My Australian non-T primitives

Ftang5

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Not to be that person, but all tarantulas are mygalomorphs. 🌠
Oh.... i have been using that term incorrectly then. I thought they were therasopods. Then whats the term for trapdoors, funnel webs and the like?
 

RezonantVoid

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Oh.... i have been using that term incorrectly then. I thought they were therasopods. Then whats the term for trapdoors, funnel webs and the like?
Theraphosidae is a subfamily of Mygalmorphae, we just tend to coin any non-tarantula primitive as Mygalmorph to differentiate the 2
 

Ungoliant

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Oh.... i have been using that term incorrectly then. I thought they were therasopods. Then whats the term for trapdoors, funnel webs and the like?
Mygalomorphs are an infraorder (smaller than an order but bigger than a family or superfamily) that comprises Theraphosidae (tarantulas) and most of the other extant "primitive" families of spiders, such as funnel-web spiders and trapdoor spiders. Most other spiders are araneomorphs and are often called "true spiders" (even though both groups are spiders).

Certain mygalomorph traits are considered more "primitive," because they appeared early in the evolution of spiders and haven't changed much from those of early spiders. Certain araneomorph traits are deemed more "advanced," because they appeared more recently and have undergone notable change from ancestral traits. However, you can't really say that araneomorphs as a whole are "more advanced" or "more evolved" than mygalomorphs, as they are both equally separated in time from the common ancestor of spiders.

An easy way to distinguish between mygalomorphs and araneomorphs is the way the jaws and fangs move when in use. Mygalomorph fangs move in parallel, swinging up along an arc before a strike. Araneomorph fangs move in opposition to each other, resembling pincers. Some good illustrations that show the difference:




Theraphosidae is a subfamily of Mygalmorphae, we just tend to coin any non-tarantula primitive as Mygalmorph to differentiate the 2
Taxonomically speaking, Theraphosidae is a family. (Anything ending in -idae is a family. Anything ending in -inae is a subfamily.)
 

Ftang5

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Mygalomorphs are an infraorder (smaller than an order but bigger than a family or superfamily) that comprises Theraphosidae (tarantulas) and most of the other extant "primitive" families of spiders, such as funnel-web spiders and trapdoor spiders. Most other spiders are araneomorphs and are often called "true spiders" (even though both groups are spiders).

Certain mygalomorph traits are considered more "primitive," because they appeared early in the evolution of spiders and haven't changed much from those of early spiders. Certain araneomorph traits are deemed more "advanced," because they appeared more recently and have undergone notable change from ancestral traits. However, you can't really say that araneomorphs as a whole are "more advanced" or "more evolved" than mygalomorphs, as they are both equally separated in time from the common ancestor of spiders.

An easy way to distinguish between mygalomorphs and araneomorphs is the way the jaws and fangs move when in use. Mygalomorph fangs move in parallel, swinging up along an arc before a strike. Araneomorph fangs move in opposition to each other, resembling pincers. Some good illustrations that show the difference:






Taxonomically speaking, Theraphosidae is a family. (Anything ending in -idae is a family. Anything ending in -inae is a subfamily.)
I understand the differences between araneo and mygalmorphs but i find it odd that a very clearly distinct set of spiders is classed the same as theraphso's. Are we sure there isnt a seperate group for the waxy-carapaced funnel webs & trap doors?
 

Ungoliant

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I understand the differences between araneo and mygalmorphs but i find it odd that a very clearly distinct set of spiders is classed the same as theraphso's. Are we sure there isnt a seperate group for the waxy-carapaced funnel webs & trap doors?
Currently they are all mygalomorphs, just placed in different families.

This is similar to how araneomorph families have great diversity.
 

RezonantVoid

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Guys, Yukinoshita had her big night last night, and i was just in time to see the end of it. Someone's gonna be insanely shiny in the next few days
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Borttor

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Super stoked to be receiving them, but please no rush! You've had it that close with the fires, please take the time to get everything back under control there first ;)
Also had a reply from my funnelweb dude down south and he agrees that the webs you saw definitely are more like an Atrax species. He needs photos to confirm, but glad my hunch was correct


There's many times where I say to myself "DAYUM that's pretty, I wish I could have that!", But in general I feel very happy with the variety I can get now
1 I applaud you Brave than I am I'm just going to respond to this message thank you for sharing that was awesome and a lot of spiders are just gorgeous
I've been asked to make this thread a few times, but the sheer quantity and shyness of my specimens has made me procrastinate on it for a while. But hey, Ive got a 4 hour car trip and a bunch of elusive specimens Ive finally photographed, so let's get down to it today.

I will try and rattle off certain groups in seperate responses, starting with my trapdoors and finishing with my medically significant species.

The following spiders are only a pinch out of the salt bowl so to speak. There are literally hundreds of mygalomorph species here i'd love a shot at keeping, but realistically that's not possible. However, through a lot of effort and just under 2 years, I think I'm pretty happy with the variety Ive got so far. From regular open hole dwellers and tube builders to carefully concealed trapdoors and species that just gave up being neat and make huge web messes, there's something for every spider enthusiast to enjoy (hopefully).

So, now that the grand speech is over, lets begin!
Thank you so much for sharing your spiders are absolutely beautiful by the way the new arrival I'm in 100% agreement with you once that mud is off she's going to be beautiful.
 

RezonantVoid

Hollow Knight
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It looks like if p.irminia was a mygalmorph! Gorgeous!
She molted yesterday and once she's hardened 100% ill show you how awesome the stripes look now. There should be a couple of these still available on the insectory btw, i bought the 6th one left
 

RezonantVoid

Hollow Knight
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I understand the differences between araneo and mygalmorphs but i find it odd that a very clearly distinct set of spiders is classed the same as theraphso's. Are we sure there isnt a seperate group for the waxy-carapaced funnel webs & trap doors?
I was rereading this, some trapdoors like those in Barychelidae are so much like tarantulas in appearance and characteristics that a novice entemologist would easily mistake them as a T without prior research. They can climb cmooth surfaces and stridulate, and the latter characteristic isnt limited to just them and Theraphosidae as ive had bearded wishbone males that could quite audibly hiss too. On closer inspection, we can find multiple similarities between each family other than just appearance
 

Ftang5

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I was rereading this, some trapdoors like those in Barychelidae are so much like tarantulas in appearance and characteristics that a novice entemologist would easily mistake them as a T without prior research. They can climb cmooth surfaces and stridulate, and the latter characteristic isnt limited to just them and Theraphosidae as ive had bearded wishbone males that could quite audibly hiss too. On closer inspection, we can find multiple similarities between each family other than just appearance
Mabye barchychelidae is the "found link" between Theraphso's and the waxy carapaced, smoother bodied and usually more agressive trapdoors and funnelwebs...
 

RezonantVoid

Hollow Knight
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Mabye barchychelidae is the "found link" between Theraphso's and the waxy carapaced, smoother bodied and usually more agressive trapdoors and funnelwebs...
Nemessidae and some Idiopids like the shiny Arbanitis also have very densely packed hair on the carapace instead of if being shiny, and the ultra sensitive foot hair on the pedipalps. I would probably call Nemessidae the closest "bridge genus"
 

Arthroverts

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"Ill try and get that sling update out before new years"

Pffftt what a joke, im just on that level of lazy right now lol.

But now the update is here! Typed out on an even buggier mobile keyboard and now with more spelling mistakes than ever before!

So lets rattle off the Arbanitis. Since announcing the sling info block ive had 2 new sacs laid and hatched, with a 3rd (i think) on the way within a few weeks. Arbanitis sp. Kempsey Black dropped me an absolutely huge, nearly golf ball sized eggsac. Of course since this sac was from a WC mother, half of them will be returned to the wild at the end of February, 25% will be kept for breeding colonies and the other 25% will likely be distributed to fellow hobbyists or sold in trios. As far as Arbanitis go, sp. Kempsey Black is a mid gold species with, as expected, extremely dark abdomen and leg colouration. The slings however have the characteristic banded abdomen. These ones are very intelligent, trying to communicate with me via web messages on side of their mother's enclosure. View attachment 332599
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Very interesting indeed.

Next up, my largest and oldest sling colonies, Arbanitis sp. Gold. One of these colonies is over a year old and currently the average size is 5-8mm total length. Im closely studying the behavior of this colony, but ill share that another time. We are here for the pictures! Here's the 2 oldest colonies with their mini tubes
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Believe me, i have easily another 80 more slings from this species. This was my first ever breeding project, and an entire batch went to Minibeast wildlife as a future breeding colony. This is important as this particular species is now 100% functionally extinct. I hate to start getting all high and mighty, but saving this species is probably my favourite accomplishment of all time.

Last Arbanitis sling colony is Banded tube webs. Super sadly, their mother died of seemingly natural causes only a few weeks after they hatched. The sac yield was much smaller than anticipated, a few will go back to @Rhino1 and the rest will stay here as a breeding colony. But look how adorable their little tubes are!
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For whatever reason they prefer to build against the plastic instead of the provided rocks and sticks.

Seqocrypta Jakara are both growing well and building bigger lids.
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The 3 Stanwellia wishbones are also doing great. Each is at about 15mm DLS View attachment 332608
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Idiosoma sp. sling from @Dave1969 is doing okay, dont see much action from it as it takes forever to catch food here it is during a recent rehouse.
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Hadronyche Levittgreggae sling is still as chubby as ever
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And finally for the slings (i think) is Arbanitis sp. Tambourine 2, the Drawbridge trapdoor sling. Doing great and eating well

View attachment 332614

Apologies that this took so long, ive had an absolutely massive workload on my plate as of late, but glad i got around to it.

What should i do next? Species that i've kept in the past but not currently? It'd be nice to pay em tribute. Ive also got a project im working on which ill tease later tonight, as well as (hopefully) a youtube channel in the works ;)

Thanks for reading!

So as mentioned i have pretty big project i hope to unveil in thr next couple of weeks when some more supplies arrive. Its named Project "Crimstone V1", and these 2 pictures are the only hint im giving for now. It may not look like it, but they give away ALOT
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Apologies if I missed the grand reveal on this but...what happened??

Thanks,

Arthroverts
 

RezonantVoid

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Apologies if I missed the grand reveal on this but...what happened??

Thanks,

Arthroverts
All good lol it was just an a post about all the slings i had on me at that stage, since most of my colonies didnt get a highlight on page 1. Unfortunately though i lost 2/3 Stanwellia slings to a freak mold outbreak that came out of nowhere, and recently purchased a replacement.

Some other unfortunate news is that project Crimstone may have to be scrapped as i got ripped off and my red moss seeds aold to me were actually just lawn grass, so i dont have any way of getting red our warm coloured covering foliage. However, how a crimson desert is not out of the equation just yet, once i csn eradicate this mold i will be able to remake alot of enclosures.

Also getting perhaps the most important specimen in my entire collection soon thx to the unbelievably kind and helpful @Oompoofishy , does anybody wanna have a guess on which species i will be trying to breed in the future?
 

Arthroverts

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All good lol it was just an a post about all the slings i had on me at that stage, since most of my colonies didnt get a highlight on page 1. Unfortunately though i lost 2/3 Stanwellia slings to a freak mold outbreak that came out of nowhere, and recently purchased a replacement.

Some other unfortunate news is that project Crimstone may have to be scrapped as i got ripped off and my red moss seeds aold to me were actually just lawn grass, so i dont have any way of getting red our warm coloured covering foliage. However, how a crimson desert is not out of the equation just yet, once i csn eradicate this mold i will be able to remake alot of enclosures.

Also getting perhaps the most important specimen in my entire collection soon thx to the unbelievably kind and helpful @Oompoofishy , does anybody wanna have a guess on which species i will be trying to breed in the future?
I meant in regards to Project Crimstone V1, ha ha. I'm assuming you meant to remake all your enclosures in that Crimson theme then?
Sorry to hear about getting ripped off like that, that's always a terrible feeling. Also sad to hear about your Stanwellia, hope you can get this mold outbreak under control here soon.

Ooh...Xamiatus sp.?

Thanks,

Arthroverts
 

Dave1969

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All good lol it was just an a post about all the slings i had on me at that stage, since most of my colonies didnt get a highlight on page 1. Unfortunately though i lost 2/3 Stanwellia slings to a freak mold outbreak that came out of nowhere, and recently purchased a replacement.

Some other unfortunate news is that project Crimstone may have to be scrapped as i got ripped off and my red moss seeds aold to me were actually just lawn grass, so i dont have any way of getting red our warm coloured covering foliage. However, how a crimson desert is not out of the equation just yet, once i csn eradicate this mold i will be able to remake alot of enclosures.

Also getting perhaps the most important specimen in my entire collection soon thx to the unbelievably kind and helpful @Oompoofishy , does anybody wanna have a guess on which species i will be trying to breed in the future?
My guess. P. Eunice. Did I win?
 

RezonantVoid

Hollow Knight
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My guess. P. Eunice. Did I win?
No lol its non T primitive

Btw id start a conversation but my inbox is full. Do you still have your male Bradleyi? I have just worked out thx to an update from Spidentify that all the males i presumed were Bradleyi, were in fact, M.Pruinosa males instead. That is why none of my pairings were successful except for 1, which must have just happened to be a Pruinosa Female instead. If your male survives pairing, im happy to take him and give him a shot with my females
 

Arthroverts

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@RezonantVoid, what about my guess? Was I at least near the mark?

I've been PMing you about the interview BTW, now I know why the messages aren't reaching you. Not trying to be pushy, but any chance you'll get it cleared out soon?

Thanks,

Arthroverts
 

RezonantVoid

Hollow Knight
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@RezonantVoid, what about my guess? Was I at least near the mark?

I've been PMing you about the interview BTW, now I know why the messages aren't reaching you. Not trying to be pushy, but any chance you'll get it cleared out soon?

Thanks,

Arthroverts
My dearest apologies, i sent off my last response last month but i had poor service at the time so it may not have come through. I will get back to you later this evening for the last question, sorry its taken so long!

I honestly wish like nothing else it was Xamiatus of some kind, but its a male of a certain species i already have. Nemesiidae is a reasonably closely related family though so a decent first guess
 

Dave1969

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No lol its non T primitive

Btw id start a conversation but my inbox is full. Do you still have your male Bradleyi? I have just worked out thx to an update from Spidentify that all the males i presumed were Bradleyi, were in fact, M.Pruinosa males instead. That is why none of my pairings were successful except for 1, which must have just happened to be a Pruinosa Female instead. If your male survives pairing, im happy to take him and give him a shot with my females
He's webbed himself in at the moment (about a week and a half). Not sure how long I should leave him be. I want him to have a shot with my two females before it's too late. One of them (sand and coir peat) is settled in and feeding with an open side to her burrow. The other (coir peat alone) has locked herself in. I was really hoping to get a couple of them from a fellow who had been feeding them to his chickens (fell through with the Covid lockdown). If I can give him a shot and he survives I'd only be too happy to send him up.

When you say that you think a couple of your males could be M. pruinosa where did they come from? M. pruinosa is supposed to be restricted to the tropics and particularly above Carpentaria in NT (esp. Darwin) and WA. I haven't looked at your photos in a while, but from memory, I had suspicions at least one of them might be M. occatoria.
 

RezonantVoid

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He's webbed himself in at the moment (about a week and a half). Not sure how long I should leave him be. I want him to have a shot with my two females before it's too late. One of them (sand and coir peat) is settled in and feeding with an open side to her burrow. The other (coir peat alone) has locked herself in. I was really hoping to get a couple of them from a fellow who had been feeding them to his chickens (fell through with the Covid lockdown). If I can give him a shot and he survives I'd only be too happy to send him up.

When you say that you think a couple of your males could be M. pruinosa where did they come from? M. pruinosa is supposed to be restricted to the tropics and particularly above Carpentaria in NT (esp. Darwin) and WA. I haven't looked at your photos in a while, but from memory, I had suspicions at least one of them might be M. occatoria.
The range is definitely atypical, but Spidentify does show a few dots of them being recorded down south around where mine came from (20 minutes west of Coffs at my spider megaspot, Coramba). While they all had a smidge of pale blue, the main feature was the white patch the blue surrounded, whereas Bradleyi seem to have just dark shiny blue. At the very least, none of the males were Occatoria for sure, but they may have also been Insignis (not enough info to confirm). Not gonna lie, your male is the first true Bradleyi id seen a clear photo of. My females are absolutely enormous though, so they have to be either Bradleyi or Occatoria
 
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