I sell, I am constantly up against amateur dealers. Many are great and are responsible about their pricing and practices. Others devalue species with ridiculously low prices because they don't care. They get their paycheck from wherever and feed their families. No thought is given to those who have to feed our families by selling the same species. And back on topic, some compete with professionals by trying to offer unreasonably low shipping prices. One amateur dealer is/was well known for charging less for shipping than it cost him (and like most others he shipped illegally through the USPS). When he is/was charging $15 for Express Mail shipping that actually cost a minimum of $23 or so to try to lure customers away from real dealers operating businesses in a sensible and professional manner either he was being an idiot and operating at a loss, or the apparent savings was being added in somewhere else. Since his animal pricing was also foolish, I think you can figure out why he - and countless predecessors not too unlike him - probably isn't still around.
6. Which brings me back to point one. Professional animal dealers ship exclusively using FedEx or UPS overnight service (or Delta same day shipping in some cases). Amateurs use cheaper alternatives. Professional animal dealers have accounts with these carriers and are authorized or certified shippers. Although the regulations of these carriers are strange and may actually also prohibit many types of live animals including tarantulas, these professional animal dealers ship with full disclosure. It's a grey area. But professional animal dealers give UPS and FedEx loads of money (the company I work for has UPS charges of thousands of dollars each month) and they want our business. Our company ships insects, arachnids and reptiles every week via UPS Next Day Air with their full knowledge. The country is full of animal dealers who also use UPS or FedEx and this is a significant source of income for these carriers. Patronize animal dealers who ship properly.
7. For those who have complaints regarding the two carriers that professional animal dealers use (FedEx and UPS) let me explain one thing: They will not treat your box special. You can write "LIVE" or "Keep out of Sun" or whatever you like. It doesn't matter unless a driver who reads that happens to care a little more than most. They will transport these animals only without special care. In other words, they won't accept a box they have to treat any different than a box of books from Amazon.com or a pair of shoes from Zappos. It's just a parcel and gets no special consideration. Boxes should be packed so that they can survive inevitable jostling, perhaps even throwing across a warehose, as well as though it can survive the elements. Also, I can tell you as a UPS shipper that signature confirmation is an extra fee now and, based on the whole point of this thread, nobody is going to want to pay yet another five bucks. The package will be dropped on the doorstep. They probably won't even bother to knock. Schedule delivery for when you can be WAITING - as in actively watching for driver to come. Having packages shipped to business is MUCH SMARTER and packages are usually treated better and arrive earlier.
7b. I realize some people live in rural areas where service is spottier and overnight might often mean afternoon delivery or worse. Unfortunately, that's the price of living in the sticks. At least you don't have to deal with rush hour traffic and swarms of urban refuse.
In conclusion, I spent the time to post here to give an actual expert opinion on the topic, and because this subject obviously is of importance to me. Beyond just the shipping charge discussion, the broader scope is that hobbyists have unreasonable expectations of dealers. I realize that many dealers do not depend on this hobby to support themselves, but hobbyists have to appreciate that many of us do. These are businesses. No different than a restaurant or an auto parts store. This may be your hobby, but it's our livelihood. Don't expect everyone to give you everything for nothing just because of a shared passion for the hobby. I've been keeping tarantulas for 35 years and I still have the passion of a newbie. But this isn't all fun and games for some of us. We all have bills to pay.
If you can afford to buy a tarantula you can afford to have it properly shipped via an overnight service. This costs about 30 bucks, so it is unreasonable to order one $15 spider at a time. If you can only afford some ridiculous $7 Priority charge from some pseudodealer who isn't guaranteeing live arrival, perhaps you shouldn't be buying a spider. It's a living creature. RESPECT AND PROTECT!
Finally, this is all I have to say about this. There will no be rebuttal or discourse with some whiny dealer who charges PayPal fees and has shipped USPS for years. I don't have time to argue with those who I am sure my controversial and honest opinions might offend. I gave up on forum debates years ago, which is why you never see me post on this site anymore. But if this post makes even one of you have a better understanding of the fact that your hobby is also someone elses business, and precious live animals that deserve better than being treated like widgets are the product, my time was worth it.
Respect and protect. Peace, Michael Jacobi
1. It is illegal to ship arachnids via the postal service. Doing so is expressly in violation of USPS regulations.
2. Although any well packed tarantulas can certainly survive just fine for days in all but extreme weather, it is irresponsible to ship animals without live arrival guaranteed and more irresponsible to not ship overnight where the animal's safety is significantly less at risk. Doesn't matter if it is a 2 dollar s'ling or a several hundred dollar adult female P. metallica. It's a life and it's precious. Offering a reduced price without LAG is abhorrent. Do not patronize "dealers" who are willing to ship animals without LAG.
3. Proper packaging takes time and costs money. Those who are professional dealers, not weekend warriors making a few bucks from a hobby, use new insulated animal shipping boxes (not USPS freebies) and other supplies that are part of shipping cost. As "Miss Bianca" put very well, expecting your shipping charge to be exactly what it cost the shipper is unreasonable. Significant profits should not be made off of shipping charge, but a little room above actual costs is necessary to compensate for time spent processing/packing/driving to drop, delays, losses, and many other little things, plus those times when shipping cost exceeds shipping charge on another shipment.
3b. That said, do not ever pay a "box charge" that is separate from the dealer's shipping charge or an extra fee for heat packs. The grocery store doesn't charge you for bags (but they should so people stop filling landfills with plastic but that's another rant ... use reusable bags please!). They have to supply them to transport your purchase. Same deal with boxes and heat packs. These prices should be figured into the overhead of business operation and applied to pricing across the full range of products offered. In other words, the "dealer" should sell that underpriced $20 spider (that probably really has a market value of $30+) for $25 instead of adding ridiculous surcharges and fees to the end of the sale.
4. Since the thread topic has been expanded to discussion of PayPal fees, as mentioned it is against PP policy to pass this charge on to customers. Do you pay 5% extra when paying by debit or credit card at the grocery store or Best Buy or the neighborhood bar? No. That's the price of doing business and should be factored into pricing not tacked on the end. It's almost 2010. Business is done by electronic payment and debit/credit cards. Do not patronize anyone backasswards enough to charge you a fee for giving them money.
5. It all comes down to something I have been up against for over two decades. Those of us who make our living in a hobby business struggle to survive when the hobbyists who were once our customers become our competitors. That's part of the game when it comes to animals. They breed. They make more of themselves. The market becomes flooded. The casual hobbyist wants to become a dealer or at least recover the costs of keeping their animals. That's cool. The hobby grows. New hobbyists are created. But if I sold televisions I wouldn't have to worry about my customer making his own televisions and selling them to my other potential customers. But, with the product I sell, I am constantly up against amateur dealers. Many are great and are responsible about their pricing and practices. Others devalue species with ridiculously low prices because they don't care. They get their paycheck from wherever and feed their families. No thought is given to those who have to feed our families by selling the same species. And back on topic, some compete with professionals by trying to offer unreasonably low shipping prices. One amateur dealer is/was well known for charging less for shipping than it cost him (and like most others he shipped illegally through the USPS). When he is/was charging $15 for Express Mail shipping that actually cost a minimum of $23 or so to try to lure customers away from real dealers operating businesses in a sensible and professional manner either he was being an idiot and operating at a loss, or the apparent savings was being added in somewhere else. Since his animal pricing was also foolish, I think you can figure out why he - and countless predecessors not too unlike him - probably isn't still around.
6. Which brings me back to point one. Professional animal dealers ship exclusively using FedEx or UPS overnight service (or Delta same day shipping in some cases). Amateurs use cheaper alternatives. Professional animal dealers have accounts with these carriers and are authorized or certified shippers. Although the regulations of these carriers are strange and may actually also prohibit many types of live animals including tarantulas, these professional animal dealers ship with full disclosure. It's a grey area. But professional animal dealers give UPS and FedEx loads of money (the company I work for has UPS charges of thousands of dollars each month) and they want our business. Our company ships insects, arachnids and reptiles every week via UPS Next Day Air with their full knowledge. The country is full of animal dealers who also use UPS or FedEx and this is a significant source of income for these carriers. Patronize animal dealers who ship properly.
7. For those who have complaints regarding the two carriers that professional animal dealers use (FedEx and UPS) let me explain one thing: They will not treat your box special. You can write "LIVE" or "Keep out of Sun" or whatever you like. It doesn't matter unless a driver who reads that happens to care a little more than most. They will transport these animals only without special care. In other words, they won't accept a box they have to treat any different than a box of books from Amazon.com or a pair of shoes from Zappos. It's just a parcel and gets no special consideration. Boxes should be packed so that they can survive inevitable jostling, perhaps even throwing across a warehose, as well as though it can survive the elements. Also, I can tell you as a UPS shipper that signature confirmation is an extra fee now and, based on the whole point of this thread, nobody is going to want to pay yet another five bucks. The package will be dropped on the doorstep. They probably won't even bother to knock. Schedule delivery for when you can be WAITING - as in actively watching for driver to come. Having packages shipped to business is MUCH SMARTER and packages are usually treated better and arrive earlier.
7b. I realize some people live in rural areas where service is spottier and overnight might often mean afternoon delivery or worse. Unfortunately, that's the price of living in the sticks. At least you don't have to deal with rush hour traffic and swarms of urban refuse.
In conclusion, I spent the time to post here to give an actual expert opinion on the topic, and because this subject obviously is of importance to me. Beyond just the shipping charge discussion, the broader scope is that hobbyists have unreasonable expectations of dealers. I realize that many dealers do not depend on this hobby to support themselves, but hobbyists have to appreciate that many of us do. These are businesses. No different than a restaurant or an auto parts store. This may be your hobby, but it's our livelihood. Don't expect everyone to give you everything for nothing just because of a shared passion for the hobby. I've been keeping tarantulas for 35 years and I still have the passion of a newbie. But this isn't all fun and games for some of us. We all have bills to pay.
If you can afford to buy a tarantula you can afford to have it properly shipped via an overnight service. This costs about 30 bucks, so it is unreasonable to order one $15 spider at a time. If you can only afford some ridiculous $7 Priority charge from some pseudodealer who isn't guaranteeing live arrival, perhaps you shouldn't be buying a spider. It's a living creature. RESPECT AND PROTECT!
Finally, this is all I have to say about this. There will no be rebuttal or discourse with some whiny dealer who charges PayPal fees and has shipped USPS for years.
I don't have time to argue with those who I am sure my controversial and honest opinions might offend. I gave up on forum debates years ago, which is why you never see me post on this site anymore. But if this post makes even one of you have a better understanding of the fact that your hobby is also someone elses business, and precious live animals that deserve better than being treated like widgets are the product, my time was worth it.Respect and protect. Peace, Michael Jacobi
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- Joined
- Sep 19, 2007
- Messages
- 428
You're confusing flat rate with something else. Flat rate is, as it says, a flat rate. Regardless of weight a flat rate box costs the same. If you add extra services like insurance and signature confirmation you can drive the cost up, but weight will not affect price. If it weighs 5 ounces it costs the same as if it weighs 50 pounds.
There are 3 prices for flat rate boxes. The prices are for different sized boxes. Smaller box has a lower price. The small flat rate box is $4.95 ($4.80 if you pay online). It is 8-5/8" x 5-3/8" x 1-5/8". At 1.5" thick you can't realistically include any padding at all - I would not ever consider using a small flat rate box for a tarantula. Moving up you have the medium and regular flat rate boxes. These are $10.35 ($9.85 online). This is the first size I'd realistically consider using for the flat rate boxes. The medium box is 11" x 8.5" x 5.5. The large flat rate box is $13.95 ($13.50 online). It is 12" x 12" x 6".
So if someone used a medium flat rate box ($10.35) threw in some foam/heat pack, it could easily cost $15.
Often, it is cheaper not to use the flat rate boxes because tarantula orders are so light weight. However, the price does vary based on both weight and distance traveled. Rather than trying to charge a different shipping price for every buyer most sellers will set a given price for everyone. They may make money on some orders and lose money on others. People should post the price they charge for shipping in the ad, but I imagine not everyone does.
Ultimately the shipping price isn't important. As people learned on Ebay ages ago, a $10 price with $30 shipping is the same as a $30 price with $10 shipping. If the combined price is cheaper with someone who charges $15 for priority why would you choose to pay more?