my mexican red knee died suddenly

msbairan

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
11
I think my sweet little T is dead...

I just moved literally cross country with her a week and a half ago. I had her in a small ventilated travel container. Along the way my brother dropped her in her container. Since then we have arrived at our destination. She ate. Drank water from her bowl and has acted quite normal. I assumed through some miracle the fall
hadnt affected her. I am still not sure the
fall had anything to do with it... yesterday
afternoon i cleaned the house and moved
her cage from a spot in the sun to a shadier spot the living room. This morning i came down and she was in a death curl. She is still limber but completely unresponsive. The house drops down to 72 at night around 75
during the day. These are the same temps i kept my house in florida and she was fine. No thermometerfor her cage. She was a hand me down and she didnt come
with one and for 2 years she has been fine living at normal florida house temps.

I put her outside this morning to try to warm her but i dont even know if it has anything to do with temp

Could it be substandard crickets from a
new pet store?

The falle from a week and a half ago?

Or perhaps she is a he?

The person who gave her to me said it was probably a she since she was 6 and not dead when i got her.

So many factors...

Either way i am pretty upset...
 

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Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
5,825
Can I ask you, before answering, if you can upload other pics of your spider?
 

Haksilence

Bad At Titles
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
405
I think my sweet little T is dead...

I just moved literally cross country with her a week and a half ago. I had her in a small ventilated travel container. Along the way my brother dropped her in her container. Since then we have arrived at our destination. She ate. Drank water from her bowl and has acted quite normal. I assumed through some miracle the fall
hadnt affected her. I am still not sure the
fall had anything to do with it... yesterday
afternoon i cleaned the house and moved
her cage from a spot in the sun to a shadier spot the living room. This morning i came down and she was in a death curl. She is still limber but completely unresponsive. The house drops down to 72 at night around 75
during the day. These are the same temps i kept my house in florida and she was fine. No thermometerfor her cage. She was a hand me down and she didnt come
with one and for 2 years she has been fine living at normal florida house temps.

I put her outside this morning to try to warm her but i dont even know if it has anything to do with temp

Could it be substandard crickets from a
new pet store?

The falle from a week and a half ago?

Or perhaps she is a he?

The person who gave her to me said it was probably a she since she was 6 and not dead when i got her.

So many factors...

Either way i am pretty upset...

Could be anything but just FYI you should never ever have an animals enclosure in sunlight, regardless of the fact that these are nocturnal animals the sun create a literal greenhouse in their enclosure causing dehydration easily.
That being said it doesn't seem to be the case, the abdomen doesn't look shriveled from that point of view and although the picture is by no means clear I doubt it's male. By 6 years it should have been sexually mature and the tibial hooks and pedipalps would be very visible, as well males abdomens are traditionally smaller. Given how fat this one is I have no reason to believe you have a male. When males die they sort of just whither away and this specimen is by no means withering away.

The fall could have caused some internal damage, but I doubt it, I would think you would have seen an immediate change, not a delayed one like you experienced.

You said you cleaned the house, was the animals enclosure ever exposed to fumes of any kind? Cleaning products, cigarettes, ect? That may be the culprit, but a bad feeder may also be a possibility
 

msbairan

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
11
Could be anything but just FYI you should never ever have an animals enclosure in sunlight, regardless of the fact that these are nocturnal animals the sun create a literal greenhouse in their enclosure causing dehydration easily.
That being said it doesn't seem to be the case, the abdomen doesn't look shriveled from that point of view and although the picture is by no means clear I doubt it's male. By 6 years it should have been sexually mature and the tibial hooks and pedipalps would be very visible, as well males abdomens are traditionally smaller. Given how fat this one is I have no reason to believe you have a male. When males die they sort of just whither away and this specimen is by no means withering away.

The fall could have caused some internal damage, but I doubt it, I would think you would have seen an immediate change, not a delayed one like you experienced.

You said you cleaned the house, was the animals enclosure ever exposed to fumes of any kind? Cleaning products, cigarettes, ect? That may be the culprit, but a bad feeder may also be a possibility
Sorry switching devices, that one was being ridiculous.

No cleaning products near her or smoke.

I left it out the enclosure out there for maybe twenty minutes just to give her a little temp boost... but, yeah, thanks for the tip. If I ever get the courage to have another T I will def not do that.

Only new thing was the crickets, which I am seeing the two I put in there yesterday she didn't eat. She ate 3 earlier this week. I just found the two from yesterday hiding in the substrate when I went to take more pics of her... so she did NOT eat yesterday...

Maybe she is about to molt? she hasn't molted in a year and a half. Now I feel terrible for messing with her a little thinking she was dead!

Maybe I am misdiagnosing this "death curl"?

T's are stressful! I'm raising the house temp to a solid 75, leaving her alone for 24 hours and praying she doesn't start to stink.
 
Last edited:

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
5,825
The camera in my phone is awful. But here are some more.
Thank you. I've asked because I wasn't able to figure out well from that first pic... but I agree with Haksilence, there's a lot of things to consider.

However as a pure detail your isn't the worst dead curl I've seen I have to say.
 

Chris LXXIX

ArachnoGod
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
5,825
Sorry switching devices, that one was being ridiculous.

No cleaning products near her or smoke.

I left it out the enclosure out there for maybe twenty minutes just to give her a little temp boost... but, yeah, thanks for the tip. If I ever get the courage to have another T I will def not do that.

Only new thing was the crickets, which I am seeing the two I put in there yesterday she didn't eat. She ate 3 earlier this week. I just found the two from yesterday hiding in the substrate when I went to take more pics of her... so she did NOT eat yesterday...

Maybe she is about to molt? she hasn't molted in a year and a half. Now I feel terrible for messing with her a little thinking she was dead!

Maybe I am misdiagnosing this "death curl"?

T's are stressful! I'm raising the house temp to a solid 75, leaving her alone for 24 hours and praying she doesn't start to stink.
Don't say that, things like courage or else :)

I don't know if your issue is related to the crickets but I doubt that. In general issues comes from WC preys. Your seems a well fed Theraphosidae. I will wait before thinking about the worst. Keep the water dish full (but you know this of course) and keep us update Lady.
 

msbairan

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
11
Thank you for the positive thought! <3

I am absolutely keeping my fingers crossed. I really hope to walk past her enclosure and see a molt in the next day or so...

I will def keep you posted.
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
14,331
i cleaned the house
Did chemicals land in her area? Not that I would expect an overnight change from life to death mind you, but given the vague nature and from the surface a seemingly healthy T, that's all I can think of.

Her abdomen is large so unlikely that it would be dehydration. Aside from its body posture, it looks to be in good health, quite unusual.

You mentioned a fall, but w/out seeing it, unsure how much or how hard a fall it was. A description wouldn't help either, all subjective terms.

A web mat would be indication of an impending molt, and sometimes a bald spot on abdomen, or along the lateral sides of abdomen accompany the web mat.
 

msbairan

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
11
Could be anything but just FYI you should never ever have an animals enclosure in sunlight, regardless of the fact that these are nocturnal animals the sun create a literal greenhouse in their enclosure causing dehydration easily.
That being said it doesn't seem to be the case, the abdomen doesn't look shriveled from that point of view and although the picture is by no means clear I doubt it's male. By 6 years it should have been sexually mature and the tibial hooks and pedipalps would be very visible, as well males abdomens are traditionally smaller. Given how fat this one is I have no reason to believe you have a male. When males die they sort of just whither away and this specimen is by no means withering away.

The fall could have caused some internal damage, but I doubt it, I would think you would have seen an immediate change, not a delayed one like you experienced.

You said you cleaned the house, was the animals enclosure ever exposed to fumes of any kind? Cleaning products, cigarettes, ect? That may be the culprit, but a bad feeder may also be a possibility

Oh my gosh. I get what you are saying about the enclosure in sunlight. Sorry, not all there right now. Been a rough day already to come home to T looking not good to me at all. The area
I had been keeping her in had some sunlight but, not direct. She def wasnt cooking or anything. She had been there for days and had been fine. I check her water every day. Totally spaced...

If she bounces back I will def think carefully about her placement though as far as sunlight is concerned.
 

Tarantula20

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
93
A friend of mines A.anax was in a position nearly Identical to that when it molted upright so maybe that is the case, How long has she been in the death curl? If she is in fact passing or dead it could have been a parasite from the crickets. Good Luck:angelic:
 

bryverine

Arachnoangel
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
894
What kind of rock is it sitting on? It's not a heat rock, is it?

If it moves a bit and you have a nice full bowl of water, I'd say it could be premolt.
 

msbairan

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
11
Did chemicals land in her area? Not that I would expect an overnight change from life to death mind you, but given the vague nature and from the surface a seemingly healthy T, that's all I can think of.

Her abdomen is large so unlikely that it would be dehydration. Aside from its body posture, it looks to be in good health, quite unusual.

You mentioned a fall, but w/out seeing it, unsure how much or how hard a fall it was. A description wouldn't help either, all subjective terms.

A web mat would be indication of an impending molt, and sometimes a bald spot on abdomen, or along the lateral sides of abdomen accompany the web mat.
No chemicals anywhere near her, that is for sure.

So when i was sure she was dead i gently lifted her to inspect her for any noticeable injury or anything and i did notice a bald spot on the bottom of her abdomen. I dont handle her with my hands i use chopsticks to super gently coral or nudge her when I need to move her. Really only time that happens is when I am changing substrate.

The past few days she had been moving that dirt in the spot she is now laying in. The paper towel is from her travel carrier and she was holding onto it for dear life when I put her in her day to day enclosure. So i let her have it for the time being. When I had come back she had incorporated it into a web mat and then started to mess with the dirt in that little area.

I shouldnt have touched her... I am a...crazy person who jumps to conclusions.

Stiiiilllll, she is a really tough little T. She made it across country and survived that fall (seemingly).

I think she will molt and I can rest easy for another year and a half when she does it again.
 

msbairan

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
11
What kind of rock is it sitting on? It's not a heat rock, is it?

If it moves a bit and you have a nice full bowl of water, I'd say it could be premolt.
She isnt moving but she has water.

Its not a heating rock. the white is a clean paper towel she claimed over a week ago and the gray is her water bowl.

Fingers crossed.
 

msbairan

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
11
A friend of mines A.anax was in a position nearly Identical to that when it molted upright so maybe that is the case, How long has she been in the death curl? If she is in fact passing or dead it could have been a parasite from the crickets. Good Luck:angelic:
I would say about 24 hours. I thought it was a weird position this time yesterday when I saw her and figured I would wait until today to see if she moved. Today same position. I think she may have molted upright last time she molted but I am not sure. She acted weird for a few days and when I came home there was a molt next to her. The molt was upright though if i remember correctly. So maybe this is just her way...
 

KezyGLA

Arachnoking
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
3,026
Hey,

Sorry you lost such a beautiful T. :(

But heres a couple of things I have been thinking about...

After looking at the photos that you have provided I would say that the death was more than likely the result of some sort of fall.

When your brother dropped the T in the travel container it may have caused internal damage.

.. But I also notice how little substrate you have in the enclosure. It may have taken a fall while climbing the enclosure walls.

I am assuming you emptied the enclosure when travelling and set it up again when you unpacked?

Ts love to pace around and climb the walls when put into a new environment so this may have been a fall from a climb.

.. Another theory is the direct sunlight. Although the T does not appear to have a shrunken or shrivelled abdomen indicating dehydration, high temperatures can stress a T quite easily. Having not enough substrate provided means the T can't burrow to get away from the heat as they would in the wild. It seems like it has been in direct sunlight for some period of time too.

.. Leaving a Ts enclosure outside can be dangerous too. There may have been some sort of spraying going on nearby that could have harmed your gal.

Never the less you T was beautiful and it is such a shame to see it in this way. :( Sorry for your loss.
 

msbairan

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
11
Hey,

Sorry you lost such a beautiful T. :(

But heres a couple of things I have been thinking about...

After looking at the photos that you have provided I would say that the death was more than likely the result of some sort of fall.

When your brother dropped the T in the travel container it may have caused internal damage.

.. But I also notice how little substrate you have in the enclosure. It may have taken a fall while climbing the enclosure walls.

I am assuming you emptied the enclosure when travelling and set it up again when you unpacked?

Ts love to pace around and climb the walls when put into a new environment so this may have been a fall from a climb.

.. Another theory is the direct sunlight. Although the T does not appear to have a shrunken or shrivelled abdomen indicating dehydration, high temperatures can stress a T quite easily. Having not enough substrate provided means the T can't burrow to get away from the heat as they would in the wild. It seems like it has been in direct sunlight for some period of time too.

.. Leaving a Ts enclosure outside can be dangerous too. There may have been some sort of spraying going on nearby that could have harmed your gal.

Never the less you T was beautiful and it is such a shame to see it in this way. :( Sorry for your loss.

Thank you she really is or was... a very beautiful T. I took her on two years ago as a favor, that was supposed to be temporary, turned permanent and never expected to fall so in love with this little spider lady. It breaks my heart to think that in my ignorance I may have shortened her life.

I am going to take a picture of this "sunny spot" she was in because it was really very indirect and she was there about a week until I moved her. It wasn't until I moved her last night that she got into this position. It was just sunnier to me in comparison to the other places I have kept her but, who knows... It may have been too much. Also there was this bonkers storm last night. when I saw her hunker down like that last night I even commented, "She is getting really cozy, maybe she senses the storm?"

I put her outside for roughly 20 minutes this morning in an attempt to warm her up... but, thought better of it and brought her in.

I left her enclosure exactly as it was before I moved. I was planning on changing everything this weekend. I wrapped the enclosure and put it to the side for our travels, when we stopped for the night at hotels I put her in her own enclosure with some water so she could relax for the evening (the drive was very stressful for her in the travel case) and when I got to my new home just put her in the enclosure again. She seemed fine, really perfectly normal for this past week and a half. She was dropped about a week an a half ago, made it through the next two days of the drive ate and drank water, at when we arrived and moved normally about her enclosure for the next WEEK AND A HALF. She seemed perfectly fine until yesterday afternoon/evening.

Either way the sun, the fall, i dont know... feel really really bad about it.

Still hoping she pulls a Lazarus and in the next day or so molts and everything is ok in the world... but, if she doesnt... you know... sad things...
 
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