my first two scorps

[skinheaddave]

Recently, I have noticed decreased fluorescence in one of the specimens I keep under blacklight during the night hours.

If the scorpion flouresces then it means UV light is getting through. I routinely investigate my scorpions using a UV light shone through glass -- they don't glow as strongly, but they still glow.

Unfortunately I cannot remember the source of the information on UV light causing blindness but I remember thinking it was very credible at the time. Certainly the clouding of the cuticle over the eyes due to UV light seems possible.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[alex]

They seem to be doing very well. Congrats.

 

[Phjinn]

Bl

hello everyone, this is my first time posting, and I am a new member to Arachnoboards!!!! I figured I might as well join a arachnid board since i'm boarding some emperors. Okay, I have a question regarding blacklight over exposure. When people say, do not expose a blacklight on your scorpions for a prolong period of time, how long are we talking? No more than like 3 hours a day? 1 hour? Also, I have read up on scorpions and have came to the conclusion on research that scorpions do 'not' reply on their eyes to see or even catch prey. Scorpions mainly used their eyes thousands of years ago to actually look at the stars to figure out their location. They use the sensors on their legs, pincers, and the bottom of there bodies. Anyways, the point of this is, even if exposure of a UV light will gradually (PAINLESSLY) cloud the cuticle over the eyes, why would that matter? Thank you, and I hope I didn't give the wrong impression that I don't care about my scorpion and want to hurt its eyes, haha.

I will post pictures soon hopefully, thank you.

-phjinn

 

[TTstinger]

The danger with constant UV exposure is two-fold. The first bit is simply aesthetics which is that they will lose their flourescence over time. This makes it hard to show people. The more important bit is that it can cause the cuticle over the eyes to become opaque -- effectively blinding the scorpion.

Cheers,
Dave

skinheaddave do you know of any web site that talk about the scorp glowing talents. Because from what I have read UV in no way hurts scorps and too add radiation has no effects on scorp. And I have never ever seen a scorp that did not glow anymore due too too much UV and at the zoo they had scorps under 24 UV lighting and they all seem to be doing just fine. so if you know of some good reading on this please let me know

 

[emperorking]

That subtrate looks way to dry. That cage needs 2 hides not just a water dish to hide under.

 

[thisgal]

Phjinn: scorps may not completely rely on their eyes, but if they didn't use them, they would be on the way to being evolutionarily (I made that word up) eliminated, just as our appendix is. They still use their eyes to help locate prey, and they still need them to differentiate between night and day.

Also, as far as blacklight exposure, I don't think there's any need to use one unless you're showing them off to someone for a few minutes, or the occasional awesome picture.

 

[Arlius]

Just limit the use of the blacklight to when you are actually viewing the scorpions, and you'll be fine (Hours dont matter). Just don't do it every day for prolonged periods. (Hours will eventually matter in this way)

As for prolonged exposure... scorpions can survive many hours a day in strong UV light, with no fading or damage to the cuticle. As for the zoo having the blacklights on 24/7, I would think they turn them off at night, unless you work there and know otherwise? Also, Im sure they have hides. Same as being in the shade on a sunny day folks, you wont get sunburned... (UV light has to be directed right at the scorpion, it has to have 'line of sight')

In the wild, more importantly the desert species, can get a decent amount of exposure often, but by no means is it 24hrs of it, and not every day as they dont come out of their scrapes/burrows every day.

If the scorpion actually flouresces more hours of the day than not, it will eventually fade. Keeping out of UV light for awhile will allow it to come back.

Bottom line though... its not going to kill your scorpion from overexposure (unless its directly exposed and its too hot, and you basically cook it... think of lying it in the sun unprotected...) It is not necessary to have black lights on all the time, and the full risk of it is not actually known (there IS risk, be sure of it), so just keep it to use for viewing. There is absolutely no reason to use one otherwise for scorpions. The heat factor is too low to be of value at the distance you should have the light from the cage. Red light heat lamps, ceramic heat lamps, heating pads all do a better job.

 

[skinheaddave]

I have never ever seen a scorp that did not glow anymore due too too much UV

Nor have I, though it has been mentioned before by individuals that I respect and trust. That being said, I've just started looking into some other aspects of UV and scorpions so I'll let everyone know when I have results.

They still use their eyes to help locate prey, and they still need them to differentiate between night and day.

The first function is pretty minimal, but the second is critically important to their circadian entrainment.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[cacoseraph]

Nor have I, though it has been mentioned before by individuals that I respect and trust. That being said, I've just started looking into some other aspects of UV and scorpions so I'll let everyone know when I have results.


The first function is pretty minimal, but the second is critically important to their circadian entrainment.

Cheers,
Dave

i'm almost positive i have read that in respectable sources too. i think in an article talking about the hyaline layer. any lost ability *should* come back on molt, in the case of non-adults.

i will say this though

i had a blacklight on my scorps for about a year... call it 12h a day.... and if they exhibited any reduction in flourescence under the blacklight it was not noticeable to me. granted... these guys all could hide and not be in direct black light if they wanted... but it still gives you a time frame... sort of.

 

[Bigboy]

This thread seems to have been hijacked, but in a good way. Great looking scorpions.

 

[skinheaddave]

these guys all could hide and not be in direct black light if they wanted... but it still gives you a time frame... sort of.

I have heard times down to a week and up to several months of constant exposure. I have a dead A.australis sitting under a blacklight now -- I'll let you know how that goes.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Thoth]

Not A scorp guy but did comes across some material in regard to the fluorescing of scorpions under UV light. Basically the fluorescing is caused by certain proteins in the exoskeleton which serve as a form of sun block. It becomes depleted with prolonged exposure (I've seen a couple of badly treated emps in a petstore which must have been under blacklight 24/7 and weren't glowing) but are restored to normal levels with a molt. Even with this protection some damage maybe caused by the UV exposure most commonly is protein crosslinking, which would cause the cloudiness on the eye covers as Skinheaddave mentioned (same can happen to us with prolonged exposure to UV there is clouding of the cornea and lens), as well as genetic damage, which may or may not be an issue don't know enough though about scorp physiology to state for sure. Also UV light can potentially be more harmful to scorplings than to adults just because it would be able to penetrate deeper.

Also depending on the bulb it maybe far more UV that the present in sunlight. Also aren't most scorps nocturnal so the avoid much of the UV exposure during the day. My two cents.

 

[TTstinger]

I really hope we all dig deeper in this issue and see what we can come up with. Because I do know that nuclear blast radiation has little to no effect on scorps just as with roaches. Now with that in mind UV is a form of radiation. so come on crackpots lets do some digging. oh and yes really there is no reason any way to keep black lights on them all day anyway. I really only use it when I am moving My A's from one tank to another much easier to see and grab.

 

[skinheaddave]

Thought I'd put some citations out there for those that are interested since this seems to be the topic du jour. There is, of course, some relevence to be found in both "The Biology of Scorpions" and "Scorpion Biology and Research."

Constantinou, C. & J.L. Cloudsley-Thompson (1985) Transpiration in Ultra-Violet Light from a Scorpion. Newsl. Br. arachnol. Soc. 44:7.

Fasel, A., P.-A. Muller, P. Suppan & E. Vauthey. (1997) Photoluminescence of the African scorpion "Pandinus imperator". Journal of Photochemistry and Photobiology B: Biology 39:96-98

Filshie, B.K. and Hadley, N.F (1979) Fine structure of the cuticle of the desert scorpion Hadrurus arizonensis. Tissue & Cell 11(2):249-262.

Frost L. D.R.Butler, B. O'Dell & V. Fet (2001): A coumarin as a fluorescent compound in scorpion cuticle - In: Fet, V. & P. A. Selden (eds.). Scorpions 2001. In Memoriam Gary A. Polis. Burnham Beeches, Bucks: British Arachnological Society:365-368

Kloock, C.T. (2005) Aerial insects avoid fluorescing scorpions. Euscorpius 21: 1- 9. (http://www.science.marshall.edu/fet/euscorpius/p2005_21.pdf)

Lawrence, R.F. (1954). Fluorescence in Arthropoda. Journal Ent. Soc. S. Africa 17(2):167-170

Lourenco W.R. & J.L. Cloudsley-Thompson (1996): The evolutionary significance of colour, colour patterns and fluorescence in scorpions – Revue Suisse Zoologie, Vol. hors serie: 449-458

Stachel, S.J., S. Stockwell & D.L. Van Vranken. (1999) The fluorescence of scorpions and cataractogenesis. Chemistry & Biology 6:531-539.

Delve away.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[skinheaddave]

Okay, so I got results much quicker than I expected. In fact, there was visible fading within 24 hours.

I took the headlamp portion of my field hunting lamp and put it so that both of the 24-LED UV heads (http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/mr16_5mmLED.htm) were directed at a dead specimen of Androctonus australis that was lying on some tissue paper. The LEDs were only a couple inches away. I took another specimen and placed it in the same room but away from the light so as not to be exposed. After 76 hours I removed them and took pictures. That being said, it was pretty obvious after 24 hours that the one specimen was not glowing nearly as brightly. In the picture of the underside, you can see how it still fluoresces where it was flat against the paper in the middle/front and in portions of the metasoma (some of this is hard to pick up in the pics but can be seen in real life) but where the reflected UV from the tissue paper could get to it, it also shows a reduction in fluorescence (sides of the mesosoma etc.). It should be noted that this does not necesarily translate directly to live scorpions, as it eliminates the possibility of regeneration -- but since the formation of the molecules is part of the hardening of the exoskeleton, it is unlikely in my mind that a fully cured scorpion could regenerate its fluorescence without a moult, especially in light of the anecdotal evidence out there.

Cheers,
Dave