My Worst Nightmare

[spideyspinneret78]

My Ornithoctoninae sp. vietnam silver passed unexpectedly this morning and I was very confused since it had been eating and behaving normally. Out of curiosity I put it under the microscope and did an exam. I noticed a small droplet of liquid near the sling's mouth and to my horror it was crawling with nematodes. It arrived in the same shipment as my Xenesthis which died a few weeks ago. I'm now suspecting that both spiders were probably infected. None of my other spiders are showing symptoms but I'm terrified. Time to disinfect all tools, etc.

 

[Liquifin]

You need to contact the seller you bought it from if it did come the seller.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

You need to contact the seller you bought it from if it did come the seller.

I was just thinking that. They both came from the same seller and were in the same shipment.

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

That’s awful. I’m so sorry to hear that and hope all your other T’s are okay.

 

[SpookySpooder]

This really is a nightmare. You made me paranoid about mine for a split second.

Those are some really awesome species, terrible to lose them like that. Hope you can get this addressed by the vendor.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

That’s awful. I’m so sorry to hear that and hope all your other T’s are okay.

Thankfully everybody else seems ok. But of course I'm worried.

This really is a nightmare. You made me paranoid about mine for a split second.

Those are some really awesome species, terrible to lose them like that. Hope you can get this addressed by the vendor.

Yeah. I contacted them at least to make them aware of what happened since this sort of thing could be devastating for them, their animals, and their customers.

This really does make me question, however, how common these parasites actually are, especially when people have a series of deaths with seemingly no explanation. If I didn't look at the sling under the microscope on a whim, I would've had no idea what happened and probably would've just assumed that something went wrong when it was about to molt. I wouldn't have been able to connect the dots with the Xenesthis either. I knew something was wrong with him but I couldn't put my finger on it. Makes me wonder how many mysterious deaths could in fact be attributed to parasites or infectious disease. It's so hard to tell with the naked eye especially with slings. From now on I'm going to look at slings under the scope when they pass, and I'll do necropsies on larger specimens, that way I'll have a better chance of catching things like this early and might learn something valuable. It's so frustrating how little we know. If there were avian and exotic vets who specialized in inverts, I would take my babies there in a heartbeat to get care. It's gut wrenching to feel so powerless in situations like this.

 

[Wolfram1]

honestly i think parasites, while horrific and prone to outbreaks, are the least of our problems, i suspect bacteria and protista are the biggest killers, maybe even viral infections.

Its just that these usually go unseen/unnoticed.

I would love to learn more about their immune system in general and how certain bacteria, like Salmonella for example, affect them, because oh boy i am pretty sure thats one group they get in contact with a lot.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

honestly i think parasites, while horrific and prone to outbreaks, are the least of our problems, i suspect bacteria and protista are the biggest killers, maybe even viral infections.

Its just that these usually go unseen/unnoticed.

I would love to learn more about their immune system in general and how certain bacteria, like Salmonella for example, affect them, because oh boy i am pretty sure thats one group they get in contact with a lot.

Oh, definitely. It would be really interesting and helpful to learn more about these pathogens. Maybe then effective treatments could be discovered.

 

[l4nsky]

Thankfully everybody else seems ok. But of course I'm worried.


Yeah. I contacted them at least to make them aware of what happened since this sort of thing could be devastating for them, their animals, and their customers.

This really does make me question, however, how common these parasites actually are, especially when people have a series of deaths with seemingly no explanation. If I didn't look at the sling under the microscope on a whim, I would've had no idea what happened and probably would've just assumed that something went wrong when it was about to molt. I wouldn't have been able to connect the dots with the Xenesthis either. I knew something was wrong with him but I couldn't put my finger on it. Makes me wonder how many mysterious deaths could in fact be attributed to parasites or infectious disease. It's so hard to tell with the naked eye especially with slings. From now on I'm going to look at slings under the scope when they pass, and I'll do necropsies on larger specimens, that way I'll have a better chance of catching things like this early and might learn something valuable. It's so frustrating how little we know. If there were avian and exotic vets who specialized in inverts, I would take my babies there in a heartbeat to get care. It's gut wrenching to feel so powerless in situations like this.

Uggh.... As if I didn't have enough stuff to be concerned about... I remember reading somewhere about how in the reptile hobby, a lot of larger breeders practice biosecurity using a chlorhexidine dip to sanitize tongs inbetween enclosures and IIRC, even using a weak solution as a soak in a holding tub so they can use the same tub to hold specimens as they're cleaning enclosures during the rounds.

I wonder if maybe a 3-6% H2O2 dip followed by a dip in a weak calcium carbonate solution could serve the same purpose for invert handling tools as I believe chlorhexidine is harmful for those lacking a spine.

@HooahArmy, you've been summoned .

 

[spideyspinneret78]

Uggh.... As if I didn't have enough stuff to be concerned about... I remember reading somewhere about how in the reptile hobby, a lot of larger breeders practice biosecurity using a chlorhexidine dip to sanitize tongs inbetween enclosures and IIRC, even using a weak solution as a soak in a holding tub so they can use the same tub to hold specimens as they're cleaning enclosures during the rounds.

I wonder if maybe a 3-6% H2O2 dip followed by a dip in a weak calcium carbonate solution could serve the same purpose for invert handling tools as I believe chlorhexidine is harmful for those lacking a spine.

@HooahArmy, you've been summoned .

When I worked with aquatic animals and reptiles, we had 2 tubs for dipping used tools. One for bleach solution, the other for sodium thiosulfate to neutralize it followed by a rinse. Implementing a permanent disinfection protocol for tools is probably something I'm going to look into from here on out.

 

[kingshockey]

hopefully your collection is good and healthy still

 

[HooahArmy]

Uggh.... As if I didn't have enough stuff to be concerned about... I remember reading somewhere about how in the reptile hobby, a lot of larger breeders practice biosecurity using a chlorhexidine dip to sanitize tongs inbetween enclosures and IIRC, even using a weak solution as a soak in a holding tub so they can use the same tub to hold specimens as they're cleaning enclosures during the rounds.

I wonder if maybe a 3-6% H2O2 dip followed by a dip in a weak calcium carbonate solution could serve the same purpose for invert handling tools as I believe chlorhexidine is harmful for those lacking a spine.

@HooahArmy, you've been summoned .

In an alternate universe, there is an evil version of HooahArmy that doesn't come when summoned...

Ladies and gentlemen! Let's talk Chlorhexidine! This stuff, which we'll call 'C' for short, is water-soluble, meaning that it dissolves in water and can easily evaporate in the atmosphere. When in liquid form, it is relatively toxic to anything with a soul and especially toxic to aquatic invertebrates, given that these critters need to practically soak in water with C to be exposed. However, when not in water, C evaporates and toxicity goes down, unless you gunk it on an item and then have an invert/reptile lick it all over (LOL). It is used very frequently as a disinfectants in veterinary offices and in locations housing animals.
When using C as a disinfectant, items sanitized should be safe to use around an invert as long as the stuff is dry. To ensure extra safety, keep an eye on the C concentration as well, just in case it leaves too much of a residue behind. As mentioned by l4nsky, a H2O2 (Hydrogen peroxide) dip is a much safer alternative should you worry, since that one will eventually break into only water and oxygen. Calcium carbonate solution also is a good one.

When using any type of disinfectant, the best thing to do to ensure safety is to check for residues. If a grimy residue remains that can rub off on a pal, it might not be the best disinfectant to use. The same goes if the chemical leaves a powerful smell, is shady to the point where you won't touch it yourself, or is a disinfectant for industrial uses rather than medical.

 

[l4nsky]

In an alternate universe, there is an evil version of HooahArmy that doesn't come when summoned...

That would be a much less informed universe and a pity because of it .

As mentioned by l4nsky, a H2O2 (Hydrogen peroxide) dip is a much safer alternative should you worry, since that one will eventually break into only water and oxygen. Calcium carbonate solution also is a good one.

Thanks, now to determine how effective either would be against parasitic nematodes in tarantulas. H2O2 seems to have an effect on parasitic plant nematodes atleast, but I'll need to look into it more.

Thinking out loud, for biosecurity purposes you'd probably have to have a set of tongs specifically for handling boli and a separate set for feeders if necessary. Could the tongs used for boli removal possibly be stored in a H2O2 bath for a husbandry session and used wet or would there be a risk to the tarantula, even at the consumer level concentrations of 3% to 6%, should the tarantula make contact with the wet tongs? Or is this a dumb line of thought lol?

 

[HooahArmy]

That would be a much less informed universe and a pity because of it .


Thanks, now to determine how effective either would be against parasitic nematodes in tarantulas. H2O2 seems to have an effect on parasitic plant nematodes atleast, but I'll need to look into it more.

Thinking out loud, for biosecurity purposes you'd probably have to have a set of tongs specifically for handling boli and a separate set for feeders if necessary. Could the tongs used for boli removal possibly be stored in a H2O2 bath for a husbandry session and used wet or would there be a risk to the tarantula, even at the consumer level concentrations of 3% to 6%, should the tarantula make contact with the wet tongs? Or is this a dumb line of thought lol?

My family and I have a zillion pairs of tongs I use for every critter and task, just to keep from cross-contamination and to keep things clean. We're the kind of people who would drop into apoplexy if two incompatible foods touched on our dinner plates, so we're the same for our critters, even when we sanitize. Personally, I use H2O2 and a terrarium-safe cleanser since chlorhexidine can get a bit pricy. After every cleaning session with anything I use, I always let the tools fully dry before using them, just to ensure safety. Wet H2O2 can get VERY zesty on mucous membranes, so I wouldn't want that around invert bodies where it might be sucked in a book lung, siphoned into pores, or lapped into mouths on accident. Even low concentrations of H2O2 can cause blinding or eye damage in mammals, so better safe than sorry.

 

[l4nsky]

My family and I have a zillion pairs of tongs I use for every critter and task, just to keep from cross-contamination and to keep things clean. We're the kind of people who would drop into apoplexy if two incompatible foods touched on our dinner plates, so we're the same for our critters, even when we sanitize. Personally, I use H2O2 and a terrarium-safe cleanser since chlorhexidine can get a bit pricy. After every cleaning session with anything I use, I always let the tools fully dry before using them, just to ensure safety. Wet H2O2 can get VERY zesty on mucous membranes, so I wouldn't want that around invert bodies where it might be sucked in a book lung, siphoned into pores, or lapped into mouths on accident. Even low concentrations of H2O2 can cause blinding or eye damage in mammals, so better safe than sorry.

Again, thank you for the input. I'm trying not to price out and purchase 50 12" tongs (although I'm not going to rule it out either lol). I guess what I'm shooting for is a two or three part dip that cleans and makes the implement safe again for use without drying. If H2O2 is effective at nematode control, what would be effective at neutralizing the H2O2 and making it safe? Is it just a matter of swishing the tongs into a water bath after a H2O2 dip to dilute any that was still clinging to the metal?

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Again, thank you for the input. I'm trying not to price out and purchase 50 12" tongs (although I'm not going to rule it out either lol). I guess what I'm shooting for is a two or three part dip that cleans and makes the implement safe again for use without drying. If H2O2 is effective at nematode control, what would be effective at neutralizing the H2O2 and making it safe? Is it just a matter of swishing the tongs into a water bath after a H2O2 dip to dilute any that was still clinging to the metal?

I never even thought to soak tongs in peroxide, neat way to clean them. I usually just use dish soap and a sponge.

 

[HooahArmy]

Again, thank you for the input. I'm trying not to price out and purchase 50 12" tongs (although I'm not going to rule it out either lol). I guess what I'm shooting for is a two or three part dip that cleans and makes the implement safe again for use without drying. If H2O2 is effective at nematode control, what would be effective at neutralizing the H2O2 and making it safe? Is it just a matter of swishing the tongs into a water bath after a H2O2 dip to dilute any that was still clinging to the metal?

Over time, H2O2 will become water and oxygen, yet that does indeed take time. A quick rinse with water does the trick!
Tongs are quite expensive, my pa had a restaurant in the past, so we always had plenty. For smaller movements, I like plastic chopsticks. They're easy to clean and can pick up anything from a molt to a good piece of Kung Pow chicken!

@Ultum4Spiderz
I also use dish soap too, but my dish soap has a smell that some of my family's bigger Ts tend to like. Maybe they think it's soapy, soapy crickets or something, but they've struck a few times at the tongs, causing me to just do a peroxide swipe or soak, and then a water rinse if needed.

 

[Mustafa67]

My Ornithoctoninae sp. vietnam silver passed unexpectedly this morning and I was very confused since it had been eating and behaving normally. Out of curiosity I put it under the microscope and did an exam. I noticed a small droplet of liquid near the sling's mouth and to my horror it was crawling with nematodes. It arrived in the same shipment as my Xenesthis which died a few weeks ago. I'm now suspecting that both spiders were probably infected. None of my other spiders are showing symptoms but I'm terrified. Time to disinfect all tools, etc.

RIP I am sorry for your loss, I hope the rest of your tarantulas are ok

 

[spideyspinneret78]

It was time consuming and tedious, but I caught each spider and closely examined their mouthparts with a magnifying glass. I didn't see any parasites or anything abnormal. I fed everyone yesterday and they were all eating normally. Fingers crossed. I'm going to watch each tarantula very, very closely over the next few months and quarantine as needed.

 

[juniperkisses440]

This is so scary and heartbreaking not only for you but your lost t’s.
I lost all the t’s but one (the most aggressive of course, but I haven’t seen him in a while either tbh) from one of the 2 sellers I bought from at the last expo I went to and I am now hesitant to trust any sellers outside of who I have been dealing with.