My 1st instar LP

[AmysAnimals]

So my little LP is finally in premolt. Let's hope it has a healthy molt!

 

[mmfh]

Good luck on the molt. Little ones that small make me so nervous.

 

[Legion09]

looks like my little lp guy....waiting for him to molt as well...who knows when though..lol

 

[XLRX8]

Looks just like my LP Is that black spot the eye cluster? Mine has a similar looking spot on its abdomen. It is not eating so I was wondering if it was going to molt? I'm sure I have read about dark spots being a sign of molting somewhere?

 

[AmysAnimals]

Yes the black spot are its eyes. =P It also has black on its abdomen which is an good indication it's about to molt, in this situation. It was yellow for the longest time. I didn't feed mine. I was advised against feeding first instars. Just wait until they molt. Keep the humidity up and keep it warm.

 

[Legion09]

I don't usually post pics in anyone's threads...but I thought this was a good one to illustrate the topic..

 

[AmysAnimals]

I would have had that picture of mine bigger but since I was posting on my phone at the time it would not let me. I had to do the smallest one .

Is yours first instar?

 

[Legion09]

Truthfully, I'm not sure...it's only about 1/4" at the moment. I got him from Ken the Bug Guy here in town but I had my kids and wife with me and they were starting to get antsy and tired, so I took the 5 dollar deal and we left...didn't get to ask. :-\

 

[Stan Schultz]

So my little LP is finally in premolt. Let's hope it has a healthy molt! ...

Just so you know:

European arachnologists use a different system for describing the developmental stages of spiders than those of us in the New World, but they seldom use the term "instar," so I assume you're using the N.A. system of nomenclature, proposed in 1987 by M. F. Downes.

WARNING: INCOMING, UNABASHED, SELF-SERVING REFERENCE!
If this sort of thing offends you, please move to the next post in this thread, or to the next thread.​

I quote the following passage from page 39 of TKG3 to describe the system with tarantulas.

Using Downes' system, we call the structure laid by the female, an egg. This egg is a mass of nutritive substances (yolk and others) with a nucleus, enclosed in a membrane deposited by the mother as a sort of factory installed packaging, called the chorion, and roughly equivalent to an eggshell. At this stage, an egg resembles a yellow to cream colored, milky bead or small ball. If the egg is fertilized and the embryo develops, it will eventually shed the chorion. This is the act of hatching or eclosion. Because the chorion is not produced by the developing embryo, it is generally considered to not be the baby spider's skin or exoskeleton. Therefore, this shedding of the chorion is not considered to be ecdysis or a molt and the cast off chorion is not considered to be an exuvium.

After casting off the chorion, the developing spider is called a postembryo. At this stage it appears very much like a mite glued to the egg (a description used by Dr. R. G. Breene and others). Although it may be able to move its appendages, it is certainly not able to crawl around. It is living entirely on the nutrition stored in the egg. Because this wasn't a true molt the term instar does not apply here.

Eventually the baby tarantula will molt its exoskeleton. Because this cast-off skin is an actual exoskeleton made by the developing embryo, the process is properly called ecdysis or molting, and the cast-off skin is called a molt or exuvium. Because this is the first such exoskeleton cast- off by the baby, this is the first molt. And, after the baby has cast off this first exuvium, it is in its 1st instar.

The terms baby and spiderling are not officially sanctioned terms for any particular stages in a spider's development. However, enthusiasts ordinarily use baby as the vernacular term for the developing spider from postembryo through several succeeding instars, and spiderling as the vernacular term for the developing tarantula from approximately the 4th instar until it is one-fourth to one-third grown. There are no clear endpoints for these terms (except, of course hatching and the ultimate molt, see below) and there is great overlap in their usage. They are therefore sometimes nearly impossible to distinguish from one another, especially in colloquial discussions. Additionally, in the course of casual discussion or writing (e.g., in Internet forum postings) spiderling is often shortened to s'ling or merely sling.

In some species the spiderling may be able to crawl around in the 2nd instar, in others not. Most species of spiders subsist solely on the stored yolk during this period, but we now know that a few precocious tarantulas begin active feeding on their brood mates during the 2nd instar. See the illustration on page 286.

Over the next two instars most, if not all, spiderlings become mobile, finish consuming all of the stored yolk on which they subsist, and begin their lives as predacious carnivores. Most tarantula spiderlings emerge from the eggsac during their 2nd instar and look like actual spiders from the 3rd instar onwards.

END WARNING​

Thus, if your baby tarantula is actively moving around and eating it is at least second instar, and based on what I could discern in your photo, possibly even 3rd instar. Regardless, good luck to it on it's next molt.

Enjoy your precocious, little, 8-legged wonder!

 

[Hobo]

^
It is indeed a first instar tarantula, or the instar before they become fully fledged, predaceous hunters.
It was mistakenly shipped which was the subject of this thread here (there are also clearer, larger pictures of the spider): http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?231167-My-LP-is-here!-Take-a-look!

 

[AmysAnimals]

I would have a better, larger picture but like I said before it was sent from my phone and was too large so I had to choose the smallest option. My LP is first instar, I don't know about Legions though. I don't think Ken the Bug Guy would purposely sell a first instar to someone.

 

[Legion09]

I would have a better, larger picture but like I said before it was sent from my phone and was too large so I had to choose the smallest option. My LP is first instar, I don't know about Legions though. I don't think Ken the Bug Guy would purposely sell a first instar to someone.

Yeah...I don't know...slipped my mind to ask due to situation. But I thought the pic would be good for the discussion in the thread about the black spot on the abdomen as I happened to have a larger, clearer pic at hand and I know uploading on a phone is kind of fickle in most forums. ^_~

If it is a 1i, then it doesn't have much longer to be one...it already actively hunts according to Ken's wife. They had just fed it pinheads before my purchase...and while I have no pinheads on my side of town, it did attach itself to a small piece of mealworm I put in there before. So it's eating, or was at least...hasn't been hungry for about 5 days.

 

[le-thomas]

Yeah...I don't know...slipped my mind to ask due to situation. But I thought the pic would be good for the discussion in the thread about the black spot on the abdomen as I happened to have a larger, clearer pic at hand and I know uploading on a phone is kind of fickle in most forums. ^_~

If it is a 1i, then it doesn't have much longer to be one...it already actively hunts according to Ken's wife. They had just fed it pinheads before my purchase...and while I have no pinheads on my side of town, it did attach itself to a small piece of mealworm I put in there before. So it's eating, or was at least...hasn't been hungry for about 5 days.

Your spider is not first instar.

 

[BrettG]

Yea,if Ken sold it it is a 2i at least. And color me amazed at the amount of Az people finally starting to show up around here.All it took was Ken to show up before anyone got any interest.....And Amy GL with the LP,you will be amazed at the differences once it molts.

 

[Legion09]

Yea,if Ken sold it it is a 2i at least. And color me amazed at the amount of Az people finally starting to show up around here.All it took was Ken to show up before anyone got any interest.....And Amy GL with the LP,you will be amazed at the differences once it molts.

Fortunate timing to say the least...my wife got my rose hair for me for Father's Day (well, 1.5 weeks before) and I'm the kind of person who does intense research on everything. Found this board, found Ken's shop through here, noticed it was here in Tucson, went to check it out and my love for these little guys just get's bigger.

 

[AmysAnimals]

Yea,if Ken sold it it is a 2i at least. And color me amazed at the amount of Az people finally starting to show up around here.All it took was Ken to show up before anyone got any interest.....And Amy GL with the LP,you will be amazed at the differences once it molts.

Thanks! =)

 

[Stan Schultz]

^
It is indeed a first instar tarantula, or the instar before they become fully fledged, predaceous hunters.
It was mistakenly shipped which was the subject of this thread here (there are also clearer, larger pictures of the spider): http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?231167-My-LP-is-here!-Take-a-look!

I'm still very dubious. Check out these photos. (All photos by Tabbie Norton, one of the photo-contributors for TKG3. A tip o' the ol' hat and many thanks to Tabbie for a job well done! Used with permission. Click or right-click the thumbnails for larger versions. Click those larger versions to see an original sized image.)

Eggs. No legs, no ambulation. Living entirely off stored yolk. No bristles.


Postembryo, a.k.a., "eggs with legs." Can move their legs but can't crawl. Do not eat, living completely off stored yolk within their bodies (hence their round, bloated shape). No bristles.


First instar. Can roll around a little, but are not truly ambulatory. Do not eat, living off stored yolk within their bodies. Very, very rarely have been reported cannibalizing their siblings, but only if they get too close. Only a very few, sparsely placed, almost invisible bristles.


Second instar. Fully ambulatory, beginning to hunt and feed even though a little yolk may still be present. Cannibalism a distinct possibility, sometimes even common. Bristles much more numerous and quite obvious, but a patch of urticating bristles is still lacking.


Third instar. Fully functional tarantula. Walks, hunts, eats, cannibalizes, defecates. Lots of fully formed bristles, well developed patch of urticating bristles.


While these are photos of Grammostola rosea eggs and babies, both Grammostola and Lasiodora belong in the same subfamily, Theraphosinae, and almost certainly resemble each other very closely in embryology and development. Development of tarantulas belonging to other subfamilies (e.g., Aviculariinae, Selenocosmiinae) may be slightly different because of greater divergence during evolution.

For reference, I am attaching a copy of AmysAnimals' photo. Note that this copy has had the resolution increased (96 ppi to 120 ppi) and has been resized from 240X320 px to 1500X2000 px to smooth out the image, and it has been cropped to 750X1000 px to focus on the subject. Beyond this, the image itself has not been doctored (e.g., pixels added or removed, or proportions changed).



Now, which of Tabbie's photos does it most closely resemble? First instar, second instar, or third instar? Even if you accuse me of doctoring the photo (which I freely admit I did to enhance it), it doesn't have the chubby, short-legged, preambulatory body habitus of the first instar. It's at least as far developed as the second instar, and possibly third instar (Is that a patch of urticating bristles or just the darkening due to premolt?), even allowing for the specific differences in L. parahybana development compared to that of G. rosea.

I rest my case.

 

[MrCrackerpants]

$5 for a Little Caesars pizza or $5 for an LP sling?

Such an easy choice.

Spider wins.

 

[ZergFront]

Oh wow! It's as small as my curly hair. It made me so nervous getting my first baby terrestrial. I'm glad for the posts that recommend a cricket drumstick or prekilled. A lot of the arboreal slings are pretty decent size when they can begin eating.

Have fun with the little one!

 

[Hobo]

I'm still very dubious. Check out these photos. (All photos by Tabbie Norton, one of the photo-contributors for TKG3. A tip o' the ol' hat and many thanks to Tabbie for a job well done! Used with permission. Click or right-click the thumbnails for larger versions. Click those larger versions to see an original sized image.)

Eggs. No legs, no ambulation. Living entirely off stored yolk. No bristles.


Postembryo, a.k.a., "eggs with legs." Can move their legs but can't crawl. Do not eat, living completely off stored yolk within their bodies (hence their round, bloated shape). No bristles.


First instar. Can roll around a little, but are not truly ambulatory. Do not eat, living off stored yolk within their bodies. Very, very rarely have been reported cannibalizing their siblings, but only if they get too close. Only a very few, sparsely placed, almost invisible bristles.


Second instar. Fully ambulatory, beginning to hunt and feed even though a little yolk may still be present. Cannibalism a distinct possibility, sometimes even common. Bristles much more numerous and quite obvious, but a patch of urticating bristles is still lacking.


Third instar. Fully functional tarantula. Walks, hunts, eats, cannibalizes, defecates. Lots of fully formed bristles, well developed patch of urticating bristles.


While these are photos of Grammostola rosea eggs and babies, both Grammostola and Lasiodora belong in the same subfamily, Theraphosinae, and almost certainly resemble each other very closely in embryology and development. Development of tarantulas belonging to other subfamilies (e.g., Aviculariinae, Selenocosmiinae) may be slightly different because of greater divergence during evolution.

For reference, I am attaching a copy of AmysAnimals' photo. Note that this copy has had the resolution increased (96 ppi to 120 ppi) and has been resized from 240X320 px to 1500X2000 px to smooth out the image, and it has been cropped to 750X1000 px to focus on the subject. Beyond this, the image itself has not been doctored (e.g., pixels added or removed, or proportions changed).

View attachment 105505

Now, which of Tabbie's photos does it most closely resemble? First instar, second instar, or third instar? Even if you accuse me of doctoring the photo (which I freely admit I did to enhance it), it doesn't have the chubby, short-legged, preambulatory body habitus of the first instar. It's at least as far developed as the second instar, and possibly third instar (Is that a patch of urticating bristles or just the darkening due to premolt?), even allowing for the specific differences in L. parahybana development compared to that of G. rosea.

I rest my case.

It's confusion over the names again (I think we've been through this in an email exchange and some thread someewhere). I meant was that it's what you have labelled as second instar. That is why I added "or the instar before they become fully fledged, predaceous hunters" after that.
And, like I said, there were numerous much larger, much clearer pics from the other thread posted of the exact same spider that is the subject of this thread.
I will quote one of those posts now:

I got a new container for the LP. Put some paper towel bits in there. I am going to moisten them in a second and put the little LP in it. Is it okay? I hope I am doing okay. The jar I think is perfect for it. Should I put a piece of fake plant in there too for hiding, or do they not care at 1st instar?

Here are more pictures, it looks wetter than it actually is in there. I'm sure it will dry out fast though, it's been pretty hot lately. Although today it's been nice.

It was tricky trying to get the little one into there but I managed.

Tell me if it's okay or should I add something else? Anymore tips? I'm open to learn more. =)

I'll quote the seller who posted in that thread, confirming the error.

We had a shipping snafu where the wrong LP were pulled from the incubator. It was a simple mistake and I should have not have left them where they were easily mistaken for what should have gone out. It is totally my fault. I have had a talk with Vic and Leon to make sure it will not happen again as well as rearranged the incubators (and my whole house for those who follow my FB lol)

The situation has been dealt with and those few effected have been generously compensated. If you are not directly effected please do not bug me (pun intended) about this.

Amy, your sling looks like it is doing great. It is a little fighter and I hope the best for it I think of the little guy/gal bouncing around the vial while shipping it is almost comical. She is so round like a little cream colored ball. Her brothers and sisters are partying minus a few. Please keep me updated on it

And finally, Here's a quote from someone who posted what you have labelled as second instar spiderlings next to a what you have labelled as third instar spiderling. Apparently this was from his LP sac.

Just took a picture of my LP sac. This is the difference between 1st and 2nd instar.

As you can plainly see, The tarantula in question is clearly a first instar (your second instar) or simply, the instar before they are fully functional tarantulas. We are all talking about the same stage of development.
Here is the link to the thread, just in case you want to see these posts in their natural habitat: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?231167-My-LP-is-here!-Take-a-look!

Nothing further, your Honor.